What Modular system did you go with and why?

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

I've used my modular as a three voice poly synth a couple of times, but modulars are really not the best way to do a poly synth patch. It takes up the whole friggen synth to make a fairly basic sound. Better to use a real analog polysynth for that stuff and use the modular for all the amazing things that you CAN'T do with the simple voice architectures found in the polysynths.

Can you explain how you use your 6 osc set up (just curious how you arrived at that number)? Is it for monster unison type leads or for complex sequences? Using some of the osc as modulation sources? All of the above?!

(as you can tell I've never even been in the same room with a modular so feel free to dumb down your explanation as much as possible!)

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by RobJB06

Dave,
Do they do any wavetable (digital) oscillators for that format? Thanks

Dotcom doesn't offer one, but the Blacet Miniwave module can be fit into a Dotcom system. You can either get the original Blacet version & make your own front panel & modify the power harness as a DIY project, or you could get the Modcan "B" series version which will fit into a Dotcom cabinet just as well as an MOTM module would (you will still need to modify the power harness, or just get an MOTM 995 power adapter board).

There is also the Modcan VCOD which does some great FM-type stuff, and the expensive but amazing Cyndustries Zeroscillator, which is available in several formats including 100% Dotcom compatable.

info:

Untitled Document

Blacet Research Mini Wave

Cyndustries - Modular Analog Synthesizers

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

The modcan/cyndustries modules are beautifully built and so sturdy too !

Down sides of modulars:

Keeping a track of whats happening where with a big patch

The time it takes to get even a really basic patch up and running

The brain power it takes to think the patch through

Never being able to create an identical sound with no patch storage and so many variables

When is the system ever complete. My home system provides heat and hot water for the whole house ! ( not that it gets hot . .oh, no no no )

Beer

You pretty much brought up all of my possible concerns ('brain power' being my biggest possible downfall in the equation!). In your experience, has the sound quality/enjoyment factor outweighed these issues?

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by triez

I went with a .Com system as I like to have decent sized modules with 1/4 inch jacks that, like a big console, I can stand back and have a really good visual on what's going on.

I then normalled the hell out of it so that I can use it live as 2 synth channels with no patch leads whatsoever, which clears up masses of cable clutter, so that the patch cabling on the system is for more esoteric routing, with no loss at all in modularity. Effectively I made it like a Roland System 700 or an ARP 2600, so I have the best of both worlds, and it is quite easy to do. Here is a picture.

http://moonpony.net/modular/mdc.jpg

Hi triez,
Looks sweet! Can you explain a bit more about what was involved in normaling your .Com system?

[crufty]

I am interested too...but...there's just too much that goes into a modular for me. I guess there's always reaktor etc.

Does anyone have any clips of recent modulartainment?

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by crufty

I guess there's always reaktor etc.

*Picks crufty up by the scruff of the neck and boots him out of my thread*

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

info:

Untitled Document

Blacet Research Mini Wave

Cyndustries - Modular Analog Synthesizers

OMG, the 'Sawtooth Animator' from Cyndustries sounds insanely good!

[Beermaster]

Its certainly is and quite unique too ( tho I think it a variation of on original electronotes design ) - sort of a bit like a Roland 'Super saw' sound in a JP8000

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Can you explain how you use your 6 osc set up (just curious how you arrived at that number)? Is it for monster unison type leads or for complex sequences? Using some of the osc as modulation sources? All of the above?!

(as you can tell I've never even been in the same room with a modular so feel free to dumb down your explanation as much as possible!)

Hmm. Well, it seemed like a nice big number :) I often do make big fat unison sounds, sometimes in stereo (six detuned oscs spread across a stereo field and sent through stereo ladder filters is HUGE). But having that many oscs opens up lots of other possibilities, like using audio-rate modulation of filters / VCAs / Panners, or using four oscs all set at different frequencies into two separate ring modulators for massive gong and bell sounds, or tuning them all to huge six-note chords with different osc mixes going through different filters for complex sweeping drones.... And the eight LFOs in the MOTM modules work great for most uses, but if I ever need a full-featured LFO with things like pulse width modulation, hard sync, etc, I can also use the big oscs for that too.

unrelated - A few pointers for anyone planning a modular:

- don't scrimp on the mixers! You'll need more than you think. They're not the sexiest module but they are very important and have ltos of uses.

- same goes for VCAs.

- don't scrimp on the 'Multiples" (little patch panels that allow you to send one patch cord to several destinations - kinda like a 1-to-3 "Y" cord). But note that this does not apply to systems that use banana plugs (which can be stacked and don't need "multiples").

[Black-Man]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

- don't scrimp on the mixers! You'll need more than you think. They're not the sexiest module but they are very important and have ltos of uses.

- same goes for VCAs.

- don't scrimp on the 'Multiples" (little patch panels that allow you to send one patch cord to several destinations - kinda like a 1-to-3 "Y" cord). But note that this does not apply to systems that use banana plugs (which can be stacked and don't need "multiples").

IMHO... another advantage of MOTM, the filter modules have multiple inputs w/ attenuators hence not needing additional mixers. I have one mixer... and its the CV/Audio one... another advantage.

Mults are overlooked... but cheap enough.

[chrisso]

Some interesting points made by people (above).

Esoteric modules are one of the BIG pluses of getting into modular systems IMO.
How many hardwired synths offer a blend of analogue oscillator and wavetable oscillator, plus sawtooth animator, analogue delay and a cloned Moog filter?
The possibilities for unique synth construction are almost limitless.
Personally, I was heading down the road of the enormo-beast with my Doepfer/AS/Roland/Arp mini-jack combination, but I realised I found smaller, quicker to set-up patches more rewarding for my music.
Now I rarely patch more than a dozen modules, usually something like six.
A couple of oscillators, a couple of modifiers (filters etc) and a couple of utilities (envelope, vca etc).
I don't think the brain power should scare people off. The basic principles, which are fairly simple, need to be learned, after that you make your own boundaries.
I'm not a fan of normalling either.
There are semi-modular synths available. If you choose to go all out modular, you might as well free up your mind of pre-conceived configurations and start each patch set-up as a new exploration in sound design.

[ambientdrone]

Another dotcom owner here.

Selected the Arrick as the foundation because of form factor, input from other owners and the reputation of the company. I've added MOTM, Modcan and Blacet (repaneled to dotcom) modules...

[cebec]

STS Serge Modular.

I tried euro rack and frac rack formats, first, and ultimately decided to sell it all and take the plunge with a secondhand Serge system. Immediately, I was hooked on the sound, ergonomics, flexibility of the modules, and the overall 'feel'. I also discovered that I vastly prefer banana-based patching.

I soon added several more panels and now have a 6 panel system at the center of my studio. It's my main instrument and I use it for decidedly 'experimental' electronic music.

I plan to add another secondhand panel, some of the new M-odules, and maybe some Modcan/Cyndustries, eventually.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by triez

I went with a .Com system as I like to have decent sized modules with 1/4 inch jacks that, like a big console, I can stand back and have a really good visual on what's going on.

I noticed you have the 'Oscillator Aid' module for each osc. How useful do you find these modules and what exactly does the 'soft sync' do?

[triez]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Hi triez,
Looks sweet! Can you explain a bit more about what was involved in normaling your .Com system?

To normalize a modular, firstly you draw a map of the system on paper, and decide which routing within the machine that you want permanently connected. Note that normalization does not remove ANY of the modular functionality, what it does is to save a lot of patch lead clutter by removing the need for patch leads for common connections. Firstly, .Com makes a normalization module, which is designed to distribute gates and CV's around the system, so you hook it up to all of the VCO's, so that you have only to put a CV into one point to have it go to all of the VCO's on the synth. The same goes with gates, one node point sends gates to all of the envelope generators.

Afetr this, I normalled:

The gate and CV outs of the MIDI module into the abovementioned normalization module, this sending CV's and gates to every VCO and ADSR.
The outputs of each of the 5 Oscillator aids and the noise and Ring mod. to an 8 channel mixer.
One side of the mixer to the input of a transistor ladder filter.
The other side of the mixer to a State Variable filter.
The ADSR CV out of a couple of envelope generators to the 2 filters.
The audio outputs of each filter to the audio input of a couple of VCA's.
The The ADSR CV out of a couple of envelope generators to the 2 VCA's.

This allows me to basically turn on the synth, connect a lead from the outputs of 2 VCA's to my desk, and play the machine as parallel pair of conventional synths, one with 3 VCO's into a transistor ladder filter, the other 2 VCO's into a State variable filter. It gives me an instant starting point, with no patch leads, so I can then start patching the creative stuff without having to go through the tedium each time of plugging in 14 leads to get the machine to play a sound at all.

Why did I do this? because I will be using the machine live, and I want to be able to change patches during the show, and this setup, along with some of the clever routing and preset modules that .Com sell, allows me to do this without to much re-patching.

I know some purists will say that such a setup can cause the bad habit of staying stuck in conventional thinking and routing, but for live use it actually increases interaction with the machine because you can more easily work with the machine in real time. Also, as I pointed out at the beginning, the normalization does in no way reduce modularity. The APR 2600 and Roland System 700 are set up the same way, and no one complains that it stifles creativity, it encourages it by removing repetative tedium.

The actual process is simple, and a .Com is even easier because it uses 1/4 inch jacks and has large (Moog size) modules. you pick a source, say the output if an ADSR, and a destination, say the CV input of a VCA, that you want connected. you remove the jack socket from the VCA input and simply replace it with a new switched jack socket, and wire it identically to the old socket. Nothing to it.

You then solder a jumper (behind the panel) from the back of the ADSR output jack (just connect it to the tip along with the wire that is already there), and the other end goes to the SWITCH terminal of you new jack on the VCA input. if you use shielded cable, connect the earth at either end and you're done.

What you have now is a permanent connection, but it still works also a a pure modular, because the output of the ADSR is still available on it's socket to patch anywhere with a patch lead, but will always also appear at the input of you VCA. BUT here's the thing... If you put a patch lead into the input of the VCA, then the patch lead automatically disconnects the normalization, and bypasses it to allow a new configuration.

This is the reason that I built a custom 60 space cabinet, so that I could have all this normalization in place and move the machine as one unit.

Hope this all makes sense!

[triez]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I noticed you have the 'Oscillator Aid' module for each osc. How useful do you find these modules and what exactly does the 'soft sync' do?

I find the Oscillator aid very useful, for 4 main reasons:

It allows me to quickly switch waveforms rather than manually re-patching them.
It gives me a single point for normalization of the VCO output where I can access every wave shape.
It gives me a level control knob of the output of the VCO (this is VERY useful, the output of modular VCO's is HOT).
It leaves all of the separate output jacks of the VCO free to use for other purposes such as sync, cross mod etc.

I can't tell you how good it is to just grab a rotary switch to change waveforms rather than searching around to move a jack. This is also why I prefer the .Com format, it is so easy to see what you are doing, particularly in the dark, compared to tiny modules with mini-jacks.

As for the soft sync, it is great, the hard sync jack on the VCO gives you the classic VCO's being dragged together sound as you change the pitch of the sync'd VCO, but the soft sync is infinitely better, it sounds radical, because the slave VCO is not as firmly locked, if you add a little soft sync with the knob on the oscillator aid and then detune the slave VCO it sounds fantastic, sometimes almost like ring mod, sometimes like cross sync.

Finally, it is a cheap module, so it is a foregone conclusion to get one in my books.

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by triez

What you have now is a permanent connection, but it still works also a a pure modular, because the output of the ADSR is still available on it's socket to patch anywhere with a patch lead, but will always also appear at the input of you VCA. BUT here's the thing... If you put a patch lead into the input of the VCA, then the patch lead automatically disconnects the normalization, and bypasses it to allow a new configuration.

This is the reason that I built a custom 60 space cabinet, so that I could have all this normalization in place and move the machine as one unit.

Great synth, Triez! Kinda like a custom Macbeth M5 on steroids. In the early '70s I learned about modular synths on an Arp 2600 and used it for a lot of live gigs, and Triez is right. If you plan to use a modular synth live, lots of normalized patches with switching input jacks gives you the best of both flexibility and ease of use.

But you gotta get some more LFOs, Triez! I can recommend the MOTM 390 dual LFO. It fits well in a Dotcom system and it costs about the same as a pair of single LFOs from Doepfer:

Synthesis Technology - Home of the MOTM Modular Synthesizer

Plus it gives you two more blinkenlites in your rig.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

If you plan to use a modular synth live, lots of normalized patches with switching input jacks gives you the best of both flexibility and ease of use.

I also agree.
But for a studio instrument it's a total waste IMO.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by triez

What you have now is a permanent connection, but it still works also a a pure modular, because the output of the ADSR is still available on it's socket to patch anywhere with a patch lead, but will always also appear at the input of you VCA. BUT here's the thing... If you put a patch lead into the input of the VCA, then the patch lead automatically disconnects the normalization, and bypasses it to allow a new configuration.

Originally Posted by triez

I find the Oscillator aid very useful, for 4 main reasons...

Awesome info on all counts. Thanks!

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I'd like to hear more from modular owners as to why they made the system choices that they did. What sold you on a particular manufacturer and why?

My modern system is mostly MOTM - about 2 of most of modules in the line (though I still have a few kits left to build). I also have some custom modules in MOTM format (attenuators, etc.), an Encore UEG, 2 Oakley Multimixes, and 2 Synth Systems V-Shift modules (handmade by the late Larry Hendry - RIP).

I augment this with a single Synthesizers.com rack frame that only has 2 modules at present: Instrument Interface and Clipper/Rectifier, and single FracRak with a Blacet Frequency Divider and Dual Filter, a Wiard Joystick and JAG, and an M CORP Mult.

Somewhat by accident it's all American (except the Oakley PCB's), but with the US $ in the dumper it worked out well. I got all of the MOTM either used, or as kits, at older lower prices. All of the MOTM and MOTM compatible is also in rack frames.

All of the MOTM and MOTM compatible modules I have are built like tanks, are very well designed, sound great, and have actually appreciated in value. I highly recommend the Synthesizers.com, Blacet, Encore, Oakley and Wiard modules, as well.

[triez]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

Great synth, Triez! Kinda like a custom Macbeth M5 on steroids. In the early '70s I learned about modular synths on an Arp 2600 and used it for a lot of live gigs, and Triez is right. If you plan to use a modular synth live, lots of normalized patches with switching input jacks gives you the best of both flexibility and ease of use.

But you gotta get some more LFOs, Triez! I can recommend the MOTM 390 dual LFO. It fits well in a Dotcom system and it costs about the same as a pair of single LFOs from Doepfer:

Synthesis Technology - Home of the MOTM Modular Synthesizer

Plus it gives you two more blinkenlites in your rig.

Thanks for the heads-up Dave, I would love some LFO's, I am a synthesizer service tech, so I was about to build some, but the MOTM 390 looks great. Is there any trouble with fitting it physically into a .Com size chassis?

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by triez

Thanks for the heads-up Dave, I would love some LFO's, I am a synthesizer service tech, so I was about to build some, but the MOTM 390 looks great. Is there any trouble with fitting it physically into a .Com size chassis?

Nope, no real problem. It's not quite as wide as a Dotcom single-width module, so you'll have a slight gap on either side, but it's the same height as a Dotcom. The mounting holes are not spaced the same as Dotcom, but it doesn't matter if your cabinet has wood mounting rails instead of metal with threaded holes.

One other thing to keep in mind - the circuit boards on MOTM modules are perpendicular to the front panel (not parallel to it, like Dotcom) so MOTM modules can be quite a bit deeper than Dotcom. I think the 390 dual LFO is about 4.5 inches deep. Usually not an issue, but something to keep in mind if your cabinet is really shallow.

You can see four of the 390 LFO modules in my Dotcom system, bottom row, near the right, directly below the pair of Encore Universal Event Generators.

[Beermaster]

And although the panel sizes of the modules are almost the same between the MOTM and dot com the hole spacing for the mounting screws is different. The font panels of the dot com modules fold around forming a lip at 90 degrees to the front which makes it difficult to mount them in a cabinet designed for MOTM format modules ( as I found to my horror - Then having to route out 'dinks' that the cabs for the lips to slot into )

[Jazzpunk]

First off, I just wanted to say thanks to all for contributing such detailed information on your modulars. It has been very helpful and the input is much appreciated.

I'm going to go for a .Com modular as the basis of my system. I'm leaning towards a 44 module cabinet which I will fill about half full to begin with. While I'm starting to get a grasp on the modular concept by listening to patch demos on the synthesizers.com website and than studying the corresponding patch files, I don't think I'll really know how to fill out my cabinet until I've spent some time with the basic building blocks in front of me.

How difficult is it to install new modules? Are they difficult to rearrange if you decide to change the layout? Do I need a soldering iron or any other specialized tools?

[triez]

First thing is to make sure that you get a suitable power supply for the number of modules that you have or are likely to get. There is info on the website to add this up, and remember that a lot of modules don't use any power at all. Best to get a larger supply for future expansion. Installation is straight forward, everything is on plugs.

I bought small nylon washers to put under the screws that hold the modules in, it protects the modules from damage which I guess only really matters if you decide to sell or trade them to finnicky buyers.

.Com has module mapping software on their site so that you can plan a layout, and probably the other main questions will be:

Do you need a MIDI module, ie: is your controller keyboard MIDI or a 1V/octave analog synth? If it is a Korg or Yamaha analog the you will need a 3rd party CV converter.

Do you need an external signal processor module, (a Q118 Instrument interface)? Do you want to control the synth with guitar or bass, or do you mostly use keyboards?

Which filter to start with? Moog style or State Variable (which is far more flexible)?

How much room for expansion do you think you will need?

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by triez

How much room for expansion do you think you will need?

Good question.
44 modules is massive. 22 is pretty big and for someone who doesn't know if they're going to need a soldering iron (with due respect), you might do some more digging, research, hard thinking and budgeting before embarking on such an expensive plan.
The real beauty of modular synthesis is it's building block architecture. The building block can translate into knowledge as well as the composition of the system itself.
The first building block would be a basic synthesizer unit; 1 or 2 oscillators, an envelope, a VCA and a filter. Perhaps add an LFO and a midi to cv module. That gives you a grand total of 7 modules so far.
Thinking luxuriously, let's add a second filter and an audio input module.
9 modules can do a lot and keep you occupied for a deal of time.
it's also more or less what you get in most monophonic synthesizers.
Even if you add a ring-mod and s&h, you are still about halfway into your planned first module batch.
So how did you decide on 22 to 44 modules?

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Good question.
44 modules is massive. 22 is pretty big and for someone who doesn't know if they're going to need a soldering iron (with due respect), you might do some more digging, research, hard thinking and budgeting before embarking on such an expensive plan.
The real beauty of modular synthesis is it's building block architecture. The building block can translate into knowledge as well as the composition of the system itself.
The first building block would be a basic synthesizer unit; 1 or 2 oscillators, an envelope, a VCA and a filter. Perhaps add an LFO and a midi to cv module. That gives you a grand total of 7 modules so far.
Thinking luxuriously, let's add a second filter and an audio input module.
9 modules can do a lot and keep you occupied for a deal of time.
it's also more or less what you get in most monophonic synthesizers.
Even if you add a ring-mod and s&h, you are still about halfway into your planned first module batch.
So how did you decide on 22 to 44 modules?

Point taken but the thought of building a basic .COM mono synth like the one described above does not appeal to me. Not that it wouldn't be functional but there are plenty of other 'basic' mono synths I'd rather have. The point of going modular is to have options and options take up space!

The 22 space system seems like a great place to start but I can definitely see wanting to splurge on some more 'bells and whistles'. I already know I will want to purchase the additional filter as well as to add the oscillator aid modules. Add to that the Cyndustries and Modcan modules that have caught my eye and the 22 space rack will quickly be spilling over!

Seemed to make more sense to just go for the 44 space cab upfront rather than migrating all of the modules over later (much prefer the look of the 44 as opposed to stacking two 22 space cabs on top of each other).

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by triez

First thing is to make sure that you get a suitable power supply for the number of modules that you have or are likely to get. There is info on the website to add this up, and remember that a lot of modules don't use any power at all. Best to get a larger supply for future expansion. Installation is straight forward, everything is on plugs.

I bought small nylon washers to put under the screws that hold the modules in, it protects the modules from damage which I guess only really matters if you decide to sell or trade them to finnicky buyers.

Great tips and info. Thanks.

Originally Posted by triez

.Com has module mapping software on their site so that you can plan a layout

Mac here and no interest in running Bootcamp.

Originally Posted by triez

Do you need a MIDI module, ie: is your controller keyboard MIDI or a 1V/octave analog synth? If it is a Korg