What Modular system did you go with and why?

[cebec]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Ha, ha. Those last three have been pretty notorious over the years.
I waited a loooong time for Cyndustries modules and a couple of Serge panels.
One mistake both made, which made the situation worse, was to estimate much faster delivery times than were obviously possible. And then to go underground when things went slower.
Never had a problem with Bruce at ModCan.
He was upfront and honest both times I ordered from him.
The first order i received much quicker than he had estimated.
The second order took longer, but he kept me informed all the way and gave me plenty of advance warning that the order had been held up.
I would still order from Serge, but used modules are always an option for me.

I've made three separate orders from Serge in the last two years and received my orders within 2 weeks of the estimated delivery date and always had excellent communication with Rex at STS. I think long or inaccurate delivery times with STS are a thing of the past. Customers are receiving their M-class M-odules (the new line) in weeks, now, not months, and Rex told me of a massive system that shipped to a customer in the Pyrenees on the precise day it was promised.

[Beermaster]

Rex is great to deal with and contact with him has always been good - I think the delay in my serge was partly my fault for not getting in contact with him for over a three year period. I have plans to add a red funstation to my my missing gaps as soon as I can raise the dough.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

Well maybe some experiences differ from others but the majority of people I've been in contact with say the same things about the last three on my list.

Beer

Really some great advice as far as time frames and communication. It definitely sounds like having a system (or two) built around differing formats will help to keep options open.

[chrisso]

Mixing different systems with different connectivity is OK, but I found the drawbacks outweighed the benefits. Connecting banana systems to others is particularly nightmare-ish.
Connecting between 1/4" and 1/8" is easier but adds to the spaghetti and complication.
In the end I would personally advise sticking with one connection standard and choosing that connection based on the appeal of the modules within it.
In other words, if you think you are going to like Serge, get into banana now with Serge, ModCan and Cyndustries.
If the DotCom system mostly appeals, get into 1/4" with DotCom, MOTM, Modcan B and any vintage 1/4" systems and forget about Serge, except as a separate system.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Mixing different systems with different connectivity is OK, but I found the drawbacks outweighed the benefits. Connecting banana systems to others is particularly nightmare-ish.
Connecting between 1/4" and 1/8" is easier but adds to the spaghetti and complication.
In the end I would personally advise sticking with one connection standard and choosing that connection based on the appeal of the modules within it.
In other words, if you think you are going to like Serge, get into banana now with Serge, ModCan and Cyndustries.
If the DotCom system mostly appeals, get into 1/4" with DotCom, MOTM, Modcan B and any vintage 1/4" systems and forget about Serge, except as a separate system.

Thanks Chrisso. The idea of option 'B' has definitely grabbed me so I think that is the direction I am headed in.

[Coyoteous]

I do think my MOTM kit purchase delivery times were somewhat unique. Of course, you hear about bad more than good - even if there is more good. I've certainly heard horror stories, especially for assembled modules. I've avoided Cyndustries because of bad press (and high prices). I think the MOTM kits would probably still be available, if the other Paul hadn't had a stroke (forgot his last name). And Larry Hendry's untimely death had an effect on things. He was the "heart" of the MOTM community.

Anyway, I'm happy with my system. I firmly believe MOTM quality is the best out there - truly military grade, and the filters are outstanding. I have 2 each of the 420, 440 and 490. My system is pretty much "bread and butter" modules (or would it be meat and potatoes?) - VCO, VCF, VCA, EG, LFO, RM, S&H, Noise, Lag, Mixer, Envelope Follower, Voltage Source and very few exotic/specialty modules. Many want their modules to all be in the same panel format, but I'd rather spent that re-paneling money on more modules (or food).

I say pick a core brand (MOTM, in my case) and go outside that for things you can't get there or for which you want a different variation (Synthesizers.com, Wiard and Blacet, in my case). For me, mixing 1/4" and 1/8" is not a big deal. I've been doing it for 30 years with 2600's, SEM's, Moog, Emu, etc. Do watch out for CV, gate, trigger and signal level differences between different manufacturers, especially +12/-12 vs. +15/-15 systems. Some use different EG max voltages and or peak to peak signal levels, too.

[Beermaster]

I can't knock the quality of the MOTM system at all - its is superb in fact the MOTM 440 lo pass is my FAV filter of all time. That being said no system offers the complete answer for me, there are modules from some that I prefer over others and unique stuff too.

Technosuarus - WHAT a System. The Octal-Subharmonic Gen is brill ! - The T-Res filter is so warm and organic - tho lacking V/8ve for each band - It has THE best ergonomic design with 6u of knob space and 3u jacks beneath but its SO full of features packed into the space eg. the VCO not only has attenuators for each of the waveform outputs, it has three FM inputs with attenuators, as well as the standard stuff you'd expect but so nicely laid out. I'd love to get another B system but its almost impssible to contact Jerg

[Jazzpunk]

Man, this is one sexy oscillator!

[Jazzpunk]

Speaking of oscillators, do most of you guys stick with oscillators from one company or do some of you mix them up?

Right now (based solely on audio demos as that's the only reference I have to go on), I feel like the sounds of the Modcan system would be a nice compliment to the Dotcom. How big a factor are the Modcan oscillators in this equation? Is one squarewave just as good as another in the modular world?

[chrisso]

Personally I feel they are workhorse units and very similar from system to system.
(I know some others here disagree)
The feature sets do vary though, so if you particularly require sub-octave frequencies, or soft sync/hard sync switching, or the ability to blend or morph one waveform with another, there will be particular oscillators you should look out for.

[Absent1]

So do I have this right?

1. The dotcom cases can not hold any other companies modules? But they are compatible patch wise with MOTM and Modcan just each with there own respected racks and such.

2. If I start with a dotcom setup and get a Eurorack seperate setup with filters and such they are not compatible because of different voltage. This is not just a case of 1/4 inch jack to 1/8 cables?

Such a hard decision to make. The Euroracks really have sexy looking modules and I am really interested in the Harvestman stuff.

However the dotcom looks real meat and potatoes stuff to build on and going with the Euro it pretty much has to be based around Doepfer.

Or am I wrong with that assumption?

Thanks, Rob

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Absent1

So do I have this right?

1. The dotcom cases can not hold any other companies modules? But they are compatible patch wise with MOTM and Modcan just each with there own respected racks and such.

Apparantly the dotcom cases can hold both MOTM and Modcan B series modules (read through the thread to find the specifics as posted by Dave Peck).

Cyndustries also offers modules in the dotcom format.

[Beermaster]

Rob,

The dotcom cases can hold MOTM format modules ( and Modcan B ) as the Dimensions are almost the same - the position of the screw holes on Dot Com modules is different from MOTM modules. This doesn't matter if you're screwing the modules directly into the wood of a dot com cabinet but obviously if you decide to move modules around then there is only so many times you can screw around ( ho ho ) - as the wood won't grip the screws after a while.

In my system I used metal mounting rails that provide pre-drilled holes for mounting the modules - this way you can take a module in an out of the cabinet as often as you like and it won't affect the cabinet and will always hold fast - problem being tho that the pre-drilled mounting holes are spaced only for MOTM format modules ( and Oakley, STG, CGS etc )

The Euro rack gear will work with the dotcom systems so you can cross patch. They all use a +/-5v CV, V/8ve and gates.

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Personally I feel they are workhorse units and very similar from system to system.
(I know some others here disagree)
The feature sets do vary though, so if you particularly require sub-octave frequencies, or soft sync/hard sync switching, or the ability to blend or morph one waveform with another, there will be particular oscillators you should look out for.

I agree with this. Another important feature for me is how well they track.

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Some interesting points made by people (above).

Esoteric modules are one of the BIG pluses of getting into modular systems IMO.
How many hardwired synths offer a blend of analogue oscillator and wavetable oscillator, plus sawtooth animator, analogue delay and a cloned Moog filter?
The possibilities for unique synth construction are almost limitless.
Personally, I was heading down the road of the enormo-beast with my Doepfer/AS/Roland/Arp mini-jack combination, but I realised I found smaller, quicker to set-up patches more rewarding for my music.
Now I rarely patch more than a dozen modules, usually something like six.
A couple of oscillators, a couple of modifiers (filters etc) and a couple of utilities (envelope, vca etc).
I don't think the brain power should scare people off. The basic principles, which are fairly simple, need to be learned, after that you make your own boundaries.
I'm not a fan of normalling either.
There are semi-modular synths available. If you choose to go all out modular, you might as well free up your mind of pre-conceived configurations and start each patch set-up as a new exploration in sound design.

Good points from Chrisso as always
I have to admit that I would rather have a small Buchla and grow from there. Of course that is $$$ but it's just to say that some machines are incredibly deep without being massive. Even the smallest Buchla will do stuff that is highly creative and impressive
I had a Moog and sold it because I soon realised that you would need a massive Moog to get anywhere near the flexibility a small Serge or Buchla would offer. Hence my lack of interest in Dotcom to be honest (good though it is) and people like Beermaster make fabulous stuff with it, so it's just personal choice (that and the fact that I have a Polyfusion which goes in the same direction I think)
Although some feel it is too clinical, I like the Cwejman modular for it's quality and features. If I was building from scratch I'd probably base it around that with some funkier oscillators...
Doepfer have great module choices and is affordable and easy to get!
Macbeth M5 is a GREAT but non modular and fairly straight forward machine. Fab though.
A Serge Panel like the Animal would be a brilliant starting point..
Main thing is to get anything though and to start twiddling!

[Coyoteous]

Here's a good non-denominational modular forum:

http://modularsynth.net

If I were starting from scratch on a system right now, I'd probably go all Frac - mainly Blacet, but with other offerings, too. Wiard 300 is also very appealing, now that Grant has them back in production.

I wish I had bought a system when the prices were lower! The newer dual filter 300 modules incorporate 2 of the 1200 filters (or variations) in a single 300 module - nice stuff:

http://www.wiard.com

Check out Gary Chang's "large system" - kind of an understatement, unless compared to Beer's "modular room."

[Coyoteous]

Oh, and this is a nice thread (check out the rest of the forum, too):

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-7183.html

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

I had a Moog and sold it because I soon realised that you would need a massive Moog to get anywhere near the flexibility a small Serge or Buchla would offer. Hence my lack of interest in Dotcom to be honest (good though it is)

Put me in that camp also.
I had a fairly large Polyfusion. Amazing sound and some interesting modules, but I realised it took a large area of module real estate and quite a few cables to patch a simple mono sound, not dissimilar to a Mini-Moog or Odyssey.
With a handful of Serge or Buchla modules you quickly get into areas you couldn't with a pre-wired mono synth.
As I said earlier, if you already own a few mono and polyphonic synths, I would advise looking into the modular systems that offer esoteric modules. Those would be Doepfer, Serge, Wiard, ModCan, Buchla, Cwejman, Blacet..........

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by chrisso

As I said earlier, if you already own a few mono and polyphonic synths, I would advise looking into the modular systems that offer esoteric modules. Those would be Doepfer, Serge, Wiard, ModCan, Buchla, Cwejman, Blacet..........

I think I'm looking for a little bit of both flavors. I absolutely love the sounds of the DotCom from what I've heard so far but I'm growing equally enamored with the Modcan demos.

I'm going to follow your suggestion Chrisso and scale back my initial purchase. It makes alot of sense to spend some quality time with a smaller amount of modules and build from there.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Here's a good non-denominational modular forum:

http://modularsynth.net

Great link! Thanks.

[Tibbon]

So wait, are MOTM modules unavailable? I love building my own stuff and it looks pretty easy and a great deal of cost savings. I like the modules they offer too... just the right features.

I was thinking Doepfer before... but this might be the trick really. Also, not having to buy the expensive Doepfer cases... And I've realized I do like big knobs and jacks if possible

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

So wait, are MOTM modules unavailable? I love building my own stuff and it looks pretty easy and a great deal of cost savings.

Info is on the MOTM website;

http://www.synthtech.com/news.html

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

So wait, are MOTM modules unavailable? I love building my own stuff and it looks pretty easy and a great deal of cost savings. I like the modules they offer too... just the right features.

I was thinking Doepfer before... but this might be the trick really. Also, not having to buy the expensive Doepfer cases... And I've realized I do like big knobs and jacks if possible

Assembled modules are available with an unknown wait. I think Paul S. is building them all by himself these days, which was the case most of the time in the past.

Full kits are no more, but there was a special kit sale a couple weeks ago. Check the Synthtech store though. There you will also see the new DIY offerings - PCB's, front panels, brackets, pots, and special parts kits. You have to source your own common parts.

While they're not big knobs and jacks, Blacet kits are nice and a great value.

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I think I'm looking for a little bit of both flavors. I absolutely love the sounds of the DotCom from what I've heard so far but I'm growing equally enamored with the Modcan demos.

I'm going to follow your suggestion Chrisso and scale back my initial purchase. It makes alot of sense to spend some quality time with a smaller amount of modules and build from there.

If you can afford ModCan, that's great. You might consider getting a rack frame for each brand to get started, or build your own case (or use modules of one brand in the case of the other, along the modules of the case brand - just make sure they fit and that you have the power worked out).

Synthesizers.com VCO's and sequencers are a good value. The other modules seem to be decent, too. But, as with most things, you get what you pay for (if you're lucky). I could never bring myself to pull the trigger on a whole Synthesizers.com system.

As I've said before, I have a rack frame, small power supply, an instrument interface, a clipper rectifier module and 4 black panels to cover up the empty spaces. I think I paid a little over $300 for all that before the last price increase. I intend to get at least one of Roger's VCO's.

I thought about ModCan, but when I was considering it, the B series wasn't out. It's pricey gear, and I was happier putting that amount of money in MOTM. I can't say I really dig the B series "off white" thing, either - not a deal-breaker, though. Check out Oakley and STG, too.

Okay, I'll shut up now...

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Synthesizers.com VCO's and sequencers are a good value. The other modules seem to be decent, too. But, as with most things, you get what you pay for (if you're lucky). I could never bring myself to pull the trigger on a whole Synthesizers.com system.

As far as the dotcom stuff goes, price point isn't the main attraction for me. I think it sounds really great.

As far as your comment that 'you get what you pay for' in reference to the dotcom modules, what did you mean by that? The dotcom modules appear to be quite solid in build quality and I've not come across any posts suggesting otherwise. Have you had a different experience?

[chrisso]

By the way, you keep talking about the sound of DotCom.
Innocent question:
Have you heard it in person........and have you compared it to other systems in person?

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

As far as the dotcom stuff goes, price point isn't the main attraction for me. I think it sounds really great.

As far as your comment that 'you get what you pay for' in reference to the dotcom modules, what did you mean by that? The dotcom modules appear to be quite solid in build quality and I've not come across any posts suggesting otherwise. Have you had a different experience?

Synthesizers.com is quite "solid," but if you put anybody's build quality up against a MOTM module, it will pale in comparison - pots, components, jacks, etc. Design is also a big factor. Synthesizers.com also uses lots of little connectors and IC sockets internally, where MOTM is, for the most part, all hard-wired and audio lines are shielded internally.

There are a few exceptions that I've seen for better than MOTM quality: Wiard 300 modules are individually shielded and Oakley can run separate power and signal/CV grounds (for example).

Roger Arrick has a great turnkey product line, and like I said before, it is very "even" - nothing is under engineered or over engineered. I believe it to be a great "value" and their service seems to be second to none.

All of these companies, whether they have employees or not, are pretty much one man (or woman) shows with consistency, design, service, etc. being dictated by the actions and communication of that person at the top (Roger, Paul, Grant, Rex, Cynthia, Peter, Wowa, Dieter, Tony, Bob, Don, Tom, Phil, John - okay, there are more than I thought, but you get the idea) and they are all different.

I guess my point is, like with most things, it's all about trade-offs - character vs. design vs. value vs. quality vs. service, etc. That said, they all make decent, usable products for some level and kind of production and/or performance.

[DivineChemical]

I think it was earlier in this thread, or at least in some other thread that JazzPunk started where the question of negatives in contrast to the positives of modulars was brought up. Well, I've got one for ya: I've had some financial issues lately in regards to building my modular, so it hasn't been put together as fast as I'd originally intended. So far, I've invested $480 in a DotCom entry system. For me, $480 is usually a whole synth. What can I do with $480 worth of DotCom parts? I can MIDI-sync my JX3P's sequencer. Man, does that put things into a rotten perspective!

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by chrisso