Suggestions for analog synths with snappy envelopes

[kalle1978]

Roland sh-101, and moog little phatty, should all fit within that pricerange.

[analogholic]

Yeah, was thinking about getting something "snappy" myself...

Hmmm...maybe a Waldorf Pulse ? That´s a monophonic racksynth.

Pros: Cheap, very snappy envelopes, versatile

Cons: A bit "sterile" (only heard Mp3:s), few knobs


For that price, is there anything "better" ?

[teknosmoker]

Originally Posted by kalle1978

Roland sh-101, and moog little phatty, should all fit within that pricerange.

While I agree that the synths you suggested have snappy envelopes, the OP stated that he only wants a rackmount synth.

Yup - Waldorf Pulse is a rackmount analog with snappy envelopes. As mentioned above, it's not as warm as a lot of other analogs, but it fits your price range. If you were willing to save & spend a little more (or find a good deal on a used one), you might consider a Moog Voyager rackmount. VERY snappy envelopes. Make sure that you demo one first though. I'm not crazy about them (I actually prefer the sound of the less expensive Little Phatty), but a lot of people really seem to like the Voyagers a lot.

Good luck in your search & let us know what you end up getting!

[rids]

Cwejman VM-1.

[Reptil]

lol saw this thread and wanted to say waldorf, moog, cwejman, doepfer, Analogue Systems
eeeehhhh

[modistylee]

How about a Studio Electronics ATC-Xi? or even a Se-1X if you can afford it.

I' m pretty sure they will fit all of your constraints and needs.

Also, take a look at the new Future Retro XS. Its not shipping just yet, but the thing looks pretty ridiculous as far as the price to performance ratio goes.

[trancekid]

get a roland sh2, much better than the 101 and not too expensive .

[teknosmoker]

Originally Posted by modistylee

How about a Studio Electronics ATC-Xi? or even a Se-1X if you can afford it.

I' m pretty sure they will fit all of your constraints and needs.

If you need REALLY, REALLY snappy envelopes, I would not recommend the Studio Electronics synths. They are not known for having very fast envelopes (though they've improved them over time). I purchased a brand-new ATC-Xi not long ago directly from Studio Electronics. While the envelopes are definitely not bad (and I have the latest model, which has the upgraded amp section & "snapify" thing), they are not as fast as my SH-101 or a Moog. I have found a "workaround" though - By inverting one of the envelopes, you can get very snappy/punchy percussive sounds. It would still be nice to have faster envelopes though. With 4 different filters (Moog, Oberheim, 303 & Arp), distortion, ring mod, external audio input and sine wave generator, I feel that the sonic palette of the ATC-Xi wipes the floor with what the current Moogs are capable of. All-in-all, I'm happy with my purchase. Although it was designed to emulate other analog synths, it's really got a sound of it own. Very good for techno... Synth preferences are very subjective though. Play with one at a dealer before purchasing.

BTW - The presets and demos are really bad/outdated and are geared towards hip hop/r&b (lots of sub-basses and hi-pitched wormy leads). You need to program the ATC (which is a lot more fun anyway!) to realize its true potential.

-T

[Phaidon]

+1 for Waldorf Pulse(used only I guess)....

[OurDarkness]

The Waldorf Pulse is snappy but not that snappy. You can also check Spectral Audio's Neptune II or a Vermona Perfourmer. You can also listen to some samples at www.modularesquare.com

[DevonB]

Originally Posted by Phaidon

+1 for Waldorf Pulse(used only I guess)....

I LOVE Waldorf, but that's going to leave me buried in menus. I want knobs and lots of them.

Devon

[DevonB]

Originally Posted by teknosmoker

If you need REALLY, REALLY snappy envelopes, I would not recommend the Studio Electronics synths. They are not known for having very fast envelopes (though they've improved them over time). I purchased a brand-new ATC-Xi not long ago directly from Studio Electronics. While the envelopes are definitely not bad (and I have the latest model, which has the upgraded amp section & "snapify" thing), they are not as fast as my SH-101 or a Moog. I have found a "workaround" though - By inverting one of the envelopes, you can get very snappy/punchy percussive sounds. It would still be nice to have faster envelopes though. With 4 different filters (Moog, Oberheim, 303 & Arp), distortion, ring mod, external audio input and sine wave generator, I feel that the sonic palette of the ATC-Xi wipes the floor with what the current Moogs are capable of. All-in-all, I'm happy with my purchase. Although it was designed to emulate other analog synths, it's really got a sound of it own. Very good for techno... Synth preferences are very subjective though. Play with one at a dealer before purchasing.

Am I right looking at the ATC-Xi in that it has membrain buttons? How good/bad are those? Those types of buttons don't exactly have stellar reputation for holding up over time, that's for sure. I've also seen the mod for the SE-1x as well to give it 'snappier' envelopes. The price is right for a SE-1, but not the envelopes. A pity as it looks pretty much for what I'm after.

Devon

[clusterchord]

Pulse is faster than any Studio Electornics board. that being said, im really not fond of its (cold) sound, tho it has its uses, esp in high-bpm electornica/trance etc.. ATC-Xi and SE-1X(w midiminify) have beautiful sound. old moog-stlye saturation on VCA. i prefer this to vyg/lp sound. ive heard that Xi version has a faster env than regular ATC-X, but havent heard a nice demo yet to demonstrate how good the upgrade is. other than that, i agree SE stuff is generally in slower camp.


most snappy synths ive ever heard/used, and none falls into your requirements (rack/nonvintage) are SH-101, System100M, Jupiter4, Prophet rev2, Jupiter 8 and minimoog. everything else is seemed somewhat pedestrian comparably.

from what ive heard from the demos, the Future Retro XS seems like just the ticket for you. its new, its rack, its analog and its snappy. Cwejman modular would work too, lotta talk about its envs.. but i expect its much more expensive to get a similar capability u get w XS.

[teknosmoker]

Originally Posted by DevonB

Am I right looking at the ATC-Xi in that it has membrain buttons? How good/bad are those? Those types of buttons don't exactly have stellar reputation for holding up over time, that's for sure. I've also seen the mod for the SE-1x as well to give it 'snappier' envelopes. The price is right for a SE-1, but not the envelopes. A pity as it looks pretty much for what I'm after.

Devon

Yes, the ATC-Xi has membrane buttons. They are very responsive and I don't expect them to fail. It's a handmade boutique synth that is extremely well built. The OS EPROM was zapped in my unit (can happen to any synth's EPROM), but S.E. FedEx'd a new one to me immediately). I also purchased a BCR2000, which allows me to access almost all of the parameters in realtime, barely ever needing to touch the unit.

When searching for a nice modern monophonic analog to complement my collection (Jupiter 6, Juno, 909, FS1R, TX81Z, Microwave 1, Odyssey, K2000 & some samplers). I was considering a Pulse as well. But the sonic quality and versatility of the synth was more important to me than having the fastest envelopes in the world. The ATC-XI is a fantastic synth .......Just wish I had more time to work with it (been too busy with other things....).

Good luck on your quest!

-T

[OurDarkness]

The Moog Prodigy has faster envelopes than the Pulse. Also, there exist synthesizers that are 5-6 times faster than the Minimoog.

[alexp]

Originally Posted by OurDarkness

The Moog Prodigy has faster envelopes than the Pulse. Also, there exist synthesizers that are 5-6 times faster than the Minimoog.

Care to name those synths? I'm interested to see that list.

[OurDarkness]

The Technosaurus has an average of 140μs attack time, compared to 700μs on a good Mini. Also the Odyssey is faster. The Serge modular is also very fast, but I didn't get the chance to measure how fast.

[triez]

Oberheim SEM.

[teknosmoker]

Originally Posted by Drone

The new SE-1X nova editions are supposed to have faster envelopes.

It has the same envelopes as the new ATC-Xi.

[Beermaster]

As the original Post mentioned an interest in Modular gear then I would thoroughly recomend Analogue Systems 'Spawn' - a 2u semi modular synth with midi and a whole host of features that make it a superb intro into the modular world whilst still giving you the simplicity of a hardware synth and the compact rack space to boot. Its got a fruity VCO with sub selectable in octave ranges. Check it out !

As far as the fast envelopes go as was said Technosaurus Slector EGs were pretty much as fast as you can get ( remembering that the speed of the EG is only as good as the VCA you connect it to to react to that speed one without the other is no good )

Cwejman EGs are bloody sharp too. I always thing of the VCS3 EGs as snappy but maybe thats just me

Beer

[DevonB]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions, but something seems to be getting lost with the suggestions based on what I'm looking for -

1) Must be rack gear. I do not have space for yet another keyboard.
2) Mot not be modular with patch cables. Again, no space, and if that's what I wanted, I would have bought a Synthesizers Dot Com modular already, and I wouldn't be asking for suggestions. If I had the space, I'd have one now.
3) Must not be old, or at least no older than let's say 10 years. The Matrix 1000 was 'vintage' enough for my taste. Some suggestions have been for gear even older than it.
4) Must have snappy envelopes - I want the bass to thump me in the chest, not just rumble my room.
5) Must have lots of knobs, switches, etc. Since I don't want to be in menus or in cable patching, these are essential.

Does anyone know if I upgraded an SE-1 to an SE-1x, would the motherboard upgrade have the snappier envelopes already? That sounds to be one of the more promising options.

A Neptune II also looks interesting as well.

ATC-Xi looks interesting as well, just not thrilled personally about membrane buttons.

The Futureretro XS looks again to be used with patch cables, but sounds pretty nice at least.

Anything else I've missed? Thanks for all the suggestions.

Any thoughts on the Dave Smith Prophet 8?

Devon

[Beermaster]

Is you dislike of modular gear purely because of space or because you're concerned about understanding how to patch up ? The reason I ask is that having asked about analogue gear that is compact, recent, snappy EGs and a fat sound then you're not going to get much smaller than a 2u size !

Analogue Systems 'Spawn', Pulse, ATCx, are the smallest yet most valid answers to your questions, the difference being that the Spawn also happens to be modular to boot.

Beer.

[DevonB]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

Is you dislike of modular gear purely because of space or because you're concerned about understanding how to patch up ? The reason I ask is that having asked about analogue gear that is compact, recent, snappy EGs and a fat sound then you're not going to get much smaller than a 2u size !

Analogue Systems 'Spawn', Pulse, ATCx, are the smallest yet most valid answers to your questions, the difference being that the Spawn also happens to be modular to boot.

Beer.

Yes, it's all about space at this time. I can go up to 6U in my rack at this point (I might be able to juggle a little more to fit maybe 7U or 8U if needed) but I'd rather have a modular with all the cables in its own rack, and that I just don't have room for at this time. I'm extremely anal, and having cables dangling in front of other gear would drive me nuts. Whenever I can afford to move to a bigger house, I'll probably go that route, but I'm sure that's a long ways off with the economy here in the US at this point. :( Thanks for the suggestions though, appreciated.

Devon

[Fishy1500]

Is there anything the little phatty can do that the voyager can't? If not, might be worthwhile to save just a bit more for the voyager rackmount, or a used voyager.

incidentally, anyone heard of any plans from moog to provide a rack mountable version of the little phatty?

[teknosmoker]

For those who care, here is a short (and pretty bad) demo I threw together quickly that will give you an idea of how fast the envelopes in the newer "Xi model" of the ATC are.

Short staccato bass sound with no resonance. Envelope is pretty short to begin with - Gets faster, then finally has resonance thrown on at the end. No EQ, etc, added, as I wanted to give a "real-life" idea of what the ENVs on the ATC-Xi sound like. Not lightning fast, but they are zippy enough for my needs.


-T

[James Meeker]

Sequential Circuits Pro-One. One of the best sounding, most versatile and snappiest sounding monosynths. Unfortunately the case is second rate and the keyboard action tends to be iffy. If you get one, get a J-wire one.

I had one up until I got a Prophet 5.

Great synth, even with the cheap case and keys.

[kalle1978]

Originally Posted by Fishy1500

incidentally, anyone heard of any plans from moog to provide a rack mountable version of the little phatty?

That would be really cool. Also it would reduce the price!

[DevonB]

Originally Posted by teknosmoker

For those who care, here is a short (and pretty bad) demo I threw together quickly that will give you an idea of how fast the envelopes in the newer "Xi model" of the ATC are.

Short staccato bass sound with no resonance. Envelope is pretty short to begin with - Gets faster, then finally has resonance thrown on at the end. No EQ, etc, added, as I wanted to give a "real-life" idea of what the ENVs on the ATC-Xi sound like. Not lightning fast, but they are zippy enough for my needs.


-T

Awesome demo, thank you so much for taking the time to whip it together AND be in .WAV format. Much more 'snap' than my Matrix. Hmmmm.... Decisions decisions. You just made it tougher for me.

Devon

[DevonB]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

In spite of the need for 'lots of knobs', I still say get a Pulse. Very snappy envelopes, and good god is it a sonic monster! And the editing really isn't that bad. The editing matrix is very easy to get around. It's worth the effort.

I already got the least amount of knobs on an analog in the universe with a Matrix 1000. What I'm doing is setting up 2 racks, one with lots of knobs, the other with little to no control in the other. I want hands on. Digging through menus is just too much of a pain in the arse for me to be bothered when it's very likely I'll want to edit on this unit.

Devon