sorry , old analog tape guy needs advice on synths

[gevermil]

I have a old school set up .
1" 1967 scully 8 track
a simple passive mixer and some descent pres .

Im looking for a good keyboard to record to tape . Something that sounds Good ,
has good samples and sounds realistic . No bells or whistles just good organic sounds .
I guess something in the 500.00 range ?
Any of you young'ns want to help grandpa across the street ?
Thanks

You're proabaly looking for some sort of Workstation? Not something that can create new original sounds but something that has "real" sounds (organs, pianos, strings) in it, right?

Maybe the Korg Trinity would be something for you. It's quite an old machine and can only be bought used, but I think it's the only good thing that is in your price range unless you want to work with a computer. Then something like Native Instruments Kontakt 3 would be great for you. Its sounds are even more realistic, but you might need a USB master keyboard for your computer to play the software.

[alexp]

Originally Posted by thx1138

You're proabaly looking for some sort of Workstation? Not something that can create new original sounds but something that has "real" sounds (organs, pianos, strings) in it, right?

Maybe the Korg Trinity would be something for you. It's quite an old machine and can only be bought used, but I think it's the only good thing that is in your price range unless you want to work with a computer. Then something like Native Instruments Kontakt 3 would be great for you. Its sounds are even more realistic, but you might need a USB master keyboard for your computer to play the software.

Totally agree here, the Trinity would really do something for you I think.

[gevermil]

Work station - meaning an interface with a bank of samples ?
Im not well versed in whats available .
Yes , I guess I mean something independant of the computer .
Thanks for the replys guys
thumbsup

[Rufuss Sewell]

You see Kurzweil K2000's going pretty cheap now. They have great natural sounds, and tons of free samples available on line. Make sure to get one with maxed ram (64mb I think) and don't pay extra for the sampler if you're not planning on recording your own samples with it. All you need is the ram to play back samples. Try to find one with the orchestral and contemporary cards installed.

[gevermil]

Well , I guess I didnt think this through well enough and should have read the forum a bit more . I really appreciate the replys . It seems like ebay has the korg trinity and the Kurzweil K2000's going for roughly 500 on ebone . theres this one on craigs list
http://chicago.***************/chc/msg/576650189.html .

OR I can get an old mac (G4) from my Nephew and buy an interface and some soft ware right ? Would that be of better quality than a work station ?
Sorry guys , I know this is a pain , I wont post after this . Just need a litle more dirrection and Im off .
Piano , Strings , Maybe some neato 70s analog things .
Thanks
Gary

[Reptil]

yep, you'll need keys to go with the computer anyway.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Grab that K2000! You won't be sorry. The sounds are great. And like I said there are tons of free sound on the net.

A G4 is pitifully inferior to modern Macs. I'm typing this on one now! haha. But I'd only use this powerbook for internet and some basic sequencing on an airplne or something. Get to know that K2000, then save up for a nice MacBook or something.

By the way, the K2000 is considered one of the first virtual analogs. It produces analog type waveforms in addition to playing back samples. Is essence it's both a synth and a sampler. As a result there are tons of analog emulations out there to download. There's also an active Kurzweil community at SonikMatter.com that has almost 20 years of tutorials, sounds and discussions.

[blue monk]

ok gevermil,

workstation is a term for a keyboard that is supposed to be an allround-solution including drumsounds and a sequencer.
the first one was the korg m1.

i would also prefer the kurzweil over a korg and the k2500 over the k2000 because it has a brighter display than the k2000 (also other improvements but the display is the most obvious).
that makes the k2500 more usable.
with an anlogue-expansion board (that is a ROM cartridge that can be optionally bought to add new waveforms to create sounds with using the synthesizer`s filters etc.) it can also produce pretty good analogue synth sounds.

kurzweil are known for sounding "expensive" and have a powerfull synthesis engine (makes them flexible when creating new sounds).

a good alternative could be a roland jv-80/jv-90.

for a real analogue that you can quickly switch sound i would recommend an oberheim ob-sx.
i was told that the artist formally... prince has worked a lot with that.
it s possibilities of creating your own sounds are very limited but sounds warm and you can work quickly with it. it might be something for you if you don t insist of creating every sound you use from scratch.
being a preset keyboard it will be more affordable than other classics.
i think it didn t have midi originally so might want to look for one that has midi built in.
Vintage Synth Explorer - Oberheim OB-SX
vintage synth`s estimated valie Est. Value - $150 - $350 makes the ob-sx interesting as an add-on to your setup.

the polymoog has a comparable concept like the ob-sx
Vintage Synth Explorer - Moog Polymoog


i almost forgot: realism.
you got to know what s possible and what isn t.
it really depends on the level of realism you want and which kind of sound you want to use.
if you want realistic guitar sounds, orchestra or rhodes, grand piano etc. then you will certainly be able to hear the difference between your keyboard and the real thing.
the most recent software instruments sometimes have very big sample libraries and may have more realistic results - if that is what you want.
especially guitar or brass would be hopeless for a keyboard if you ask me.
there are very realistic software instruments for piano and rhodes though.
that doesn t mean that workstation sounds are not good. but you have to know with what level of realism you are happy if it comes to emulating real instruments (string, brass, drums, guitar, piano...).
a big advantage of a workstation is that every sound is instant-on - no loading time from any hardware. and you have a chance being happy with one of the mentioned keyboards (korg, kurzweil, roland).

[gsilbers]

Originally Posted by gevermil

Well , I guess I didnt think this through well enough and should have read the forum a bit more . I really appreciate the replys . It seems like ebay has the korg trinity and the Kurzweil K2000's going for roughly 500 on ebone . theres this one on craigs list
Kurzweil K2000 .

OR I can get an old mac (G4) from my Nephew and buy an interface and some soft ware right ? Would that be of better quality than a work station ?
Sorry guys , I know this is a pain , I wont post after this . Just need a litle more dirrection and Im off .
Piano , Strings , Maybe some neato 70s analog things .
Thanks
Gary

ill have to go oposite from the rest of the guys here.
i think getting a compouter like u mentioned and a audio interface will get you way more than any keyboard/synth workstation.

with a mac you can start with garageband and from there learn the ropes of doing audio with computers. not saying you should turn into the garageband crowd and use its loops but it comes with lots of sounds that are as good as all the synth workstations out there.

im more pro of outboard synths and real analog stuff but for your case if you are looking for piano, strings, and multi sampled stff i think software has much more of an advantage cause you can get very realistic stuff from EXS instruments up to vienna stuff.
and its alwaysd exandable and not get stuck with a workstation that has alimited amount of RAM/ROm to store stuff.


basically all of those old samplers and used synth workstations are going cheap in the market is because they went obsolete when something like garageband can have 20 time more sounds and samples for "free" (still need the mac)

[The Architecture]

Originally Posted by gevermil

I have a old school set up .
1" 1967 scully 8 track
a simple passive mixer and some descent pres .

Im looking for a good keyboard to record to tape . Something that sounds Good ,
has good samples and sounds realistic . No bells or whistles just good organic sounds .
I guess something in the 500.00 range ?
Any of you young'ns want to help grandpa across the street ?
Thanks

Nice, a Scully! I have a Scully 280 1/4" 2 track machine as well as a Teac 3340S, and im only 21. If there is one thing analog that really makes the different in recording quality, its reel to reel. I have analog synths, but it really begins to get that analog sound once you mix it into a reel to reel deck.

I agree with the K2000, its sounds like it would be the best for your situation. If I didn't have so much stuff right now I might get one as well, but priority takes place, gotta get an MPC 2000xl now.

[triez]

Another vote for the Kurzweil 2000, as far a way from the Japanese tinsel and fluff over-processed sound as you can get, just good solid synthesis and sampling.

Here is the best 2 acid tests of any digital synth or workstation that you are looking at:

1: Turn off all of the internal effects and processing and listen to the raw sounds. J-synths use lots of delays and reverbs on their patches which sound spectacular in the showroom, but they are there to disguise thin sounding patches, and they clutter up your mix.

2: Check and see how many layers the J-synths use to get their sounds. Usually lots. Better to have a synth that can make a fat sound without layering up lots of waveforms or samples. You don't want the wow factor of huge sounding patches that are a sonic mess, they just clutter things up when you record them.

If the K2000 has the sampling option installed, you can sample your own sounds, it it doesn't you can load samples from most companies via floppy or SCSI, or put a cheap hard drive inside, the drive power cable is in the machine already, you just need a ribbon cable. Also, SCSI Zip drives are available all over Ebay.

[Rufuss Sewell]

For $500 I just don't think he's going to get what he needs in a computer. So, the obsolete K2000 for $525 is the way to go.

Blue monk, there is no analog expansion board for the K2000. It generates all the wave forms, LFO's, envelopes, and filters you need stock. It really is a virtual analog. The K2500 is better because of the KDFX option, 128mb of ram, 48 voice poly, and the triple strike piano. I have the K2600 which is still a pretty amazing synth by modern standards. But those won't be $500.

And I love analogs as much as the next guy. I have a pretty huge collection myself. But the guy asked for samples. You can't make an analog sound like a piano.

Does the K2000 have internal generic sounds? Don't you have to buy expansion cards to get more samples? Anyway the K2000 isn't bad at all, I just immediately thought of the Korg Trinitiy because it already comes with everything you'd ever want.

Kontakt with its huuuge library is the better option but if he would have to buy a new computer + audio interface + keyboard just for that it isn't.

Anyway the suggestions so far aren't bad at all.

[rjd2]

Originally Posted by gevermil

Something that sounds Good ,
has good samples and sounds realistic .

am i the only one that sees a bit of a discrepancy between these? i would just hate for you to buy something without hearing it on ebay, and realize you blew your budget on something that doesnt sound "realistic". the only samples that ever sounded realistic to ME were the nord electro series.

i think you may want to think about which features are more important, sound or versatility. or at least listen to some sound clips. if you go to youtube, search a particular keyboard, you can often find demos.

best of luck!

[Rufuss Sewell]

Originally Posted by thx1138

Does the K2000 have internal generic sounds? Don't you have to buy expansion cards to get more samples?

The K2000 comes with a complete set of bread and butter sounds. You can also buy orchestral and contemporary roms. But the contemporary rom isn't so contemporary!

Otherwise as long as it has sample ram installed (up to 64mb) you can load wav files or any number of .krz files of which there are countless on line.

[dlmorley]

For $500 a K2000 is really a great thing. I find them tricky to use but never really dedicated the time to it.
Still, I prefer the sound to the recent generation of sample based synths..
Then again, you can get something like an Akai S6000 sampler for the same these days and that is also a serious machine.

[steveman]

Originally Posted by blue monk

Vintage Synth Explorer - Oberheim OB-SX
vintage synth`s estimated valie Est. Value - $150 - $350 makes the ob-sx interesting as an add-on to your setup.

the polymoog has a comparable concept like the ob-sx
Vintage Synth Explorer - Moog Polymoog

I really wouldn't go by those prices on VSE. Those pages haven't been updated for years. They have the OB-X for $450... in your dreams, more like 3 times that price.

I'd say someone who's new to synths won't want to be dealing with vintage analogue, and it's potential maintainance problems.