Advantages of audio tracks vs. instrument tracks

[Mr.Pibb]

I recently read a guy's production approach is to write say, a bassline for example, using a virtual instrument then converting it to an audio track before working with it any further. What are the benefits of editing and working with the converted audio track, as opposed to just working with the original instrument track?

[joshuag]

main benifit of bouncing virtual instruments to audio is to save processor power. make sure and save your instrument patch and midi file though if you want to make changes later.

[chrisso]

The main advantage of staying with the virtual instrument (live), is the continuing ability to completely change the part.
If you are really set on the part, record it.
Editing audio is best for arrangement changes IMO, rather than part changes, although both are possible.

[teknosmoker]

Originally Posted by Mr.Pibb

What are the benefits of editing and working with the converted audio track, as opposed to just working with the original instrument track?

When you're working with just audio in your DAW, it's easy to chop up & process parts, just as one might do when recording & mixing "traditional" (i.e. - non-electronic) music -- but also incorporating son "non-traditional" edits. For example, if you wanted to take the last 2 beats of a 4 bar section of your entire song and reverse them (or s t u t t e r, process them, etc..), it's be MUCH easier to do if everything is tracked as audio.

Just a very basic example, but you get the idea....



-T

[Beermaster]

Apples for Pears.

I guess it all depends on what your set up is. If you're not using any hardware synths then your computer may struggle to playback everything live from virtual instruments so as was said rendering it down to an audio track is a better answer.

The downside to this is that it can slow down a lot of the creativity on the fly. I find that I often replay instrument lines as I'm writing, things change as the track develops so for example I might play in a tighter bass line that phrases more with say a funky Rhodes part that was just added. This in turn may make me re-do the Kick and hats line which may make me want to change the phrasing of the lead line. Things happen fast in the kitchen and it vital to grab the inspiration as fast as possible. Working with a pre-recorded line does mean that you lose the 'moment' of devine inspiration - ha ha ! then its a lot more hassle to re-record it.

Rendering it at the end when you're happy with the complete track is the best answer.

Of course its a matter of personal taste and not everyone has the gear to have it all live with no audio rendering

Beer

[aeonsound]

the main advantages for me are twofold:

firstly, as already mentioned, audio offers unrivalled editability. you are free to pitchshift, reverse, chop, bitreduce, loop, splice, mangle or otherwise process your audio sample in a near-infinite number of ways. rather than being a limiting factor, this can actually enhance your creativity.

secondly, it encourages you to finish sounds and move on. once you have committed a midi pattern to audio, the inclination to tinker endlessly with minute settings fades and you're forced to work with what you've got. when you use a lot of midi channels etc. this can be quite liberating in workflow terms.

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by aeonsound

the main advantages for me are twofold:

firstly, as already mentioned, audio offers unrivalled editability.

I disagree. When recording VI's, you have more edit options when it's still MIDI data.

secondly, it encourages you to finish sounds and move on. once you have committed a midi pattern to audio, the inclination to tinker endlessly with minute settings fades and you're forced to work with what you've got.

Totally agree... I'm a tinkerer, which is why I never finish anything*. Time to convert to audio.


* not strictly true, but I don't finish more than I do.

[chrisso]

Yes to the above.

The editability is apples and oranges.
With audio you can perform reverse audio and similar FX.
But pitch-change and performance edits are much better in midi I think.

I agree with the recording parts and moving on philosophy however.


When I did film & tv scores though, the ability to quickly edit and rewrite parts right up to the final mix was essential. I found midi much easier than audio.

[dcwave]

I write with midi and VIs but once I am satisfied with the composition I bounce to audio and mix from there. The audio session is a new session. If I need to go back and change line then I re-open the last midi/VI session.

Frees up CPU and memory and lets me approach the process like I was recording and mixing a well rehearsed band. I can also do some creative edits with audio that might be more difficult with midi.

[Beermaster]

For my work on TV shows and cartoons it has to be done as fast as possible with the max amount flexible editing as possible. New film edits, changes of opinions looming deadlines and series production schedules.

I have it all live and all as instruments. I'd love to have the time to render down as audio and mess around but to be honest I don't get the time to do a separate mix so Its all don on the fly.

When I'm working on songs for friends during down times then it is nice to render out audio tracks but I disagree with the concept of rendering one layer of the song down before the next layer is worked out or written. Different layers of an arrangement should work with other layers and interact be it coming up with a new idea for one that then affects the other or dovetails to create the complete track. Rendering one line out then creates a much more 'set' less flexible track that for many reasons 'musically' restricts what the next layer could be doing - Pitch shifting audio is never as good as transposing and modulating the original midi likewise quantizing audio and groove shifting is never as good as playing in the new version - when it comes down to trying out say an acoustic guitar instead of the acoustic piano you've been using all along on that intro riff - audio is stuffed but Midi doesn't blink.

But hey, Maybe I'm just old fashioned !

Beer

[dcwave]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

For my work on TV shows and cartoons it has to be done as fast as possible with the max amount flexible editing as possible. New film edits, changes of opinions looming deadlines and series production schedules.




But hey, Maybe I'm just old fashioned !

Beer

When you work this way, are all your instruments in one box or do you run slave machines?

Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it) any TV or film work I have done hasn't been such a nature to have too many changes once video is locked. Of course, using Cubase 4.1 and its more flexible routing, I can render all midi to audio in one pass.

[chrisso]

Speaking personally I don't use many softsynths or plug-ins.

If I did, I'd still have to find a way to stay live.
This is the bugbear of the film/tv scorer, a director wanting to hear 'all the options', and the list of final edits and requests arriving the night before the audio dub.
It's quite common to offer different music options they can decide on as they mix.
I've known composers to take a keyboard to the mix and be playing new stuff in.