oberheim matrix-6 vs. dave smith prophet '08

[waveplant]

i know the presence of realtime control puts the prophet 08 in a different league than the matrix, but that aside, but i was wondering if anyone with experience with both could comment on how the sounds of these compare, since they have very similar specs.

[Jazzpunk]

Hate to ask the obvious question but which one sounds better to you?!

[Edward]

Well I've used the M1000 a bit and I've only tried the Prophet for 30 mins in a shop but I would rather have the M1000 as far as sounds go. Of course it's rubbish for editing, although the Access programmer is cool for minor tweaks.

[tony666]

I can only give comments on the sound generating chips used in those synths. The CEM 3396 (as in M1000, M6, Cheetah ms6 ) has a darker sound, has a somehow missing low end but has a very distinctive 80's sound . It can sound really good with some effects etc...

The Marion Prosynth uses the same voice chips as the new prophet08 (but probably slower envelopes , noisier ...). The sound is more open/modern/better low end .

[GrantB]

Well here comes the guy who happens to have both right now, and here is his opinionated opinion:

There is nothing about the sound of the P08 that isn't better than the M6. It seems smoother, fatter, thinner, more liquid, higher resolution, blablabla. It's true that all the curtis synths can sound similar, and the P08 can make those sounds, just way better. Like buttah. The only thing better about the M6 is the somewhat more solid keyboard with release velocity.

So.... for sale (Seattle only) to a good home:
Matrix 6 minty w/stuff $340 <-- major M6-P08 spec difference!!!
Pro One Jwire good cond $600 nastier than P08 but still redundant in my rig

DCOs staying:
MKS-50 w PG-300 gotta have a Roland poly
Evolver Desktop the P08 does _not_ do what this does
Synth Lite II too nifty

DCOs on the fence:
SQ-80
This can get a lot of M6 sounds, plus a lot you can't get on M6 (or P08) and is much easier to program. Not as quite as fat though.

[The_Crooked_Man]

That's an odd comparison. Probably a better one (by price and specs) would be a Expander vs. a Prophet 8.

[rachel]

Mmmm, MKS-50, it deserves a thread all on its own.

I have one of these, with a PG-300 permanently attached (to the front port of an AMT) and
I can just tweak it while recording into Logic. I love the sound, which is very creamy.

I haven't got an Oberheim, but I do have a Sequential Multitrak which is a real weird
synth. Very low budget but it has a lot of features. It's got a Curtis 3394 synth on a
chip for every voice, so you can stack sounds and layers and sequence. I sort of
compare it to the Matrix 6, but it's not as deep. My Multitrak has spent a long time in and
out of favour, as it has always been a bit sick, but recently some guy in Austria uncovered
the design flaw that left Multitraks all over the world languishing in cupboards and
I got the hack done and it works like brand new! I think the multitrak is very much
related to the Evolver, since they have many things in common, such as UI, sequencer
and so on.

I am not sure how far the Multi covers the Matrix 6, but I did a whole soundtrack for an
art show with it and it sounded great.

edit - the 615 doesn't have 3394's - they are very similar though.



rachel

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Drone

Your right, it is in a different league.

Matrix 6R...................................Prophet 8

12 osc's .......................16 osc's with additional mod controls
1 filter for 6 voices............ .....8 Filters for 8 voices
basic multitimbral......... ....voice allocation per layer "4 per voice" in stack mode
sequencer None .............16 X 4 "step sequencer with gate/filtering
arpeggios None ..... ....4 modes which can be combined with sequencer
2 lfos ..............................................32 lfos
resonant filter"bandpass".... 2 / 4 pole "lowpass" filters with ADSR & delay

How can the Matrix 1000 have 1 filter for 6 voices?
It is 6 voice polyphonic and each voice has a filter...

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by Drone

Yes thanks for the correction. 1 filter for each voice.
Prophet 8 has made significant improvement's on these filters though. thumbsup

I can believe it!
I think the matrix series are excellent for the money, but nothing to write home about. Excellent value though.
I think the P8 is possibly worth trying out

[James Meeker]

I haven't played the Prophet 08 yet, but I have owned a Prophet 5 for about 8 years. I have owned a Matrix 6R in the past and thought it was a great "bang for the buck" synth. Not as huge as other Oberheims, but very flexible and decent for FX, pads and leads.

Seeing as they occupy totally different price ranges I think comparing them is difficult.

My suspicion is that when the consensus comes around people will consider the Prophet 08 inferior sounding to even the rev 3 Prophet 5's, which may end up in a lot of people buying 08's and then dumping them to get a vintage unit. Just a guess though.

That being said I'd wait until more is known about the 08's. Maybe you can pick one up slightly used at a discount. Or you can go for the "real deal" and get a Prophet 5. Mine (rev 3.2 with factory MIDI retrofit) has worked fabulously since I had it repaired (when I first bought it it was "dead") and they are excellent sounding polysynths. It even keeps great tuning.

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I haven't played the Prophet 08 yet, but I have owned a Prophet 5 for about 8 years. I have owned a Matrix 6R in the past and thought it was a great "bang for the buck" synth. Not as huge as other Oberheims, but very flexible and decent for FX, pads and leads.

Seeing as they occupy totally different price ranges I think comparing them is difficult.

My suspicion is that when the consensus comes around people will consider the Prophet 08 inferior sounding to even the rev 3 Prophet 5's, which may end up in a lot of people buying 08's and then dumping them to get a vintage unit. Just a guess though.

That being said I'd wait until more is known about the 08's. Maybe you can pick one up slightly used at a discount. Or you can go for the "real deal" and get a Prophet 5. Mine (rev 3.2 with factory MIDI retrofit) has worked fabulously since I had it repaired (when I first bought it it was "dead") and they are excellent sounding polysynths. It even keeps great tuning.

I would say that many buying the new prophet will not compare it directly to a prophet 5 but rather to other current competitors. That is sounds cleaner than other vintage pieces like a p-5 or matrix is no surprise, this is the general tendency of all of the newer serious analog emulation relative to older gear.

Best not to judge them too closely to the originals, as they're different animals. Judge them on how they sound vis-a-vis today's sounds.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by analogbass

That is sounds cleaner than other vintage pieces like a p-5 or matrix is no surprise, this is the general tendency of all of the newer serious analog emulation relative to older gear.

Best not to judge them too closely to the originals, as they're different animals. Judge them on how they sound vis-a-vis today's sounds.

That's because I've found that there is no comparison between the glorious analogs of old versus the wheezy new ones.

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

That's because I've found that there is no comparison between the glorious analogs of old versus the wheezy new ones.

Many might alread know and agree with that, but the newer stuff does in fact offer some different qualities whether subjectively better or worse. Including the fact that the sounds are more consistent with what is in vogue now, more flexible, etc.

Given the difference of almost 3 decades in design and parts, it's fairer to compare against contemporaries, and more effective IMO to combine qualities of both new and old.

Too much reliance/fascination on only vintage gear can in fact result in a dated sound.

[GrantB]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

My suspicion is that when the consensus comes around people will consider the Prophet 08 inferior sounding to even the rev 3 Prophet 5's, which may end up in a lot of people buying 08's and then dumping them to get a vintage unit. Just a guess though.

Uh, no. Not this people. You can keep your consensus and your P5, I'm keeping the 08.

[cub005@yahoo.co.]

the pro8 wasn't intended as prophet five replacement , which is what Dave Smith said to begin with. As folks have said on other fora , the sound is set halfway between the cleaner new sound that producers prefer ( partic. at the top end of the keyboard for the clean highs), and the pro5. I've tried out at GC and thought it sounded great , + different from the evolver.

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by cub005@yahoo.co.

the pro8 wasn't intended as prophet five replacement , which is what Dave Smith said. As folks have said on other fora , the sound is set halfway between the cleaner new sound that producers prefer, and the pro5. I've tried out at GC and thought it sounded great , + different from the evolver.

Precisely; it's a different animal, as are most/all of the newer stuff. While older gear may in general sound better to many, newer equipment has qualities all it's own.

[James Meeker]

That's because there is NO replacement!



Take it easy guys, I'm just being a cheeky analog synth snob. I'm sure the Prophet 08 is a good synth, although I was a bit put off by the look of the construction, the stupid place they put the pitch/mod wheels (reminds me of a Kawai design idea) and doubt it will have that classic sound.

Myself I like the dated sounds. It's exactly what I want for analog sounds. I'm not sure there's anything on the market that sounds really new enough to get me excited. The Hartmann Neuron looked like it could have been, but I think we're a few years away from that concept bearing a lot of fruit.

[GrantB]

Originally Posted by analogbass

Precisely; it's a different animal, as are most/all of the newer stuff. While older gear may in general sound better to many, newer equipment has qualities all it's own.

That said, there is not enough of a difference that even a curmudgeonly old prog rocker shouldn't love the P08. P5 players will find that the 08 makes some very familiar sounds, and does them well.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by analogbass

Precisely; it's a different animal, as are most/all of the newer stuff. While older gear may in general sound better to many, newer equipment has qualities all it's own.

Damn dude, give it a rest. Three posts in here already saying the same things you always say. We all got what you were saying the first time so I don't see why you feel the need to keep posting the same opinion over and over. We all know your personal biases so no need to spam the boards just because you think your opinion is more important than that of other peoples lol!

(and yes those are some of your own words coming back at you to illustrate just what a hypocritical twat you can be!)

Cheers fuuck

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

That's because there is NO replacement!



Take it easy guys, I'm just being a cheeky analog synth snob. I'm sure the Prophet 08 is a good synth, although I was a bit put off by the look of the construction, the stupid place they put the pitch/mod wheels (reminds me of a Kawai design idea) and doubt it will have that classic sound.

Hey James, it's all good. All opinions are welcome here. You'll save yourself alot of grief if you just learn to ignore analogbass. He's really the only guy around here who actually believes that the opinions he states are facts and that no one else is entitled to having their own unique take on things.

The rest of us actually welcome a nice healthy discussion (and yes, even debate!) on all things synthesis.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Hey James, it's all good. All opinions are welcome here. You'll save yourself alot of grief if you just learn to ignore analogbass. He's really the only guy around here who actually believes that the opinions he states are facts and that no one else is entitled to having their own unique take on things.

The rest of us actually welcome a nice healthy discussion (and yes, even debate!) on all things synthesis.

It's all good. Things can't get as heated as the old "Andromeda is the best synth in the world vs. the Andromeda sucks" debates of a couple of years ago... wait, I think that debate is still raging somewhere. Hahaha.

I'll admit a bias towards the old synths because they've stood the test of time, they're classics, they are the SOUNDS that got me into synthesis. I'm not really into convenience and features... I like working with the old, limited and cranky beasts. Also, the thought of owning a Nord, an SE1x or Prophet 08 doesn't fill me with the joy and wonder of having a Jupiter 8. I identify with the old machines a lot, I guess because I spent most of my life lusting after them.

New is cool, but I like owning something that feels like a piece of history. Even if it's super uncool to do so. When I started collecting analogs it was before it became trendy, so I'm going to keep going for what I know regardless of what other people think.

I do understand why people want newer boards. Mine never leave my home or the recording studio. I don't play out or go on tour. I don't have band rehearsals. I don't really care if the board is MIDI compatible or not, and I do my real time tweaking with my hands. But I understand why someone would need those facilities.

I still can't grasp why Dave Smith put the pitch/mod wheels where he did though. That's kind of bad design if you ask me. But hey, the Evolver is a cool board so I guess I should quit complaining.

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Damn dude, give it a rest. Three posts in here already saying the same things you always say. We all got what you were saying the first time so I don't see why you feel the need to keep posting the same opinion over and over. We all know your personal biases so no need to spam the boards just because you think your opinion is more important than that of other peoples lol!

(and yes those are some of your own words coming back at you to illustrate just what a hypocritical twat you can be!)

Cheers fuuck

Meltdown caused by my words hitting too close to home yesterday LOL dude anyone as overly-opinionated as you are should've learned by now not to take it so seriously.

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Hey James, it's all good. All opinions are welcome here. You'll save yourself alot of grief if you just learn to ignore analogbass. He's really the only guy around here who actually believes that the opinions he states are facts and that no one else is entitled to having their own unique take on things.

The rest of us actually welcome a nice healthy discussion (and yes, even debate!) on all things synthesis.

LOL this guy spends half his life on this board obsessed with it & takes it all waaay too seriously with his synth ADD trying to hijack threads.

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by GrantB

That said, there is not enough of a difference that even a curmudgeonly old prog rocker shouldn't love the P08. P5 players will find that the 08 makes some very familiar sounds, and does them well.

Exactly, there are similarities as well as differences.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by analogbass

Meltdown caused by my words hitting too close to home yesterday LOL

Meltdown? It was quite fun throwing your words back in your face to highlight what a jackass you can be (come on, just admit that I called you out for being a hypocritical ****** and then we can move past this boring little dance you so enjoy!). The only 'nerve' it hit was my funny bone LOL. Your posts are never good for much but I will admit that your pointless drivel is always good for a laugh!

Now be a good little girl and go back to fiddling with your softsynths so the adults can continue with our conversation.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I'll admit a bias towards the old synths because they've stood the test of time, they're classics, they are the SOUNDS that got me into synthesis. I'm not really into convenience and features... I like working with the old, limited and cranky beasts. Also, the thought of owning a Nord, an SE1x or Prophet 08 doesn't fill me with the joy and wonder of having a Jupiter 8. I identify with the old machines a lot, I guess because I spent most of my life lusting after them.

New is cool, but I like owning something that feels like a piece of history. Even if it's super uncool to do so. When I started collecting analogs it was before it became trendy, so I'm going to keep going for what I know regardless of what other people think.

Can't argue with that!

I think it is great to see manufacturers who are still willing to jump into the analog game. I personally enjoy both newer and classic analog machines but certainly respect that each individual has their own source of inspiration.

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Meltdown? It was quite fun throwing your words back in your face to highlight what a jackass you can be (come on, just admit that I called you out for being a hypocritical ****** and then we can move past this boring little dance you so enjoy!). The only 'nerve' it hit was my funny bone LOL. Your posts are never good for much but I will admit that your pointless drivel is always good for a laugh!

Now be a good little girl and go back to fiddling with your softsynths so the adults can continue with our conversation.

Recent, unauthorized pic of our meltdown artist desperate for attention, appropriately named punk AKA synth nerd LOL stick to the thread topic genius.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by analogbass

Recent, unauthorized pic of our meltdown artist desperate for attention, appropriately named punk AKA synth nerd LOL stick to the thread topic genius.

LMAO! OK, now that was funny. Seriously, who didn't have that haircut in the 80's?!

Is there anything that screams 'desperate for attention' louder than a post written all in bold type and accompanied by a pic from Fatal Attraction?! Hilarious!

Granted, you are extra bitchy when you're on your period but I will admit that you are much more entertaining!

[alexp]

Wow for a guy with the name analog bass, why is he all pro digital? The new stuff blows compared to anything older. End of story.


BTW, I have a Matrix 6 and love it to death. They can be a little mental though in regards to stability and reliability.

[devious]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

That being said I'd wait until more is known about the 08's. Maybe you can pick one up slightly used at a discount. Or you can go for the "real deal" and get a Prophet 5. Mine (rev 3.2 with factory MIDI retrofit) has worked fabulously since I had it repaired (when I first bought it it was "dead") and they are excellent sounding polysynths. It even keeps great tuning.

I've played with both and I just picked up a Prophet 5 rev 3.2 w/ memory upgrade and factory midi for 1498 with free shipping. It arrived with issues, took a post to analogue heaven and 10 minutes opening it up and pushing every IC toward their socket, disconnecting and reconnecting the cables/ribbons, and putting it back together and flippin that power switch. w0wz0rs! It has a dead battery too, so presets are crap! But for an excellent condition 3.3[3] w/ midi for 1498!@# and a free hard case, it was hands down to get it over the p08. I do think the Prophet 08 has it's place in a modern studio, most definitely. In fact, I'd buy one right now if I had the monies for one.

Can't offer a comparison on the Oberheim. But with the Prophet 08, you're going to experience less issues, and have a warranty, is that a fair assessment?

-d