slut on a 909, 808, or MD?

[slipstytch]

Many may view this as a stupid Q, but my argument is no Q is stupid...well you know what I mean.
I'm looking for the cream of the crop drum machine that i don't have to display my suck-ass talent of sampling or have to spend time mousing layered sounds together for, i see the fun for people of this passion but just don't share it.

Love the sound of 808 and 909 but from what I've read they sound different and is best to check them out first, however the only ones i ever have seen for the past few have been on ebay, most of the 808s have been in the UK. So is it really much of a gamble to purchase before hearing these machines?

The MD is fresh and newer but so far of what I have heard of them on the net, they don't have that breathing and loose quality that the 809s do, but am I wrong?

There internal clocks are s'posed to be rock solid with out the drift and the sequencer offers more. But is it the slight drift that sound lively about the 908s + voltage control that gives them the magic?

I can safely say that my ear prefers analog with out question, but I don't want to spend a bunch of money for a giant PITA. I know how to work a 707, so I know the 909 won't be much more to learn and I do enjoy the simplicity.
And yes the monomachine does look beautiful.
would love some input from users that know these machines well. (plz excuse the longness of this post that i'm making longer by...never mind) Edit: Also plz spare the software alternative advice.....not interest there.
+peaces+

[pitchybastard]

I'll make it as simple as possible, since i went through a similar dilemma:

If you are looking for a machine that approximates the sound of the aforementioned vintage machines, while opening new sonic possibilities, then i would recommend the Machinedrum.

If you are looking for a no compromise analog drum machine in the style of the classics, but with its own character, i would take a look at the Jomox line: either the Xbase 09 (discontinued) or Xbase 999.

I went for an Elektron Machinedrum but ended up selling it for a Jomox, simply because i could come up with similar sounds using other plug ins, namely ultrabeat, battery or reaktor.Also it wasn't as punchy as the jomox, out of the box.

I was really blown away by the simple, direct and raw sound of jomox products. I barely do anything as far as EQ and compression.Everything sounds great right out of the box.

Again, this is my personal opinion and, obviously, i would have kept both if i could have afforded to.


hope this helps!

Originally Posted by slipstytch

Many may view this as a stupid Q, but my argument is no Q is stupid...well you know what I mean.
I'm looking for the cream of the crop drum machine that i don't have to display my suck-ass talent of sampling or have to spend time mousing layered sounds together for, i see the fun for people of this passion but just don't share it.

Love the sound of 808 and 909 but from what I've read they sound different and is best to check them out first, however the only ones i ever have seen for the past few have been on ebay, most of the 808s have been in the UK. So is it really much of a gamble to purchase before hearing these machines?

The MD is fresh and newer but so far of what I have heard of them on the net, they don't have that breathing and loose quality that the 809s do, but am I wrong?

There internal clocks are s'posed to be rock solid with out the drift and the sequencer offers more. But is it the slight drift that sound lively about the 908s + voltage control that gives them the magic?

I can safely say that my ear prefers analog with out question, but I don't want to spend a bunch of money for a giant PITA. I know how to work a 707, so I know the 909 won't be much more to learn and I do enjoy the simplicity.
And yes the monomachine does look beautiful.
would love some input from users that know these machines well. (plz excuse the longness of this post that i'm making longer by...never mind) Edit: Also plz spare the software alternative advice.....not interest there.
+peaces+

[GYang]

Now is easy.
Pick Jomox and forget tales about 808 909 etc.
999 REALLY does it ALL

[Cojo]

Ok, here's my thoughts about it...

If you buy the 808/909 then you get instant 808/909 sounds without any hassle. If you buy the MD on the other hand you get a much wider palette of sounds but you also have to spend some time to get it to sound like an 808/909.

This is because the controls are more and goes beyond those of an 808/909.

I have an MD myself (and I would never sell it) but I would still like to have an 808. The 909 I can easily live without!

[kalle1978]

Just listen to records made with the different machines, and you'l get an idea about how they sound.

I have a tr808, and it's very versatile.

[nofi]

you know what an 808 sounds like. it's in countless tracks.

you know what a 909 sounds like, it's in countless tracks.

if one of those is the sound you want, no point pretending and getting something else, just go for the thing that does what you want.

And if you do buy one of these and change your mind later - you aren't going to have to worry aboyut selling for a loss, if you ever decide to sell.



Machinedrum is really nothing like an 808 or a 909. it does awesome stuff in it's own way, but will never make a convincing 808/909 sound. go listen to online demos, it has a quite particular sound that you should be able to work out if you like by listening to them.

Jomox gear covers a certain aspect of the 909 sound, and again, does a hell of a lot of cool stuff of its own, but for an 808 emulator? no way. Again, online demos should show you if this is something you want, too.

[Reptil]

Yeah love the Jomox sound and feel of the sequencer. not really the same as x0x, but as equal easily.

now whoever "designed" the controller structure on the Xbase09 should be taken out back and shot like a rabid dog.
Performance mode and Pattern mode, and switching between them, boy does that help? (not!!!)

sorry, I'm a bit coarse today.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by nofi

you know what an 808 sounds like. it's in countless tracks.

you know what a 909 sounds like, it's in countless tracks.

if one of those is the sound you want, no point pretending and getting something else, just go for the thing that does what you want.

And if you do buy one of these and change your mind later - you aren't going to have to worry aboyut selling for a loss, if you ever decide to sell.

Machinedrum is really nothing like an 808 or a 909. it does awesome stuff in it's own way, but will never make a convincing 808/909 sound. go listen to online demos, it has a quite particular sound that you should be able to work out if you like by listening to them.

Jomox gear covers a certain aspect of the 909 sound, and again, does a hell of a lot of cool stuff of its own, but for an 808 emulator? no way. Again, online demos should show you if this is something you want, too.

tune really low, pitch at 9 o'clock, EQ at eleven o'clock, Attack at 7 o'clock, harmonics nil. that should get you in the neighbourhood of an 808.
having lived through the nineties, I'm happy to give the old 808 sound a bit of a jangle. (it started to bug me at some point) btw, the xbase09 can be heard on a number of tracks too, if you listen careful enough. but screw it, they're just machines ppl. need to abuse any of them a bit more and come up with more interesting combinations. (it IS possible)

btw my xbox09 (toktok set) is worth more today than when I bought it.

[nofi]

I own and use both an xbase09(which I did the xrom mod to) and an 808, and I've never gotten a kick out of the xbase that sounds close to the character of the 808.

yeah it can do a long *boooooom* but to me, it's not an 808 boom. its a stretched out & filtered 909 kick, still.

and yes, damn the xbase09 is a bitch of a thing to drive.... would probably not be such an issue if I used it every day, because a lot of it is unintuiative, at least it's rote-learnable... but if you haven't laid hands on the thing properly for a few months, getting back up to speed can be very annoying.

[brutze]

I have owned all the roland stuff at one time or another...used to have 808,909, 2x303s, etc. etc. for trance records/ambient dub.
I was always a big fan of the CR78.

If you want to know the sounds there are endless samples of them on the net and in other machines too...
A quick google produced:
909...
Music Machines: TR-909/samples
808...
Music Machines: TR-808/samples

OR...
...KB6.de... Samples, Drumsamples for free download...

909 is "a bit more" techno
Digital samples mixed with analog kick/snare.
808 is a bit more House/ambient and all analog.

Samples never sound fully as good as the real thing for me..
I think often they are reproduced on substandard equipment on substandard listening systems. And often poorly multisampled.
The bottom end of the Kicks is often what sounds "fake" to me.

If you REALLY want the classic sound I promise that you will not regret using the real thing.

BUT...They have their issues. Sync for one. Price nowadays is another.
I suspect you can get results that 99.9% of people won't hear a difference by using samples.

There are some REALLY good sample sets of these/VSTs/newer machines about but I think the process of using the originals, with continuously varying signals/continuous parameters can produce richer/more genuine/more lively sounding work.(and possibly more dated sounding).

But my god...what a price.


Have Fun
All the Best from Berlin

B

[slipstytch]

I am continually blown away by the kindness on this board.....you guys are beautiful! I will be back for a better response as my much less interesting school work load today is out the roof.
I'm leaning twords the 808 for sure and I know I'll have to be patient to find one here in the states. I've seen way more 909s for sale than 808s and considered the 909 for this reason - might as well get the 808 if i'm gonna shell out the dough.

I've read that the 808's vary in sound quality from machine to machine and that it's best to check them out first. But I don't see much possibility in that as it does look like ebay is the way.

Do the differences in sounding machines pose much of a gamble or not?

Any key questions I should ask about the 808 before buying (common faults, etc.)?

How well has a well used 808 withstood the test of time up till now?


gotta get to schoolwork....

+musings+

[Tibbon]

I personally love the Machinedrum, partially because it doesn't sound like a 909 or 808. The parameter locks can really induce some insanity not possible with those, and the UW option just add that much more madness.

Then again, if you want a 909 get one. I don't want one.

I love my MD, but my neighbors hate it.

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by slipstytch

I"don't have to spend time mousing layered sounds"

"people of this passion but just don't share it"

"I don't want to spend a bunch of money for a giant PITA.

Sorry, but sometimes it just takes hard work to get there. Sampling any drum machine takes time and can be an art in itself. It can take sacrifice to own and try a real 808, 909 or MD due to price these days, but I recommend taking the plunge and trying them for yourself, it's totally worth it.

I almost sold my TR-909 until I got off my lazy a** and started processing it with nice pre's, compression, and eq until I got the sound I wanted. MD is nothing like a real 808 or 909. I even had the M-Base 09 and ended up selling it a week later, didn't like the analog static pop on my kicks. Then again, IMO, it's all in what kind of processing you do. If you are not set up to process one of these machines, I recommend not buying an 808 or 909 right away. MD is more raw, but a totally different sound than any Roland drum machine.

If you want instant sounds, go get a Korg Electribe, you will be very happy and they sound fantasic.

Peace,

[slipstytch]

Originally Posted by Popbott

If you are not set up to process one of these machines....

Peace,

Too true, and I am set up to process them but not sure if it would do the machine justice. I have EQs and comps in both Live and DP to send it through. Also a comp for guitar but it cuts lows, as well as an old MXR limiter pedal that's great for low end. I also have an old Peavey mixer that is not much to speak of.....I was hoping that a Mackie VLZ pro would be sufficient enough for pre's.
Argg! I gotta rethink all this...
thx for the response

[GYang]

Prices for clean 808 nowdays are higher than for Jomox 999.
Having in mind limited MIDI capabilities of retrofitted 808 and sound that no matter how good, still offers narrow choice of great sounds compared to many attractive sounds for electronic music in 999, it's insanely ridiculous to pay more for less in any respect. Compared to guitars and several classic outboards that have no real analogs in modern equipment, 808 is obsolete piece of cheapish technology that doesn't fit nicely to modern production standards.
I had it and sold it (what is rare case with my instruments or gears) without slightest feel of sorrow for it.
Repeating words that nothing sounds like originals is true, still sound of original 808 is no rocket science to be achieved and moreover can be improved/refined/enhanced in whatever direction.
Should we really freeze our creativity and try to sound like thousands around

[nofi]

Originally Posted by slipstytch

I'm leaning twords the 808 for sure and I know I'll have to be patient to find one here in the states. I've seen way more 909s for sale than 808s and considered the 909 for this reason - might as well get the 808 if i'm gonna shell out the dough.

808 is very different from a 909. if the 808 is what you want, the 909 is no substitute.

Originally Posted by slipstytch

I've read that the 808's vary in sound quality from machine to machine and that it's best to check them out first. But I don't see much possibility in that as it does look like ebay is the way.

Do the differences in sounding machines pose much of a gamble or not?

not really.... as long as the 808 is working, it'll sound like an 808...

now yes, from 808 to 808 there's sound differences, and you'll prefer one over the other if you are listening to 2 of them programmed the same, side by side, but I don't think it's an issue. they'll both sound great in their own way, and they'll both do amazing stuff in your music.

Originally Posted by slipstytch

Any key questions I should ask about the 808 before buying (common faults, etc.)?

switches go out (which sucks for realtime sequencing) - but they can be replaced. it's a hassle though.

metalwork can rust - this really sucks because screws can rust meaning it's very hard to get apart to work on if it needs help.

[nofi]

Originally Posted by GYang

I had it and sold it (what is rare case with my instruments or gears) without slightest feel of sorrow for it.
Repeating words that nothing sounds like originals is true, still sound of original 808 is no rocket science to be achieved and moreover can be improved/refined/enhanced in whatever direction.
Should we really freeze our creativity and try to sound like thousands around

it's certianly not an instrument for everyone. and if you don't really love the sound, there's certianly a lot of other gear that is better to spend $$ on.

I for one think the 808 is the best drum machine ever. I just love what it does, so for me my 808 is something I know I'll never want to get rid of as long as I am still doing music.... but that's me.

[slipstytch]

Originally Posted by GYang

Prices for clean 808 nowdays are higher than for Jomox 999.

Should we really freeze our creativity and try to sound like thousands around

GYang (and everyone) I appreciate your responses and see where you are comming from. The 999 looks very tweakable and looks like you can get plenty of unique sound out of it, but there is alot to be said in how a programmer puts beats together regardless of gear.....that's the beauty of electronic music there are plenty of aspects and forms of creativity to be had. All in all a less well produced piece of music that is good in a compositional sense, displays soul, freshness etc., far out shines music that lacks in those areas but was very well produced.
I am in love with the 808 sound, and love the simplicity of the roland xox sequencer for live use, this is coming from owning a tr-707, it sounds like shit but aside from the sound, I get much better results for all other aspects than painfully screwing with Ableton's Impulse, and trying to put some heart and soul into the swing with subtle movements via the most un musical tool for music - the mouse. Simplicity yeilds better results in any area of music and life! _Unless one has a mind for a high tolerance of stress and creativity that is not easily squashed by complicated matters.
I would be very open to a 999 and will never know exactly were you are coming from unless I get one, i know that we would work the machines differently and come out with different outcomes using the exact same tool. I don't believe that having a classic 808 would make me sound the same as everyone else for this very same reason.

Originally Posted by Popbott

Sorry, but sometimes it just takes hard work to get there. Sampling any drum machine takes time and can be an art in itself.



If you want instant sounds, go get a Korg Electribe, you will be very happy and they sound fantasic.

Peace,

Too true Popbott it all takes time. I may go for an electribe too, nice price and people are getting great results from it. Sitll got to look into int fuctionalality, outputs, etc.

Again, this board is the best

[slipstytch]

Originally Posted by nofi

I for one think the 808 is the best drum machine ever.

How much basic processing do you use with it to let it sing? I get the impression that this machine needs just a hint of compression and EQ. Right now my biggest question is how much of this that they need, they are analog after all.
I am not loaded, and to buy it would not kill me but i wouldn't have anything left to spend on more gear, so If if in the box processing is sufficient for an 808.....well is it?

[slipstytch]

Originally Posted by brutze

I have owned all the roland stuff at one time or another...used to have 808,909, 2x303s, etc. etc. for trance records/ambient dub.
I was always a big fan of the CR78.

All the Best from Berlin

B

Brutze you've got the wisdom that only the long time experienced could have. If you don't mind me asking, what has your experience led you to be using now for your drums?

+Peaces+

[GYang]

Originally Posted by slipstytch

All in all a less well produced piece of music that is good in a compositional sense, displays soul, freshness etc., far out shines music that lacks in those areas but was very well produced.

This is foremost precondition in great art of music making.
Gears should be far behind, but as gearslutzs we like to somehow overemphasis significance of gear choice.
I started with electronica quite long time ago when Roland MKS, Korg Poly 61, TR 808 and 909 were standard 'toys' in my home studio. It never seemed to me that any of them might become in demand after technology provided better analogue solutions, better MIDI, better opamps...

[slipstytch]

Originally Posted by GYang

I started with electronica quite long time ago when Roland MKS, Korg Poly 61, TR 808 and 909 were standard 'toys' in my home studio. It never seemed to me that any of them might become in demand after technology provided better analogue solutions, better MIDI, better opamps...

Well put and understood....much respect!

[cletus]

Jomox airbase 99 and a used "Classic" Machindedrum SPS-1. With the new MKII version of the md you should be able to find one at a more than reasonable price as people are offloading them to get the new revision with all it's limited new features. I have this setup along with a tr808 and even though I love the sound of it, it's possible to get much more modern and interesting drum sounds out of the MD/Jomox combo.
Right Here big daddy!!! Jomox Airbase 99 Analog Drum Machine - Excellent Shape! - (eBay item 300170487544 end time Nov-16-07 19:46:30 PST)

[slipstytch]

Cletus, that is exactly what I've been thinking. I've been in MD world for the past couple of days, listenin to tunes and checkin out vids. The thing is still making my jaw drop.
Of coarse I want the UW but that's mucho bucks mochacho! I wonder how easy it is to sample instruments on the fly while that thing plays. I'm gettin' an MD no doubt.

[Tibbon]

Wait a second... no one's given the actually slutty answer.

ALL!

They are all completely different, so all. That's like asking if you should get a U87, U47 or an SM58... Or asking if you should get a Grace Pre or a Neve. All.

[slipstytch]

LOL! If I could slut that hard......I wanna be a slut really I do

[huggie]

Originally Posted by slipstytch

I've read that the 808's vary in sound quality from machine to machine and that it's best to check them out first. But I don't see much possibility in that as it does look like ebay is the way.

Do the differences in sounding machines pose much of a gamble or not?

+musings+

In my experience with 808's I'd have to say they can vary a bit in sound quality... I recently had 2 TR808's side by side and one of them had a far superior BD... It had a longer decay and a fuller sound...

Hugo

[slipstytch]

Originally Posted by GYang

Now is easy.
Pick Jomox and forget tales about 808 909 etc.
999 REALLY does it ALL

GYang, I've gotta hand it to you! My searching for info outside of GS has lead me to other threads on this board saying the same thing about the 999 really doing it all .
You are THE guy with the 999 religion! Do you have a link so that I can hear your 999 in action?
Would love to know what all the is all about.

Peace

[nofi]

Originally Posted by slipstytch

I am not loaded, and to buy it would not kill me but i wouldn't have anything left to spend on more gear, so If if in the box processing is sufficient for an 808.....well is it?

I just record it through my desk (allen and heath system 8 - a large-ish 80s mixer, but nothing esoteric) . A bit of EQ on my mixing desk, maybe. depending on what's going on... that's about it. I never record anything except vocals with compression going into my DAW. I normally do 2-4 tracks of 808 - the main beat, then another track or 2 of misc percussion. Sometimes track the kick on it's own if I can be bothered, but not always. Mix in the box. Send back out to hardware reverbs/fx. I'm more than happy.

I think people get too carried away with compression and EQ on recording analogue synths. Especially lately - last year or 2 it seems to have become a massive trend. And not a good or even useful one for most people caught up in it either, if you ask me.

I can see why if you have everything else nailed, like composition and sound design and mixing, then you might sometimes want analogue outboard on a lot of modern synths, like a machinedrum for instance, and it'd make a nice difference sometimes.... but something like an 808 that only does the one limited thing, is already warm and fuzzy and living and raw.... why process it to death?

[slipstytch]

Thx nofi, for takin the time and reading closely. You've and others have addressed every 808 Q I could have before putting my hands on one.
The 808 is gonna have to be another day, I'm selling gear for the MD + Jomox kick thinga'ma'jig. Sounds like the best of both worlds to me and a kick ass performable setup.....just a matter of time before a new and exciting way of solo stage performance....can hardly wait gel w/ a fresh new setup!
peaces