Mixing board for electronic music

[pyelagin]

Hi Everyone,

I'm thinking that in near future I might be upgrading my mixing desk... I'm using 16 chanel Maki now and pretty happy with it but... I do lots of basic production in MIDI before recording into audio that sort of results in mixing withing synths rather than mixer... So I've been thinking that analog board with automation where you can recall your mixes would be right upgrade for me... Don't want go for high end board however (would be happy with something like Maki I have but with automation)... Any recomendations?

Thanks,
Peter

[Reptil]

SSL Matrix?
there isn't much stuff with automation that is cheaper.

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by Reptil

SSL Matrix?
there isn't much stuff with automation that is cheaper.

SSL?!? The SSL Matrix sounds lovely at 16 ch for just under 25K.

For that much, I would rather score a ProTools HD rig with Waves SSL plug-ins for a lot less. I would get awesome ITB summing and more tracks to boot.

Or you could get a Yamaha 02R-96V2 for just under 10K for that matter.

pyelagin, you mentioned you did not want to go for a high end board...you could score an older Yamaha 02R for around 1K on eBay. The 02r mixers are digital boards though, not analog. They both have nice automation though.

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by pyelagin

Hi Everyone,

I've been thinking that analog board with automation where you can recall your mixes would be right upgrade for me... Don't want go for high end board however (would be happy with something like Maki I have but with automation)... Any recomendations?

Hmm. I am not aware of any analog boards with automation that are not high-end boards.

I think the cheapest solution would be a used Euphonix CS2000 or CS3000, or an old Tactile Technologies board if you can find one, but those are pretty rare.

[spsnoise]

Might not be as in depth with the automation as you're looking for, but a Soundtracs PC Midi board has solid pres and eq, as well as midi automated mutes and solos. I picked up a 16 channel version about 6 months ago and have been happy, though I'd still like to try out some boutique preamps to compare them to.

[pyelagin]

In terms of Soundtracs PC Midi the faders are not automated, right? Are the levels in general?

[spsnoise]

No levels at all, just mute and solo.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Popbott

SSL?!? The SSL Matrix sounds lovely at 16 ch for just under 25K.

For that much, I would rather score a ProTools HD rig with Waves SSL plug-ins for a lot less. I would get awesome ITB summing and more tracks to boot.

Or you could get a Yamaha 02R-96V2 for just under 10K for that matter.
..snip...

go right ahead. LOL don't let me stop you. you could probably find either one for a very nice price, since ppl. are dumping these.

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

..snip..
I think the cheapest solution would be a used Euphonix CS2000 or CS3000, or an old Tactile Technologies board if you can find one, but those are pretty rare.

I read posts all the time that ppl. love their Euphonix but that they require lots of maintenance. that scared me off.
there are maybe some other solutions, but I have not tested these, and they are to be considered experimental.

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by Reptil

go right ahead. LOL don't let me stop you. you could probably find either one for a very nice price, since ppl. (abr; people) are dumping these.

Yes, producers are dumping their O2R-96V's and buying HD systems all the time. F*** it then, why not just take your tracks to an SSL studio and mix there.

Originally Posted by pyelagin

Don't want go for high end board

Any 02R is a good alternative with automation, to the SSL Matrix, without having to go "high end". It may not be the best solution, but better than going with an automated Tascam or Mackie crap.

[Reptil]

LOL
you're allowing yourself quite some leeway popbott. I might eat you mechanical arm, next time round. even if it tastes like smelly AD converters.
mwwwrrrrrrurrffff

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by Reptil

LOL
you're allowing yourself quite some leeway popbott. I might eat you mechanical arm, next time round. even if it tastes like smelly AD converters.
mwwwrrrrrrurrffff

Universal Audio 2192 smelly converters....mmmmmm.

[Chrisac]

personally speaking I think the Mackie VLZ can be a great desk. It doesnt work for everyone but if you have the right combination of gear the VLZ can shine and you do you say your pretty happy with it. Why rock the boat because just getting fader automation is a waste of time imo, and your not going to get a full recall analog console for anything like the same price range as the Mackie. When I tried to upgrade from my Mackie SR and went through many consoles costing much more little did I know at the time that my gear just seemed to gel with the Mackie and hence mixes were better. And I much prefer the SR VLZ range to the 8 Buss which I always thought was a cold bleak sounding console.

[DevonB]

Plenty of cheap digital boards with automation -

Yamaha 01x - Ebay $400-$500 bucks. Flying faders and recall. Only 8 inputs, but if you get slightly creative, buy two and sub mix the output, you'd be in at under $1000.

Yamaha 01V96 - Ebay $1500 bucks. 16 inputs, recall, blah blah blah. Big brother of the 01x.

I'm positive there is more, but that's all I could come up with off the top of my head.

Devon

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Popbott

Universal Audio 2192 smelly converters....mmmmmm.

O2r smelly converters pffttth pffttth pffttth yuch! ngggggggggggggggggg *flup*
- lol

Originally Posted by Chrisac

personally speaking I think the Mackie VLZ can be a great desk. It doesnt work for everyone but if you have the right combination of gear the VLZ can shine and you do you say your pretty happy with it. ....snip...

agree... but it takes some care. don't overload it. headroom is virtually non existent, and you'll need some line amp to bump the signal if working with other gear that is +10 input or +4 or anything above 0 dBu.
-*-

euuuummmm a console with automation is NOT the same as a digital mixer is NOT the same as a controller with AD-DA. you might think it roughly is but the workflow is essentially DIFFERENT!!

if you'd ask, what is a nice digital mixer.. well... eeeehmmm db8? with some 3rd party converters?? a nice controller? euphonix, or radikal technologies SAC, Mackie Control?
thets jes ma opinionnnn

[lu432]

Bro Honestly with that type of budget I would get the entire Empirical Audio line of productions, a nice LA2A, A Shadow Hills Pre, and a couple of nice compresors (747, Manley Varible Mu), and Even an Eventide H' seris outboard effects unit (All used so it could fit your budget). And maybe a nice TT patchbay. But console's outside a mackie console isn't really necessary these days. I actually find it combersome to be working constantly on different consoles all the time. I think its best to just work with one that you already know well, and upgrade your outboard gear, so as to upgrade your sound.

[alexstringer]

Originally Posted by Reptil

I read posts all the time that ppl. love their Euphonix but that they require lots of maintenance. that scared me off.

Euphonix requires lots a maintenance?
That's total misinformation man, the design of Euphonix is such innovative that all analog circuitry reside in a tower, contrary to a regular console were all circuitry reside under the board.

So whereas on a regular analog console, the heat generated within the board is gonna often burn out a capacitor or a led, on a Euphonix, that's not happening, plus all knobs on the console never get noisy or scratchy since they are sending infos optically directly to the Mixview plateform which control the analog section instantly!

So basically w/ Euphonix, you're running a reasonably quiet system with almost no heat generated from the board.

As a matter of fact, i suggest anyone who wants a large format analog console that require very little to no maintenance to go for a Euphonix. You won't find better!

But to answer Peter's question, get an entry level Yamaha digital mixer, they are cheap, functional, you can use its faders as midi controllers and record the automation of the faders to whatever task you want to assign them to... If you're on a budget (and i know you are), don't look any further Pal !

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by alexstringer

Euphonix requires lots a maintenance?
That's total misinformation man, the design of Euphonix is such innovative that all analog circuitry reside in a tower, contrary to a regular console were all circuitry reside under the board.

So whereas on a regular analog console, the heat generated within the board is gonna often burn out a capacitor or a led, on a Euphonix, that's not happening, plus all knobs on the console never get noisy or scratchy since they are sending infos optically directly to the Mixview plateform which control the analog section instantly!

So basically w/ Euphonix, you're running a reasonably quiet system with almost no heat generated from the board.

As a matter of fact, i suggest anyone who wants a large format analog console that require very little to no maintenance to go for a Euphonix. You won't find better!

...snip..

thanks for the helpful info!
not looking really for a new board, trying to put one together.

[ill electro]

the tascam dm24 can be found for peanuts these days. they have IMHO good pres.i dont use word clock but my buddy says its good.. he also told me its the same clock used by Black Lion in their clock uprgades...

[DSMrehearsal]

what is your budget?

[krisstoff]

I would be looking at something secondhand if you have the room - an Amek, DDA, Chiltern soundtracs and older soundcrafts. Although big i do think they are much better than something like a 8 buss or a ghost. I picked up an Amek BC2 for £500 a few months ago so they are out there.

Good look

[crufty]

If everything is done via midi, have you considered using midi volume / pan etc instead of fader automation...a thought anyway. unity gain and automate from your sequencer! ha. not as sexy or slutty though.

[pyelagin]

That's what I'm doing at this point... I'm mixing everything in the MIDI in the Outboard... Sort of strange and time consuming way to do it...

How much that Tascam Dm24 goes for? Do they come up on Ebay often?

I do not want spend more than $1500 so my option is probably buy something used... But full automation is very important... I need to be able to recall the mix...

[ill electro]

ive seen dm24 go for as cheap as $600 on ebay. thats without adat expansion and meter bridge. For the features it has it really cannot be beat for the money. get yourself a Motu 2408mk3 and dm24 and your all set. the dm24 has 3 tdif ports standard. you can set it up so you have 16i/o and 8efx send/returns. talk about flexabilty. and record 24/96 on ALL CHANNELS !!!!!!!!

[Popbott]

A friend of mine works for a large chain music store where I live and told me that he has seen every unit sold come back for service. Anyone have problems with their DM-24?

[jude]

Originally Posted by krisstoff

I would be looking at something secondhand if you have the room - an Amek, DDA, Chiltern soundtracs and older soundcrafts. Although big i do think they are much better than something like a 8 buss or a ghost. I picked up an Amek BC2 for £500 a few months ago so they are out there.

Good look

im loving my DDA Interface. its doing wonders for my mixing and workflow

everything sounds so much better with a nice desk

(that said, i really want the DDA Q2 48 channel desk!!!)

[pippismo]

maybe it's not what you are looking for, but why not do the mixing ITB with a mackie universal controller and the get an Apogee Symphony with a DA-16 and get a summing box like the Dangerous Music or the Shadow Hills Equinox? I believe with less than 10K you could get pretty good results, does it make sense?

[Reptil]

tascam 3500 is a good desk - add a (Euphonix) controller and *done*

- dunno bout the DM-24 sorry

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by Reptil

tascam 3500 is a good desk - add a (Euphonix) controller and *done*

It looks purdy, is it hard to service?

My new desk..! Ahhhh, removable channel strips. Looking forward to doing some re-capping and the Jim Williams upgrade in a few weeks.

Thanks to Rolo from GS for making it happen! Thanks Rollie!

[joshuag]

just bought a Speck S72 from a fellow local Slut. basically a high quality 40 channel 8 bus line mixer with EQ on every channel, and two channels of jensen based preamps. similar to the speck xtra mix but in a console format and with EQ. seems perfect for an electronic based studio like mine. i'll just be adding on more outboard in the future. i'm so excited to get it hooked up, i've had to completely tear down my studio and re configure my basement which has my gear and my wife's office to fit this in. should have it up and running by this weekend.

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Finally coming out of the box, eh? It's about damn time. I think it will help your mixes immensely, dude!

Yeah man, I have been wanting to do that because mixing in Protools LE sounds too similar to mixing with my Mackie 1604. (The big jump in sound improvement is in PT HD). I was looking at actually getting a Yamaha 02R, they are about a grand on eBay these days. Everyone kept telling me not to do the 02R thing because they sound like sh*t, but I have never heard one. I just want better separation, on my synths, better summing than PT LE. I will let you know how it goes DC!!!