oberheim matrix-6 vs. dave smith prophet '08

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Now, I have to ask, what the hell is wrong with being a synth nerd?

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by devious

I've played with both and I just picked up a Prophet 5 rev 3.2 w/ memory upgrade and factory midi for 1498 with free shipping. It arrived with issues, took a post to analogue heaven and 10 minutes opening it up and pushing every IC toward their socket, disconnecting and reconnecting the cables/ribbons, and putting it back together and flippin that power switch. w0wz0rs! It has a dead battery too, so presets are crap! But for an excellent condition 3.3[3] w/ midi for 1498!@# and a free hard case, it was hands down to get it over the p08. I do think the Prophet 08 has it's place in a modern studio, most definitely. In fact, I'd buy one right now if I had the monies for one.

Can't offer a comparison on the Oberheim. But with the Prophet 08, you're going to experience less issues, and have a warranty, is that a fair assessment?

I don't know if it's fair to rate one synth higher than other just because one happened to be broken.

[devious]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I don't know if it's fair to rate one synth higher than other just because one happened to be broken.

So which synth was rated higher?

-d

[sleepwalker]

Granted, it's a ton of fun designing your own sounds, but pre-baked presets can help certain people concentrate on *playing* their synths instead of programming them.

I love my 2600, but I love my m1k almost as much and all it is is a preset box. If my music sounds horrid, it's not the m1k's fault.

Of course, my music sounding horrid is a completely different issue

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

Now, I have to ask, what the hell is wrong with being a synth nerd? Are you in the wrong forum or something because being a synth nerd is quite a good thing. It's what separates the professionals that actually program our synths from the talentless hacks playing with their softsynths, only using presets and then wondering why their music sounds horrid.

[sleepwalker]

I had the access programmer and I sold it. The programmer was clunky and the zippering made it useless for realtime control. For patch programming it was pretty cool. For the price I sold it, I bought a SuperBassStation and a cool old Korg digital vocoder/pitch shifter.

I just have no need to reinvent the wheel. If a synth has a sweet bass patch, I play it. If I need to adjust it, I adjust it. If it's not adjustable(M1k), I deal with it.

Anyway, obviously I think synth programming is wonderful. If I didn't, I wouldn't have a 2600 and the programmer for my MKS-80.

On the other hand, presets aren't evil and exist for a reason.

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

You know you can get patch programmers for those, right? You should get it and really take your Matrix to another level. You might be saying to yourself 'it's got 1000 presets, what else could it possibly do that's not already programmed into it?' Well, think of the DX-7: somewhere in the tens of thousands of patches are floating around on the internet. And yet, the DX-7 has yet to make every sound that it's capable of.

[alexp]

ANALOGBASS.....



OH NO YOU DINT!!!


You did not just say you get dated sounds from older gear? Seriously, I bet you still use all presets in your softsynths. I think its time you got an idea what synth programming is, was, and can be, before coming on to a forum and talking smack about something im extremely passionate about. When you get a clue, come back on, and express your views in a logical thought out way, with insight and some knowledge about what your talking about, and we will be more than happy to tear you a new one with respect, and dignity. Until then, STFU.


Edit Sleepwalker - What Korg is that? I am looking for a fun cheap vocoder, as I cant afford a VP-330 atm!!!

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by alexp

ANALOGBASS.....



OH NO YOU DINT!!!


You did not just say you get dated sounds from older gear? Seriously, I bet you still use all presets in your softsynths. I think its time you got an idea what synth programming is, was, and can be, before coming on to a forum and talking smack about something im extremely passionate about. When you get a clue, come back on, and express your views in a logical thought out way, with insight and some knowledge about what your talking about, and we will be more than happy to tear you a new one with respect, and dignity. Until then, STFU.

hahahaah i only have a couple of synths beyond the 80s. You're missing my point, which is that it's quite easy to sound dated when relying too heavily on older gear such as what i own-stuff you'd die to have lol.

The truth for those open-minded enough to accept it: better to mix new and old together even if a vintage fanatic. That will help avoid the old fart syndrome. ;-)

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by alexp

ANALOGBASS.....When you get a clue, come back on, and express your views in a logical thought out way, with insight and some knowledge about what your talking about, and we will be more than happy to tear you a new one with respect, and dignity. Until then, STFU.

[cub005@yahoo.co.]

can't see that's there's any great mystery here that some people prefer the sound of newer analogs for production work and others the vintage. There are just some genres of music that fit easier with the sound of some of the newer analogs, & others that don't; getting into a food fight over that is not going to change the eternal fact of different producers & different musicians having different needs

[carbon111]

There's no reason not to mix the old with the new.

The P'08 is the perfect companion to all my old analogs as it can nail many (not all) of the old Prophet sounds without breaking a sweat plus having more mod routings for "newer" sounds never hurts



I would say the Pro'08 is similar to the overall matrix timbre but also harks back to the older stuff as well:

http://carbon111.com/prophet08/demo1.mp3

http://carbon111.com/prophet08/demo2.mp3

http://carbon111.com/prophet08/demo3.mp3

http://carbon111.com/prophet08/demo4.mp3

http://carbon111.com/prophet08/bassy.mp3

http://carbon111.com/prophet08/churchy.mp3

http://carbon111.com/prophet08/paddy.mp3

http://carbon111.com/prophet08/stringy.mp3

[LX3]

Haven't heard the Prophet, but the Matrix 6... I had one for several years in the late 80s/early 90s. It was good for some things, really not good at others. Bass wasn't very solid, you really never got a satisfying low-end out of it... always a bit phasey-sounding. And the filter couldn't do big fat sounds - it was one of those "early digital" sounding filters with resonance that just didn't sound like analog. If anything came up big and fat on the Matrix, it was from stacking detuned oscillators rather than anything glorious about the filter.

But some pads, brass, sync and piano-ey sounds were good. You know, because it was analog-style voices it was always fairly easy to tweak sounds into the right ball-park, even if some were never really convincing.

Of course, at the time, for the money, it was great as long as you accepted its limitations - it was no OB-X or Expander, but it had good variety, more like a Yamaha DX than the Junos of the day. But I would say that you'll get more satisfaction out of most modern digital synths, including the Prophet I would guess.

What about the Alesis Ion?... I remember being knocked out by the demo sounds I heard - very convincing 80's fat analog if I recall.

[waveplant]

thanks for all the replies - strange comparison, i know - just seemed like the two were coming from a similar place in terms voice architecture, etc... and just thought that the p08 might have the potential to be sort of like an 'm6 with knobs' or at least something similar.

i love the sound of my m6, but i tend to program sounds as i work, and for obvious reasons, it isn't as immediate as i'd like.

in general, i'm not as concerned with analog vs. digital vs. vintage if the instrument has its own character, which is why i think stuff like the nord has done so well (i love my 2x). history lends itself to more character, thus the appeal of vintage, although the notion of owning something newer that i don't have to hunt down out-of-production parts for when it dies is appealing.

of course, we're all looking for the best of both worlds.

[Syki]

Originally Posted by cub005@yahoo.co.

can't see that's there's any great mystery here that some people prefer the sound of newer analogs for production work and others the vintage. There are just some genres of music that fit easier with the sound of some of the newer analogs, & others that don't; getting into a food fight over that is not going to change the eternal fact of different producers & different musicians having different needs

Invent your own genre, My Matrix 12 looks and sounds real nice in conjunction with my Virus TI. My Pro 5 REV 3.2 sounds great in conjunction with my Poly Evolver....my Jup 6 works and sounds great with my Omega 8......but none of them sound as good as my Voyager no wait......I've got smokin lead guitar sounds on my Triton classic (Please give me break).....I'm sure the Pro 08 is a great synth as well as the
M6........programming is key for trying to reach synth nirvana!!! but playing your ass off and interacting with other musicians is nivana.....now all of you get the hell off this thread and start progamming, writing, recording , and playing .......LOL
Oh yea have a couple of beers this weekend....cheers

[LX3]

You know, the instrument you play DOES have an impact on the music you make. Trying to make the kind of music you want to make on equipment that won't quite do it is really frustrating. It's amazing how, when you get the right instrument, it all falls into place. (and that goes equally for drums/cymbals and guitars and basses and...)

You know, as long as you are making music with the gear at some point!

However, I would say, waveplant, now that you've revealed that you already HAVE a matrix 6, why am I trying to describe it? You surely already know what it sounds like. So go and demo a P8 somewhere and see if you like it better, worse, or just different.

Then again, if I was changing a Matrix 6 for something, I'd want to change it for something significantly better, because after three or four years of owning the Oberheim, I found myself really disappointed by it.

From what I've heard of the P8 so far, it doesn't sound dramatically better than a Matrix 6 to me. (To my real surprise.)

The Ion does.

Or, I don't know, hunt down an Xpander (good luck with that!). Or if you want fast editing, great filters, and can put up with the limitations, try and find an old Jupiter 6.

There are lots of options out there. The analog polysynth thing is a well-trodden path with a lot of variations along the way.

[cub005@yahoo.co.]

Originally Posted by LX3

From what I've heard of the P8 so far, it doesn't sound dramatically better than a Matrix 6 to me. (To my real surprise.)

having tried it out, from my point of view I'd have to disagree almost 300% there both in terms of sound, range and functionality. I'd say the sound is poised halfway between the evolver and the p5, as other people have said. There's no limits to the subjectivity of what we all look for in synth sounds , though

[LX3]

Originally Posted by cub005@yahoo.co.

having tried it out, from my point of view I'd have to disagree almost 300% there both in terms of sound, range and functionality. I'd say the sound is poised halfway between the evolver and the p5, as others have said.

Well, that's a relief to hear. I was shocked by the MP3 samples on Dave Smith's site, they sound a bit scratchy and unsettled to me (i.e. a bit like a Matrix 6!)... far from the warm, smooth sound I'd associate with a P5, or most other good true analog synths.

I stand corrected, and I'm very happy to be wrong.

Only way to be sure is to get all these instruments in the same room of course.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by LX3

Well, that's a relief to hear. I was shocked by the MP3 samples on Dave Smith's site, they sound a bit scratchy and unsettled to me (i.e. a bit like a Matrix 6!)...

Hey LX,
Here's a link to some more online demos of the '08 if you are interested;

Index of /demos/Prophet_'08

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by carbon111

The P'08 is the perfect companion to all my old analogs as it can nail many (not all) of the old Prophet sounds without breaking a sweat plus having more mod routings for "newer" sounds never hurts

Carbon, I love the vibe of that 'Paddy' mp3. Hope you plan on developing that one further!

[nick x0x]

Originally Posted by alexp

Edit Sleepwalker - What Korg is that? I am looking for a fun cheap vocoder, as I cant afford a VP-330 atm!!!

im guessing it would be the dvp-1.

if u want a realitivley cheap vocoder, and you already have a good synth to use as a modulator, the ensoniq dp/2 or dp/2+ has a great vocoder algo....its a bit hard to wrap your head around at first, but once u get the right synth patch and the dp/2 dialed in, its great.

[DocT]

Here are some more P'08 single sounds:

Index of /files/p8/singlesounds

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by cub005@yahoo.co.

the pro8 wasn't intended as prophet five replacement , which is what Dave Smith said to begin with. As folks have said on other fora , the sound is set halfway between the cleaner new sound that producers prefer ( partic. at the top end of the keyboard for the clean highs), and the pro5. I've tried out at GC and thought it sounded great , + different from the evolver.

the proper use of the word "fora" in this post is worthy of mention. carry on.

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by analogbass

Recent, unauthorized pic of our meltdown artist desperate for attention, appropriately named punk AKA synth nerd LOL stick to the thread topic genius.

wow, Farrah Fawcett sure doesn't look as hot as she used to.

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by analogbass

hahahaah i only have a couple of synths beyond the 80s. You're missing my point, which is that it's quite easy to sound dated when relying too heavily on older gear such as what i own-stuff you'd die to have lol.

The truth for those open-minded enough to accept it: better to mix new and old together even if a vintage fanatic. That will help avoid the old fart syndrome. ;-)

fair enough.

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by analogbass

Many might alread know and agree with that, but the newer stuff does in fact offer some different qualities whether subjectively better or worse. Including the fact that the sounds are more consistent with what is in vogue now, more flexible, etc.

Given the difference of almost 3 decades in design and parts, it's fairer to compare against contemporaries, and more effective IMO to combine qualities of both new and old.

Too much reliance/fascination on only vintage gear can in fact result in a dated sound.

"dated sound" is there such a thing. En Vogue is like trying to chase a butterfly,, elusive. I consciously remain objective to all of the new gear and the VA's as well, I love some of the stuff that's emerging. But only because it might offer more textures, more sonic possibilities (not neccesarily better ones, but different ones). You never know what might spark your creativity. Modern is like a snowflake, and then it melts.

[dlmorley]

If a synth sounds dated, it's probably the operator who is dated...

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by Teknobeam

"dated sound" is there such a thing.

I don't know - but there are such things as dated threads (2007)

Modern? Compare synthesizers' paltry few decades to something like wind and string instruments. Those few years make no difference in the face of centuries.

[roman_f]

i own p08 and was thinking about m1000 as a second polyphonic

should i buy m1000 or do they sound pretty close?
is there anything on m1000 i can't do with p08?
i've heard that m1000 is very good for pads, but are those pads so unique so can't be done with p08?

[Teknobeam]

Originally Posted by analogbass

Many might alread know and agree with that, but the newer stuff does in fact offer some different qualities whether subjectively better or worse. Including the fact that the sounds are more consistent with what is in vogue now, more flexible, etc.

Given the difference of almost 3 decades in design and parts, it's fairer to compare against contemporaries, and more effective IMO to combine qualities of both new and old.

Too much reliance/fascination on only vintage gear can in fact result in a dated sound.

'En Vogue" has nothing to do with it. And En Vogue by definition is like a pair of blue suede platform boots. Here today gone tomorrow. I also find a lot of these new synths weezy. From the sound, to the build quality. Yet, I love some of them. But the ones that I love aren't the ones trying to be vintage analog's. Chasing En Vogue is like watching a guy win the lottery and then following him to the bank to watch him deposit his winnings. It already happened.

[F5D]

I have both an M1000 and a P'08 PE. They are both fantastic. Soundwise I prefer the M1000 but I don't have a controller or a software for controlling it, so I use it only as a preset machine. I actually just bought my second M1000 because I like the sound so much. I keep that one as a backup. The P'08 wins in terms of editing because it has knobs. It sounds different, not as fuzzy and dark as the M1000 but still very very good. The M1000 presets are surprisingly good and give an instant 80's but with proper tweaking, the P'08 can do similar sounds too. With the pot edition, the editing could not be much easier. Combine these with a good analog chorus and...

[roman_f]

thank you
so maybe some MKS- would be a better 2nd polysynth
any other options?

Originally Posted by F5D

I have both an M1000 and a P'08 PE. They are both fantastic. Soundwise I prefer the M1000 but I don't have a controller or a software for controlling it, so I use it only as a preset machine. I actually just bought my second M1000 because I like the sound so much. I keep that one as a backup. The P'08 wins in terms of editing because it has knobs. It sounds different, not as fuzzy and dark as the M1000 but still very very good. The M1000 presets are surprisingly good and give an instant 80's but with proper tweaking, the P'08 can do similar sounds too. With the pot edition, the editing could not be much easier. Combine these with a good analog chorus and...