drum machines vs plugs and softsynths

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Cool-so do you sequence the drums-then record into the DAW? DO you track the individual sounds seperately within the DAW-ie Bass drum, Snare, hats etc...?

I've got my computer on it's way out of the studio right now, actually. My workflow is to assign everything to individual outs, route those outputs through my mixers, and then record the main outs on the mixers to a hard disk recorder (coming soon!)

[iangomes]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

That I can do! I'll record the results tonight and be back tomorrow with it.

oh baby, my hero

[nonstatic]

Originally Posted by tstu102

EXACTLY--you can really hear the huge difference with this stuff when it comes to a huge sound system. It's like DJ's that spin mp3's--they sound ok at a house party, but the moment you bring it to the club, it sounds like shit.

No.

[nonstatic]

Originally Posted by olafmol

what kind of effect would this be? Most club PA's are mono, and rather non-hifi sounding too...but still i hear the effect you mention above...anyone any idea why?

Olaf

you mean the "wrong" effect?

that argument is about as tired as analog vs. digital, mac vs. pc, and a slew of others. if there is a real difference, there is something else at fault (dj's playing low-bitrate, or using a sub-par mp3 encoder).

properly encoded CBR 320kb mp3's sound just fine in the best clubs and on the best sound systems.

[iangomes]

Here in toronto, I think almost every electronic dj plays mp3s from beatport. I personally don't notice a difference but I've never a/b'd between vinyl and cd.

[nonstatic]

Originally Posted by Konketsu

Perhaps there is little difference within the context of a finished, mastered track that is being played back from an iPod.

On stage and being played back over a big soundsystem, TR909 > Reason or any softsynth for that matter.

Case in point: for the Cobblestone Jazz show that happened here a few months back, Matt Jonson's rider stipulated a TR909 and the promoters had to scramble to find one. There has to be a reason for that.

uhh, maybe the reason is because he owns a 909 and he rehearses with one?

are we REALLY going to have this debate in 2008? it doesn't make one bit of difference whether you have the real thing or a software emulation at this point. it isn't going to make your music any better.

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by nonstatic

uhh, maybe the reason is because he owns a 909 and he rehearses with one?

are we REALLY going to have this debate in 2008? it doesn't make one bit of difference whether you have the real thing or a software emulation at this point. it isn't going to make your music any better.

Have you actually taken a moment to listen to the music of 2008? It sucks! It really really REALLY sucks! It's not just in the feeble compositions, the thin little softsynths, the horrid mixing/mastering, and the repetition of every little nuance of every other artist you're hearing right now. The drums sound pretty crappy, too! There hasn't been a new electronic track that made me shit my pants in amazement when I heard it in almost a decade. That's just embarrassing right there. Even black metal fans, the pickiest listeners I know of can point out at least one good new song every year. Use your ears: a real 909 sounds better than a software emulation. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Samples are the closest that most of us that don't have a couple grand are going to come. People still request a 909 for their shows and guess what: it isn't because of the interface.

[thx1138]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

I've got my computer on it's way out of the studio right now, actually. My workflow is to assign everything to individual outs, route those outputs through my mixers, and then record the main outs on the mixers to a hard disk recorder (coming soon!)

HD-Recorder = Computer.
You are not Computer-free.

[thx1138]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Have you actually taken a moment to listen to the music of 2008? It sucks! It really really REALLY sucks!

Blablabla... I can't hear this shit anymore. Music has always sucked, dude.
You always had to dig deeper to find the good stuff. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean that there isn't good stuff.

Oh, and of course this has to do with soft synths, sure... soft synths are evil, so were Digital Synths in the 90s, so was the DX7 in the 80s, so was the Moog Modular when it came out.

I call bullshit!

Go and revolutionize music! You can, 'cos it is in your mind, it has absolutely nothing to do with what ****ing tools you are using.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Have you actually taken a moment to listen to the music of 2008? It sucks! It really really REALLY sucks!

Wow, that's some generalization!

Everything, I mean everything released this year 'sucks'?

Personally, there's some music I like, and I rarely wonder if software or hardware was used. I'm guessing most of my favourite artists use both.

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by thx1138

HD-Recorder = Computer.
You are not Computer-free.

Why does everybody always want to get picky on this issue? Is this phrase better: "A machine dedicated to the recording of audio rather than a machine that has no specific purpose."

You didn't always have to dig deeper to find the good shit. Used to, it was so easily accessible that it was even on the radio!

[thx1138]

I don't know, I liked you better when you were Audrey Hepburn.

[Drone]

Originally Posted by thx1138

so was the Moog Modular when it came out.

.. so were cassette tapes cause 8 track sounded better

Originally Posted by thx1138

so was the DX7 in the 80s

Hey I just bought one these !

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by thx1138

I don't know, I liked you better when you were Audrey Hepburn.

And I liked you better when you were Robert Duvall.

[thx1138]

It's just so ****ing tedious to fight that fight over and over again. Some know the pros and cons of both, some seem to be extreme on both ends. And that's just wrong… mix it up a little! Take the best of both worlds! It's a lot of fun and there's nothing wrong with it.

[thx1138]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

And I liked you better when you were Robert Duvall.

I could morph into him again, if you want. But I would need a computer for that

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

You didn't always have to dig deeper to find the good shit. Used to, it was so easily accessible that it was even on the radio!

Having grown up in the 70's I disagree (and agree with thx1138).
Good music has never been that easily accessible.
It's a factor of age to think music was better in your youth.
I agree however, the major labels are presiding over the McDonaldsization of contemporary music. Meanwhile the internet and software has brought the opportunity of a commercial release to a wider community.
Back in the day, you had to have demos, a bit of a following and the backing of an A&R man to get a record released. Therefore a lot of 'good music' never made it.
Now there's nothing stopping good music from being heard.

[n***N]

Originally Posted by drewgrass

hello to all. i recently bought my first good analog synth a dsi evolver and the difference between it and the softsynths i have are very noticable. it has alot more depth thickness etc. it almost eats the mix. so the question i have is, are drum machine samplers etc like mpc's,elektrons jomox etc. going to sound that much better than stylus or reason for beats. thanks to all

Go to the Jomox website and listen to the demos of the 999

honestly, the fattest sounding analog drum synth I ever heard. They could have put those Demos through some major equipment; who knows, but if they didnt....MASSIVE!!

That thing sounds FAAT!! pricey tho, $2300US ... But the kicks on that thing are f****ing bomb, and cant even imagine what they will sound like after feeding them through a Distressor, a Manley, and then a Fatso

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Having grown up in the 70's I disagree (and agree with thx1138).
Good music has never been that easily accessible.
It's a factor of age to think music was better in your youth.
I agree however, the major labels are presiding over the McDonaldsization of contemporary music. Meanwhile the internet and software has brought the opportunity of a commercial release to a wider community.
Back in the day, you had to have demos, a bit of a following and the backing of an A&R man to get a record released. Therefore a lot of 'good music' never made it.
Now there's nothing stopping good music from being heard.

I agree with your points there for the most part, but I wouldn't really call it so much a product of age as possibly a generational thing. When I was a kid (keep in mind that I'm a lot younger than you) we had Depeche Mode, Real Life, The Talking Heads, Devo, The Cure, Metallica, Madonna, Talk Talk, Thriller-era Michael Jackson, Front 242, Yaz, and pretty much the majority of my other favorite artists were being played on the radio, and I still love all these guys today. Even later on, I got my Crystal Method, Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, the Orb, Orbital, Astral Projection, Juno Reactor, and Shpongle fix from the radio (and all of my death metal cravings came on late at night.) If there's good/memorable music here in this era that wasn't generated by an artist of bygone times (Depeche Mode, the Cure, etc.), I would love to hear it, because outside of the work of Acid Hazard and David Morley, I have yet to be impressed.

[sctt_stone]

i bought a 999 based on the demos. It sounds exactly like the demos!!! I run it through an Apogee Ensemble into Logic and I am happy. The filter is awsome also. Great for blips and beeps. Bye the way I got mine for around 1,900 U.S. from Nova music.

Originally Posted by n***N

Go to the Jomox website and listen to the demos of the 999

honestly, the fattest sounding analog drum synth I ever heard. They could have put those Demos through some major equipment; who knows, but if they didnt....MASSIVE!!

That thing sounds FAAT!! pricey tho, $2300US ... But the kicks on that thing are f****ing bomb, and cant even imagine what they will sound like after feeding them through a Distressor, a Manley, and then a Fatso

[sctt_stone]

Do you like RadioHead?

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

I agree with your points there for the most part, but I wouldn't really call it so much a product of age as possibly a generational thing. When I was a kid (keep in mind that I'm a lot younger than you) we had Depeche Mode, Real Life, The Talking Heads, Devo, The Cure, Metallica, Madonna, Talk Talk, Thriller-era Michael Jackson, Front 242, Yaz, and pretty much the majority of my other favorite artists were being played on the radio, and I still love all these guys today. Even later on, I got my Crystal Method, Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, the Orb, Orbital, Astral Projection, Juno Reactor, and Shpongle fix from the radio (and all of my death metal cravings came on late at night.) If there's good/memorable music here in this era that wasn't generated by an artist of bygone times (Depeche Mode, the Cure, etc.), I would love to hear it, because outside of the work of Acid Hazard and David Morley, I have yet to be impressed.

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by sctt_stone

Do you like RadioHead?

I like a few songs of theirs alright, particularly off of Kid A and Amnesiac. Their newer stuff hasn't really struck a chord with me, though.

[onion]

Originally Posted by tstu102

I think things like "funky drum" quantize templates, etc. are garbage. When has anyone ever used a groove template?

SH!T! I use 'em all the time. What was I thinking?

[chrisso]

Music is such a matter of personal taste.
In the electronic area I think Murcof and Panasonic are interesting, also Jochem Paap.

It's hard to say what current music is going to be considered crucial. It's easier with hindsight.
I just remember musicians in the late 70's bemoaning the demise of 'real' music such as The Beatles, Sly Stone, Hendrix, Zeppelin and Motown, in favour of pop.
Then punk came along and reinvigorated us all again.
By the mid-80's things had swung back in favour of the mainstream pop scene, as championed by major labels.

Also, it wasn't until the late 80's that many realised it was a mistake to discard the great analogue instruments in favour of digital.

I think the angle I most agree with (having experienced the past) is to take on change, but not totally discard the past.
Hence, I use some software, especially HD recording, but my favourite pieces are mostly 70's era hardware.

[n***N]

Originally Posted by sctt_stone

i bought a 999 based on the demos. It sounds exactly like the demos!!! I run it through an Apogee Ensemble into Logic and I am happy. The filter is awsome also. Great for blips and beeps. Bye the way I got mine for around 1,900 U.S. from Nova music.

Awesome man thanks!

What is this im reading about compression on the kicks? you have it, does it have a compressor inside? Please tell me NO!

[taturana]

Originally Posted by tstu102

I have to respectfully, but completely, disagree with this. I think things like "funky drum" quantize templates, etc. are garbage. When has anyone ever used a groove template? ...

I have used plenty of groove quantize... recently i have used it to quantize certain part according to a drum loop instead of a fixed grid.. but you have to know how to work it... and not overdo it...

and as for sounds, sound libraries, etc... the plugins are leading the edge. in recording.. for realtime messing or playing, drum machines can be better.

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I think the angle I most agree with (having experienced the past) is to take on change, but not totally discard the past.
Hence, I use some software, especially HD recording, but my favourite pieces are mostly 70's era hardware.

I think that's a fair outlook to have. (Though I do miss the days when you could buy that CS-80 that just gets in everybody's way for $150!) I swear, I keep trying to give softsynths a try here, but I just really have yet to find anything that just sat well with me. ReBirth was cool, but I sort of outgrew the 303 sound. A couple of other softsynths were interesting, especially the more experimental forms of synthesis like alias synthesis and granular, but nothing has just stood out to make me exclaim in an empowered fashion while standing up and revealing cum stains on my pants "I need this particular piece of code!"

[Konketsu]

Originally Posted by nonstatic

uhh, maybe the reason is because he owns a 909 and he rehearses with one?

are we REALLY going to have this debate in 2008? it doesn't make one bit of difference whether you have the real thing or a software emulation at this point. it isn't going to make your music any better.

Let's not degenerate into sarcasm. All other things equal, the simple fact is that a real 909 over a decent soundsystem kills anything software based, there is no point in arguing the contrary. How do I know this? Because I've used a 909 over a decent soundsystem alongside guys using software. Guess what made people sit and go "holy shit, where is that kick coming from!?" during soundcheck? Hint: It didn't have a GUI or a mouse dangling off of it.

You are right, in a production environment and context, (ie: studio and completed, published and marketed track) it doesn't matter because the vast (and I mean vast) majority of people listening will not be able to tell the difference and of those that can, most probably don't care. But I'm not talking about a production environment, I'm talking about being on stage and driving 20000 watts' worth of speaker cone. In a live setting, the difference is huge and immediately apparent.

I don't know where you hail from, but if you're anywhere close to the west coast of the US/Canada, send me a pm and try to get up to Vancouver around July 12 for "Sequential Circus 3". Here's a link to a review of SeqCirc 2 for more info. I'll get you in (I'm the FOH), we can hook up your laptop or whatever, and we can A/B that with my 909. Sound good?

[Lessli]

Originally Posted by n***N

What is this im reading about compression on the kicks? you have it, does it have a compressor inside? Please tell me NO!

I'll take the liberty to answer that one...

The compressor on the KICK is not exactly your standard comp. It's got only one parameter to adjust, and sounds like someone's playing with the fader right after the attack phase. Not that fanc, but kool enough to get used a lot.