Logic ES2 alternative

[josva]

Could you recommend the softsynth which can beat ES2? I love ES2 sounds
but couldn't find similar VSTi. I do not use Logic :( so what is your opinion?

[explorer]

Take a look at:

Rop Papen Predator and Albino
Rob Papen : Inspiration Soundware

NI Pro53, FM8 and Massive
NATIVE INSTRUMENTS : Products : Synth Line

Novation VStation
http://www.novationmusic.com/global/...nths/vstation/

ReFX Vanguard
reFX - VST/AU Instruments - Software Synthesizers and Effects

or for vintage stuff Gforce and Arturia
GForce Software
Arturia | Home

...or if you're on a mac Logic is only $500 for the full version including all the plugins etc - very good value IMHO.

[ignatius]

also check out Urs Heckman's Zebra

u-he.com - Zebra

[gsilbers]

vember audio' surge.

is very very good. you can load your own waves.


are you on mac or pc?


pc has way more stuff;

discovery,

z3ta ,

and more

[josva]

thank you wizards!
I'm on PC, so could you tell me more ?

[Reptil]

NI Absynth

you're right: ES2 is really really good
not if you're looking for analogue emulation
that is not the purpose of it

[josva]

Reptil thank you for agreement
ES2 has certain mojo.. of course my friends say there are numerous alternative for ES2, ES2 is nothing particular..just a virtual analog emulation softsynth.. but I felt different. Even very common 'saw' wave.. ES2 has some decent sound

[Orren]

Originally Posted by josva

Reptil thank you for agreement
ES2 has certain mojo.. of course my friends say there are numerous alternative for ES2, ES2 is nothing particular..just a virtual analog emulation softsynth.. but I felt different. Even very common 'saw' wave.. ES2 has some decent sound

I agree, the ES2 is one of my main "goto" synths...

I have to say, in my opinion, there is no real replacement for the ES2...I'd highly recommend rather than spending $200-$300 on a new software instrument, spending $200 on Logic Express 8. If you're a PC user, saving up and spending $500 on a Mac Mini get getting Logic Express 8 pre-installed. You can even use Windows XP with it natively now, as Boot Camp is part of Leopard.

Orren

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by Orren

I agree, the ES2 is one of my main "goto" synths...

I have to say, in my opinion, there is no real replacement for the ES2...I'd highly recommend rather than spending $200-$300 on a new software instrument, spending $200 on Logic Express 8. If you're a PC user, saving up and spending $500 on a Mac Mini get getting Logic Express 8 pre-installed. You can even use Windows XP with it natively now, as Boot Camp is part of Leopard.

Orren

The ES2 hasn't been updated in what five years? I would spend $150 on Zebra2, or maybe Blue, FM8, Absynth 4, Albino, etc. I am not sure what Logic Express gets you, if you already have Logic Studio....A mac mini won't really cut it for anything serious with Logic - I get overload messages even with a new quad core tower and a ton of ram - and I don't think you can run Windows at the same time as Logic, because you would have to boot into Windows, and thus not have the Mac OS running to run Logic.

I hope you don't write books on the subject for a living.

[monobeat]

ZEBRA. it is mind blowing.
also like the arturia synths although they are a different animal.

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by monobeat

ZEBRA. it is mind blowing.
also like the arturia synths although they are a different animal.

Yeah Zebra is great - but its in the area of new synth concepts. Blue comes with a ton of presets and they are good sounding too but Zebra is the overall best sounding one. The Arturia stuff is all retro - good retro but retro. Imposcar is really good too, and Chameleon 5000 is unqiue. Strangely I prefer FM7 to FM8, and Abysnth 3 to 4 because I think NI has made them clumsy to use and not sound as good. There is also Massive from NI.

[grantlandau]

I used the ES2 for years and I'll have to say it's one of the most sterile sounding synthesizers ever. Maybe re-amp it...but blahhh... its a snooze. And trust me, I turned it inside and out/shook out its pockets/stole its wallet and then returned it....figuratively

It wasn't so bad when I was listening to only VST's, but it was nothing compared to Absynth, Albino, Massive. Once I started buying synths, I couldn't believe how awful that synth was. Don't get me wrong, its routing capabilities are great. But the thing is like a eunuch - gigantic, annoying squeaky voice and no balls!

[YUGA]

I love ES2 for some particular things such as synth brass, bells etc. But I usually prefer Imposcar and Absynth 4 over it especially when I create a sound from scratch.

Check out a freebie synth called Synth1 if you're on PC. Not very stable but sounds pretty darn good. Also Sytrus, a great sounding FM synth. I wanna use them on Mac...

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by grantlandau

I used the ES2 for years and I'll have to say it's one of the most sterile sounding synthesizers ever. Maybe re-amp it...but blahhh... its a snooze. And trust me, I turned it inside and out/shook out its pockets/stole its wallet and then returned it....figuratively

It wasn't so bad when I was listening to only VST's, but it was nothing compared to Absynth, Albino, Massive. Once I started buying synths, I couldn't believe how awful that synth was. Don't get me wrong, its routing capabilities are great. But the thing is like a eunuch - gigantic, annoying squeaky voice and no balls!

Yeah, I agree. Thats a funny way to put it. The ES2 has one unique feature which is that envelope step-sequencer-like thing, and it may have a side-chain input like the ES1 (I can't recall now). But there is nothing unique about its sound. It sounds decent sometimes but pretty bland other times. I just got a lot more out of FM7.

[Orren]

Originally Posted by gregohb

The ES2 hasn't been updated in what five years?

It has been updated in Logic 8.
• Full surround support
• Four new vector destinations for random mode
• New Macro view

I hope you don't write books on the subject for a living.

I make my living in lots of ways. But the books I've written certainly don't pay the mortgage—that is a labor of love.

On the other hand, I hope that you do make a living by your constant and insipid attacks on Logic, because unless this silliness is paying your rent, the only other explanation is that you have some sort of unhealthy emotional reaction to software that doesn't do what you want it to.

And why you'd bother stocking me from post to post, forum to forum on Gearslutz, making snide personal insults because I've written books on Logic, is completely beyond me.

Orren

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by Orren

It has been updated in Logic 8.
• Full surround support
• Four new vector destinations for random mode
• New Macro view

Again, the actual sound producing mechanism is unchanged for maybe 8 years during a time when all kinds of other things have been developed or updated. Hardly a "go to" synth in my opinion.

On the other hand, I hope that you do make a living by your constant and insipid attacks on Logic, because unless this silliness is paying your rent, the only other explanation is that you have some sort of unhealthy emotional reaction to software that doesn't do what you want it to.

I am sorry, I guess I didn't understand that no one is allowed to give an honest appraisal of this common software. Its silly to set the record straight on blatant fallacies. I do thank "Dr Orren" is giving roadside psych diagnoses. It amazing that you can take one or two comments and immediately ascertain the extent of someone's unhealthy emotional condition. Amazing! I guess you failed to notice that I also posted a few positive things about the ES2 which were not mentioned before. Oh dear, how does that fit into your diagnosis, Doctor?

And why you'd bother stocking me from post to post, forum to forum on Gearslutz, making snide personal insults because I've written books on Logic, is completely beyond me.

Uh huh. That was actually a joke, but I see what we are dealing with here. I have no idea what other forums you are on, but I hope you there is a mental health forum which discusses the concept of of paranoia. I have been using Logic for about 13 years now, and am a former beta tester, I think I might have a few opinions about Logic and want to express them, just as you evidently do in the course of healthy open discussions. The truth of the matter seems to be that you are bent out of shape because you don't like someone pointing out errors in your comment, which seemed to be misleading and lacking in balance. Why don't you relax a bit and just discuss the topic at hand rather than making personal attacks of your own. Your personal attacks toward me are far in excess of a simple question I asked.

[Orren]

Originally Posted by gregohb

I hope...there is a mental health forum which discusses the concept of of paranoia

"Just because you're paranoid...doesn't mean they're not after you..."

Orren

[grantlandau]

Who's really using surround sound on an es2? come on .. .


here we go, someone will step up and say, well actually...I...blah blah...made this really enchanting pad...blah blah...surround sound installation...blah blah...


my es2 flaming is done. sorry es2 lovers, I used to be on your team many moons ago.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by grantlandau

Who's really using surround sound on an es2? come on .. .


here we go, someone will step up and say, well actually...I...blah blah...made this really enchanting pad...blah blah...surround sound installation...blah blah...


my es2 flaming is done. sorry es2 lovers, I used to be on your team many moons ago.

I like it for plastic drumsounds etc., different from the analogue stuff or "realistic" sounds.
nice and lean.
Imposcar's great, but very different. (obviously )

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by gregohb

... I get overload messages even with a new quad core tower and a ton of ram - ...

wauw, what ARE you running? 40 space designers or something like that?

[YUGA]

Originally Posted by Reptil

wauw, what ARE you running? 40 space designers or something like that?

Maybe he's using Logic 8. After upgrading to 8, I also get the core audio overload messages much more frequently even when playing back a project that uses only 10-20% of the CPU.

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by gregohb

Again, the actual sound producing mechanism is unchanged for maybe 8 years during a time when all kinds of other things have been developed or updated. Hardly a "go to" synth in my opinion.

WTF? An ARP 2600 or Minimoog Model D hasn't changed in decades, and they are still more than valid synths (ok, we do have the Voyager out, but that's not a replacement for the Model D... just another product). Why does for something to be a go-to synth must it be updated?

The product works. The sound works. They didn't want to change "what it sounds like" because well... it sounds like people want it to.

Bob Moog once said, "People don't buy instruments for what they can't do, they buy them for what they can do". I think he knew more about synths than pretty much anyone, alive or dead. Certainly more than you.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

WTF? An ARP 2600 or Minimoog Model D hasn't changed in decades, and they are still more than valid synths (ok, we do have the Voyager out, but that's not a replacement for the Model D... just another product). Why does for something to be a go-to synth must it be updated?

How dare you even utter the words 'Arp 2600' or 'Minimoog' in a thread on the ES2?!

Seriously though, it's not unreasonable to expect improvements to be made upon software synthesizers. Let's face it, there is plenty or room for improvement!

[Sal Handsome]

Originally Posted by josva

Could you recommend the softsynth which can beat ES2? I love ES2 sounds
but couldn't find similar VSTi. I do not use Logic :( so what is your opinion?

Many synths "beat" the ES 2 purely on specs, if that is the criteria you use to select a synth.

What kind of sounds are you looking for?

Sal

[Sal Handsome]

Originally Posted by gregohb

The ES2 hasn't been updated in what five years?

Maybe that just shows how far ahead of its time it was. I agree and wish that it would get updated with all of the modern niceties of other synths, but soundwise it is still incredible.

As far as it sounding sterile, I guess we all have different tastes; I own most of today's top synths and I would not want to be without the ES 2.

Cheers,

Sal

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by Sal Handsome

Maybe that just shows how far ahead of its time it was. I agree and wish that it would get updated with all of the modern niceties of other synths, but soundwise it is still incredible.

As far as it sounding sterile, I guess we all have different tastes; I own most of today's top synths and I would not want to be without the ES 2.

Have you heard and tried Zebra 2? I think that completely kills the ES2 in the same genre. Blue and Albino are pretty good too and comparable too, as is Massive and FM8. The moogs, imposcars, etc are great emulations but not direct competitors for the ES2.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by YUGA

Maybe he's using Logic 8. After upgrading to 8, I also get the core audio overload messages much more frequently even when playing back a project that uses only 10-20% of the CPU.

I'm aware I'll "need" a big 8 core with the logic 8 update, if only for peace of mind.

Will look at Zebra2 too, but it's not high on my priority list. Got the subject covered with the ES2. I cannot understand how ppl. can say they've tried every setting on the ES2. LOL IMHO impossible, and it's wholly related to the context, eg the song/composition in which it is used. Sometimes you might want less fat, not more.

[Sal Handsome]

Originally Posted by gregohb

Have you heard and tried Zebra 2? I think that completely kills the ES2 in the same genre. Blue and Albino are pretty good too and comparable too, as is Massive and FM8. The moogs, imposcars, etc are great emulations but not direct competitors for the ES2.

I own Zebra 2 along with the other synths you mentioned. I don't believe any of them kills any other, they all have their special sounds.

Cheers,

Sal

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by Reptil

I'm aware I'll "need" a big 8 core with the logic 8 update, if only for peace of mind.

I upgraded to a quad 2.6 and Logic 8, and it doesn't seem to run much faster than my previous G5 2x1.8. I also get crashes in various programs about the same rate. Its strange to me how I have a very pristine well maintained music system which is not always that stable, and yet I have an imac G5 for email and web and simple stuff, which runs months at a time without a reboot.

Regarind ES2 and every patch possible...there are so many patches you can't really go through them all - so you need to find usuable things fast. ES2 would have been a prime thing to update in over the past 3/4 of a decade - while many new virtual instruments have come out, or been updated.

PS - I bet you are not happy about the fact that the Japanese fleet left yesterday to start hunting Humpback Whales again for the first time in 40 years. I saw a baby humpback whale at a sea park one time, and it was amazing.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by gregohb

I upgraded to a quad 2.6 and Logic 8, and it doesn't seem to run much faster than my previous G5 2x1.8. I also get crashes in various programs about the same rate. Its strange to me how I have a very pristine well maintained music system which is not always that stable, and yet I have an imac G5 for email and web and simple stuff, which runs months at a time without a reboot.

that is strange.

Originally Posted by gregohb

Regarind ES2 and every patch possible...there are so many patches you can't really go through them all - so you need to find usuable things fast. ES2 would have been a prime thing to update in over the past 3/4 of a decade - while many new virtual instruments have come out, or been updated.

probably

Originally Posted by gregohb

PS - I bet you are not happy about the fact that the Japanese fleet left yesterday to start hunting Humpback Whales again for the first time in 40 years. I saw a baby humpback whale at a sea park one time, and it was amazing.

it's ridiculous really, since the Japanese public doesn't want to eat whale meat anymore. a deliberate attempt by a small group of people, to rid the oceans of valuable species. see as another example the eradication of tuna in the Mediterranean sea (nursery for this and other species) there was a discussion in the gearfree zone about this. It's very strange, very irrepairable and it's happening now. in a decade or so, it'll be too late.