drum machines vs plugs and softsynths

[d1rtynyc]

Hey DREWGRASS.
My JOMOX is for sale if you decide to go hard.

Fs: Jomox Xbase 09

[out-of-bed]

Since there's no correct answer to the software vs hardware dispute it's pretty pointless here (though maybe fun for someone) considering the original topic. I guess this thread would only have a point, if it was to give some guidance to people who are wondering whether they sould stick to software or also get some hardware.

What's apparent is that there are many of us who prefer having at least some hardware. Some feel it sounds better but there are also many other reasons. Personally (as I mentioned in the first page of this thread) I load an Emu SP1200 with samples from Battery 3 etc. because I usually prefer the sound and groove that comes out of the SP1200 afterwards - the differences are subtle but for me significant enough. But I also prefer the workflow of programming beats with hardware. I find it more inspiring than looking at a computer screen using a mouse and a keyboard - which reminds me of sitting in my office doing my day job.

The reason I suggested (the OP) to get a punchy sounding (usually vintage) hardware sampler is that for those who are not satisfied with the sound of pure software, a hardware sampler is an inexpensive and easy way to get some nice colour (i.e. certain type of colour unobtainable by software) to your beats. Another way to get this - and I am under the impression that many pros making their beats with software only do this - is running your drum tracks through a set of expensive analogue gear. Using a hardware sampler requires more work, of course, but it's a helluva lot easier and cheaper. For example, you'll find an Akai S950 for under 200 euros/bucks.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by out-of-bed

Since there's no correct answer to the software vs hardware dispute it's pretty pointless here (though maybe fun for someone) considering the original topic. I guess this thread would only have a point, if it was to give some guidance to people who are wondering whether they sould stick to software or also get some hardware.

What's apparent is that there are many of us who prefer having at least some hardware. Some feel it sounds better but there are also many other reasons. Personally (as I mentioned in the first page of this thread) I load an Emu SP1200 with samples from Battery 3 etc. because I usually prefer the sound and groove that comes out of the SP1200 afterwards - the differences are subtle but for me significant enough. But I also prefer the workflow of programming beats with hardware. I find it more inspiring than looking at a computer screen using a mouse and a keyboard - which reminds me of sitting in my office doing my day job.

The reason I suggested (the OP) to get a punchy sounding (usually vintage) hardware sampler is that for those who are not satisfied with the sound of pure software, a hardware sampler is an inexpensive and easy way to get some nice colour (i.e. certain type of colour unobtainable by software) to your beats. Another way to get this - and I am under the impression that many pros making their beats with software only do this - is running your drum tracks through a set of expensive analogue gear. Using a hardware sampler requires more work, of course, but it's a helluva lot easier and cheaper. For example, you'll find an Akai S950 for under 200 euros/bucks.

This is fair - a combo of software and hardware is the best bet. Ive been thinking about grabbing an old Akai-I saw an Old s950 being almost given away recently...But could you get a decent difference by sampling into the akai-then tweaking the sample and literally recording it back into the DAW as an audio sample? I just wonder whethr its worth my while or could I just chuck on a transient designer and a 'tape' plug in?....

[out-of-bed]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

But could you get a decent difference by sampling into the akai-then tweaking the sample and literally recording it back into the DAW as an audio sample? I just wonder whethr its worth my while or could I just chuck on a transient designer and a 'tape' plug in?....

I'm pretty sure you would get a decent difference, particularly with the S950. I'd say it's worth getting the Akai and experiment - if you don't like it, just sell it.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by out-of-bed

I'm pretty sure you would get a decent difference, particularly with the S950. I'd say it's worth getting the Akai and experiment - if you don't like it, just sell it.

mmm

so would there be a difference in audio quality if I resampled with a s950, a bass drum then sequenced the audio file in Logic. Or I recorded an entire drum track of the s950 bass drum being triggered from the s950? Do you see the question? IE can you just record each hit from a sampler and get the benefits whilst still sequencing within a DAW?

Also would the results sound fine if recorded directly into an RME fireface at 44.1? I see lots of chat about pre-amps but havent ever used one (and cant really afford one atm...)

[kalle1978]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

mmm

so would there be a difference in audio quality if I resampled with a s950, a bass drum then sequenced the audio file in Logic. Or I recorded an entire drum track of the s950 bass drum being triggered from the s950? Do you see the question? IE can you just record each hit from a sampler and get the benefits whilst still sequencing within a DAW?

Also would the results sound fine if recorded directly into an RME fireface at 44.1? I see lots of chat about pre-amps but havent ever used one (and cant really afford one atm...)

If you record a drumsound, to the sampler, yes it will get the "signature sound" of that perticular sampler, and you can then record it back to the computer if you like, and it will still have that signature sound. But ofcourse, it might change, since it's going through another A/D converter (your soundcard).... So it will probably not sound exactly like if you triggered it directly from your sampler....

However, there is no reason for doing that. The MPCs have great sequencers, built into the machines, and these can easily be controlled by midi-clock (i.e. run at the same speed as the rest of the stuff on your track/the stuff you controll with midi, or on your DAW). You can also trigger each sample directly from the DAW, having them played directly from the external sampler, but triggered from your DAW (say cubase, or logic).

[SWAN808]

yeah-but I can pick up a s950 for almost 1/10th of the price of an MPC....

Also I'll ultimately mix down in the DAW-so while using an MPC would be more fun...I think it might work ok to resample and have access to plugins etc on mixing....

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by drewgrass

sorry im still leary of meeting people off the internet, they scare me. maybe i should sign up for myspace and try to get some pussy first.

Meeting somebody off of GS isn't such a bad experience. I don't think any body here would dare try to meet somebody IRL for a murder/rape experience as it would be really easy for the cops to trace down your IP number and registered email address.

If you want to score some poonanie, I'd check out one of the sites dedicated to getting laid first as people who meet you on those sites pretty much know that there's not going to be any emotional attachments/names involved with your encounter and that to you, they are just a piece of meat. ...MySpace ends up getting you in legal trouble as a lot of those eighteen year old girls are actually fourteen and Chris Hansen will be waiting for you.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

MySpace ends up getting you in legal trouble as a lot of those eighteen year old girls are actually fourteen and Chris Hansen will be waiting for you.

lol. talking from experience I take it ;)

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Meeting somebody off of GS isn't such a bad experience.

Depending on how you handle yourself here, it can be a great experience.

I've gotten both post production as well as music gigs through the professional connections I've made here on Gearslutz. I've also made some great new friends who are as geeked out on gear lust as I am.

I'd much rather make a face to face gear sale with a fellow slut than have some random guy off of craigslist come to my home!

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I'd much rather make a face to face gear sale with a fellow slut than have some random guy off of craigslist come to my home!

Ditto on that. I sold a rack on Craigslist a few weeks ago, and the guy that came over to my place was this sixty-year old attorney that wanted to relive his youthful dreams of starting his own studio, and I could not get the son of a bitch to leave! He's wanting all these pointers on having my own studio at such a young age and I'm on the verge of just screaming at him "I don't want to help you through your midlife crisis! I just want your ****ing money so I can buy some interspecies porn!"

[out-of-bed]

Originally Posted by kalle1978

If you record a drumsound, to the sampler, yes it will get the "signature sound" of that perticular sampler, and you can then record it back to the computer if you like, and it will still have that signature sound. But ofcourse, it might change, since it's going through another A/D converter (your soundcard).... So it will probably not sound exactly like if you triggered it directly from your sampler....
.

From my experience, the signiature sound of a sampler does not disappear even when going through a mediocre A/D converter. Sure, some colour will disappear and some colour will be added but it is so subtle that it will not take away the character sound of the sampler (if the sampler has one...). I have recorderd the sp1200 through a Phonic Helixboard Firewire which does not have the best converters (although they are very decent). Yet, the things I like about the sp1200's sound did not go anywhere. And later my tracks will be converted to mp3's and (hopefully) end up in someone's cheap stereo, where the signal is again converted D/A, and the sp1200's sound will still be very recognizable.

Of course, better converters (like the RME FF) will do even more justice to the original sound.

[Bhang]

I personally don't see much of a difference in hardware and software unless your talking about analog. The other technologies exist on both sides of the fence so I think it comes down to the way you work. As far as sound quality goes they all sound good. I personally prefer the computer because it is far more flexible and compatible. I am constantly getting more drum samples and using them in Battery and I have never been happier.

[Shim]

Originally Posted by Bhang

As far as sound quality goes they all sound good. I personally prefer the computer because it is far more flexible and compatible. I am constantly getting more drum samples and using them in Battery and I have never been happier.

For example, I decided that i wanted to delve into Logics ultrabeat samples after getting bored of my collection. So i put them all onto my mpc It would seem we work backwards towards the same goal... could it be that their IS such thing as personal preference?
I suggest just choosing something you want to try and DOING it that way. If you decide that it isn't working for you, switch over to software/hardware. It's that easy. Just find what works for you and is fun.

[out-of-bed]

Originally Posted by Shim

For example, I decided that i wanted to delve into Logics ultrabeat samples after getting bored of my collection. So i put them all onto my mpc It would seem we work backwards towards the same goal... could it be that their IS such thing as personal preference?
I suggest just choosing something you want to try and DOING it that way. If you decide that it isn't working for you, switch over to software/hardware. It's that easy. Just find what works for you and is fun.

I agree completely.

A quote from DJ Krush:

"To create tracks I used to exploit the AKAI S-1000, Roland MC-50 and SP-1200 as my main equipment, but I can now say that Ableton Live has completely taken over. At times, I sample once with the SP-1200 and then resample with Live."

[Bhang]

Originally Posted by Shim

For example, I decided that i wanted to delve into Logics ultrabeat samples after getting bored of my collection. So i put them all onto my mpc It would seem we work backwards towards the same goal... could it be that their IS such thing as personal preference?
I suggest just choosing something you want to try and DOING it that way. If you decide that it isn't working for you, switch over to software/hardware. It's that easy. Just find what works for you and is fun.

this is one of the greatest things about the music tech world. There is no right or wrong way to go about this. The old school samplers have their plus points, especially in the less than 16 bit area (IMO). I still have a mirage and emax rack that I will never part with. ( The emax sounds soooooo good!!! + analog filters - but I just re-sample it most of the time). I guess my reason for going software is that it is so much quicker to navigate and the things kontakt can do, can not be done with any other sampler that exists. I also converted my whole ESI32 collection over to kontakt automatically. While not 100% accurate it was amazingly close. Also you can do so much more. Its 1 format and you can load it into anything you want and manipulate it to your hearts content.
My vote is for classics for their character and software for its options.

There are too many good things out there to be a purist of anything!

[digital 1010]

I have just updated from really old pc to mac pro and purchased loads of new gear(mostly software). One of my purchases was battery and i love it. I can really quickly get some wicked beats together.

I used to own a jomox airbase 99 like years ago,loved it except it kept going out of tune all the time on the kicks!!!! Drove me mental,even sending it to be fixed made no difference. I sold it in the end and bought an akai s3000xl,loved it but scsi drove me mad and always seemed hit or miss. then moved to a program called vsampler which was buggy as hell but allowed me to work far quicker.Then i added stylus rmx which is wicked for groove ideas or snipping to hell and manipulating but using straight seems have a sound to me that i cant quite dig. I love stylus as a composition tool and in kit mode it is at its best but only the high end of things like hats and shakers perc etc,the low end sounds funny to me.

Now i have just moved to battery and out of all the tools ive used its my favourite.
Creating kits is so easy the manipulation is wicked and its my new tool.

But that's just my work method i can really see the appeal in hardware still and in fact 2 pieces of gear i bought last week were the boss re20 space echo and an ibanez ts9dx and they were the first bits of hardware i have purchased in ages and ive been having nothing but fun with them throwing all sorts of stuff through them. Damn you could fart into the space echo and it would sound cool as nuts hahaha. (now waits for the comments "not as good as a real 201" - it cost £129 new so i dont care as ive already had my moneys worth of fun in 1 weekend hahah.

Work with whats best for you at the end of the day hardware software as so many people say its how use them that matters.

Just my 2p

Ben