best control surface for VSTs & VSTis

[Touchmaster]

I want a control surface to alter paramaters on my VSTs and VSTis...
I was hoping I could get some recommendations from people who own them...
I was thinking maybe novation zero sl, but is there others that do similar stuff?
thanks

[Touchmaster]

noone use any control surfaces?
must be someone on here who uses remote SL surely?

[vibralux]

Remote SL is great- I could not live without it. I dont use it for transport controls and mixing cause the faders are just to small and shitty, but the automapt thingy and encoders coupled with any VST plugin is a pure insanity. Its simple and effective and cheap if You consider other control surfaces like Mackie and stuff.

Hope it helps a bit

M

[Arcana]

I don't know if the Remote SL have the same features but Novation's new Nocturn looks rather tasty as it integrates very well with softsynths. And it's very cheap as well.

[Touchmaster]

cheers

[ONE LUV]

YouTube - SOS NAMM: Novation Nocturn

ich will buy nocturn instandly. release/first delivery date in germany seems 05.05.2008

i´ve watched a couple of youtube videos and it seems exactly what i´ve been looking for and the price is 100 €!!! great!

i will set it up like this: actually i´m working with a big 32" samsung lcd screen and i will put a small tft direct behind the nocturn on my desk just for the automap screen page.

i hate setting up vst´s via mouse and really looking forward to this small device!!!

05.05.08 is d-day ****ers

[DivineChemical]

Behringer BCR2000. Best bang for the buck. All those knobs for dirt cheap.

[teknosmoker]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Behringer BCR2000. Best bang for the buck. All those knobs for dirt cheap.

+1

[Touchmaster]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Behringer BCR2000. Best bang for the buck. All those knobs for dirt cheap.

my only worry with this is - does it take ages to setup for all you different plugins...? and how do you remember what knob does what... the reason i liked the look of the zero SL is that it has a screen telling you...

[rokuez]

novation remote zero works really well in reason , love the scribble strip as well

[joenovice]

Euphonix.....

[crufty]

x-synth. my mantra is if it doesn't make noise I don't buy it (save for the berhinger knob boxes)

[kidhandsome]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Behringer BCR2000. Best bang for the buck. All those knobs for dirt cheap.

+1 . Although i went with the bcf 2000 because I'm a sucker for motorised faders. I'm more of a fader kinda guy even when controlling synth parameters.
It really works a treat with synths like massive, predator, albino, etc.

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by Touchmaster

my only worry with this is - does it take ages to setup for all you different plugins...?

Not at all. There's presets for most DAWs on the unit. When I was using it with Reason, it would switch to the different layouts on the unit every time I picked a different audio module. And with most DAW's these days, the automap features and MIDI learn make setting up things that don't have presets a breeze. Just set up your knobs in a logical order so you'll remember what does what, and if you have trouble with that, just make a template out of notebook paper to stick over it.

[Arcana]

I don't know if you BCR2000 owners have watched the 11 part Nocturn tutorial on Youtube. Looks pretty darn good to me. Are you telling me you can do most of that on the BCR2000? I wouldn't have thought so but I could be wrong.

YouTube - Novation Nocturn Tutorial Part 1 of 11

You should be able to easily find the other 10 parts.

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by Arcana

Are you telling me you can do most of that on the BCR2000?

Yes.

[Arcana]

Care to elaborate just a tiny bit more?

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by Arcana

Care to elaborate just a tiny bit more?

What needs to be elaborated? It can do pretty much anything the Nocturn can do.

[crufty]

I use the x-synth because its so knobby and fadery. Oh and HYPERSAW

just kiddin'. But it has two octaves, an x/y pad, a joystick and a grip of knobs, buttons and faders. Worth checking out.

[Arcana]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

What needs to be elaborated? It can do pretty much anything the Nocturn can do.

Well for one, Nocturn has a transparent GUI which integrates with your sequencer and makes it very easy to control VSTi's.
Another thing: the middle knob controls everything that the mouse just hovers over, making tweaking very easy to do.
The whole integration process with your VSTi's just seems very smooth. And of course, it's very portable. Doesn't look as impressive as the BCR2000 though.
Dunno, haven't tried either, hence why I'm looking for some opinions.

[pyvnd]

The Behringer knob box is not the most user friendly thing in the world. And the presets they have on their sites are a few and for older VSTis and pretty much never updated.

I have it, and it works and all, but if you want something to automap everything for you, this ain't the one. It does have 8 knobs with push click and 32 without. So that's a lot of knobs. And it has foot pedal input and it has I think 2 midi outs and one in. So you know, it has those extras. But it is not usb-powered which is crap if you want to use it with a laptop. You have to plug it into a power source.

I bought one a long time and I don't really use it. I just found the whole mapping and then saving a preset and then this and then that too much of a pain. I will probably sell it soon. I have a Novation SL 25 key also and the knobs on that are not endless but the keys feel good and I like having it around for the keys. I may sell that too though.

Right now, I have my eye on the new Yamaha controllers. Not as many knobs as some but it comes with a bunch of template presets for all the major stuff (including Korg which I use) and it looks cheaper and better made than the Korg controllers. You may want to have a look on the Yamaha site and maybe check 'em out in a store. They're too new for anyone here to have used I think.

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by Arcana

Well for one, Nocturn has a transparent GUI which integrates with your sequencer and makes it very easy to control VSTi's.
Another thing: the middle knob controls everything that the mouse just hovers over, making tweaking very easy to do.
The whole integration process with your VSTi's just seems very smooth. And of course, it's very portable. Doesn't look as impressive as the BCR2000 though.
Dunno, haven't tried either, hence why I'm looking for some opinions.

Well, these seem like very minor inconsequential things to me. (If you've got the controller sitting right in front of you, do you really need that silly GUI?) The middle knob sounds like a nice thought, but does that really justify the higher cost and the fewer knobs? The Behringer can latch on to most VSTi's you use and reprogramming it is easy. In the long run, the best way around this is to get some hardware synths and never have to worry about knob boxes again.

[OldSkool]

I dunno boys...that Nocturn really looks like the $hit to me. I have had a BCR2000 sitting on my desk for months, unused. I have tried repeatedly to get it to map to my plugins, and, for example, it won't even use the official Behringer patch to run my NI Pro-53.

I have a BCF as well, and use it in Mackie mode (Cubase), no problem, I love it, but the BCR has become a paperweight. I joined the B-control Yahoo forum, tried out some of the undoubtedly amazing free control software the gurus there have coded, but honest to god, after 19 years of heavy computer use (including being a web designer and currently writing for an IT company), I am fuddled as ever by the BCR. Unintuitive is too kind a word. I am not a MIDI guru like the Yahoo forum guys and I don't want to become one. i want the damn thing to work out of the box.

I think the BCR could end up on Craigslist. I will give it one more full day of serious messing around, then it's decision time. DivineChemical, I envy your patience and obvious clued-inness with the Behringer; it is the one piece of puter equipment I've ever used that made me feel like a complete idiot.

[Altitude909]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Well, these seem like very minor inconsequential things to me. (If you've got the controller sitting right in front of you, do you really need that silly GUI?) The middle knob sounds like a nice thought, but does that really justify the higher cost and the fewer knobs? The Behringer can latch on to most VSTi's you use and reprogramming it is easy. In the long run, the best way around this is to get some hardware synths and never have to worry about knob boxes again.

I am going to get all sorts of crazy and +1 for the BCR/BFR, head over to the yahoo group for this thing and you will be amazed. 3rd party firmware hacks and the ability to do roland sysex checksums? WOWZA, easily the best midi implementation I have ever seen

[MartinK]

Already said this in another thread but I like my SL. It works 100% perfectly with Reason (now that I've figured out how to control channels 7-14 on the mixer... durhh).

I don't think it's so great with other DAWs. I have not tried it with other virtual instruments (spent 2 minutes trying to control a 3rd party AU within Logic and didn't even have any idea where to start trying to make it work). If I wasn't spending most of my time in Reason it would not have been worth the price tag (37 key version is 500bux).

I always thought the BCR looked and felt a bit cheap. I have never actually used one to control anything, though, so I don't really know. I think I'd have a hard time keeping track of what 32 knobs and 16 buttons in one square foot with no LCD are each controlling when they're not permanently assigned to anything.

Is it just me or does it seem like the middle-knob on the Nocturn is kind of redundant? If you have to move your mouse over the parameter in the first place, you might as well go ahead and click on it instead of letting it hover there and reaching over to a knob and then reaching back over to your mouse when you're done. Maybe mouse editing isn't fun but it's pretty quick and if you have to use your mouse to find what you want to edit anyways...

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by OldSkool

DivineChemical, I envy your patience and obvious clued-inness with the Behringer; it is the one piece of puter equipment I've ever used that made me feel like a complete idiot.

It's just a matter of getting your head wrapped around MIDI. Never had an issue with it.

[lhm1138]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Not at all. There's presets for most DAWs on the unit. When I was using it with Reason, it would switch to the different layouts on the unit every time I picked a different audio module. And with most DAW's these days, the automap features and MIDI learn make setting up things that don't have presets a breeze. Just set up your knobs in a logical order so you'll remember what does what, and if you have trouble with that, just make a template out of notebook paper to stick over it.

That's interesting, I didn't realize the BCRs could do that. Will it only switch to the different modules for presets, or if you create user templates for your plug-ins, will it switch on those as well?

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by lhm1138

That's interesting, I didn't realize the BCRs could do that. Will it only switch to the different modules for presets, or if you create user templates for your plug-ins, will it switch on those as well?

Well the way it worked for me is that preset number two on the BCR was designed specifically for Reason. When you launch Reason, it pretty much takes control of the whole BCR. When you click on a module, it will go ahead and reconfigure the front panel to adapt to that module. There's no actual preset switching involved really.

[OldSkool]

Just a quick one - thanks to Arcana for mentioning Nocturn - that's why I come to gearslutz! I preordered one from Tom Lee (not available in Van yet) and stuck my BCR on Craigslist.

And to DivineChemical - not to take anything away from you, exactly the opposite in fact because you must have the patience of Job. There's a very good reason there's a Yahoo forum full of MIDI gurus and all their third-party hacks. Musicians on the whole don't want to be MIDI gurus I don't think, I certainly don't. The Nocturn can do things the BCR can't, not least show you what it is mapped to and what it is doing. I don't have the motivation to understand sysex protocols, I don't want to hack NRPNs, I want a tool that will run my plugins with as little fuss as possible.

Looking forward to that Nocturn!

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by OldSkool

I don't have the motivation to understand sysex protocols, I don't want to hack NRPNs, I want a tool that will run my plugins with as little fuss as possible.

*sighs* It's true what they say: Electronic musicians these days are lazy. There was a time when if you weren't well versed on the in's and out's of MIDI, you just didn't get into electronic music. Seeing that somebody blatantly refuses to learn this part of their craft makes me a sad panda.