Jupiter 6 w/ Europa Mod vs. Super Jupiter MKS80 w/ MPG80 Programmer

[sunnyb]

haha wow this made my day

[Xero]

hahaha. wow this thread is old. But yeah, mks-80rev4 = one of the ultimate bass synths...jupiter 6 is cool, but i am good w/my mks-80 + jupiter 8 for now!

[peglegjoe857]

HAHAHAHAH.

Actually I don't do gearslutz anymore... waste of time! I sometimes lurk a bit.

After my JP-6 rant, the JP-6 went up in price and stayed there until recently.

and BTW I still love it and still have disdain for the JX-8p. I have owned two 8ps and hated both.

On a brighter note, I just picked up a JX-3p for 130(which I love!), and an MKS-30.. which does not work yet. 50 bucks broken is pretty damn good, in my book!

Also scored a Clavinet for 400 bucks at the beginning of the year. GEAR GEAR GEAR

I am trying to stop though.

oh, and just so you don't think my gear is going to poor use.. (and hopefully the music justifies my statement!) here are some of my new jams:

XRY [krahy](BAY AREA NEEDS TO GET BOOKE!HELP) on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

we are going on tour in JULY

We used my MPC-60, Emax, Tascam MSR-16, Jupiter 6, Clavinet, Wurlitzer, Tama Techstar, and some rack effects
as well as my collaborators SH-101, simmons sds 200, and his drum and bass guitar gear.
absolutely no computers in the studio. FUN!

Originally Posted by CfNorENa

Cue ferocious response by peglegjoe...

[Don Solaris]

Originally Posted by Don Solaris

(Inspired by insane prices that lately went on all Jupiter models on eBay: JP-8 for 2.7k, JP-6 for 1.5k, JP-4 for 1k etc... where will this end?)

WTF!

[Robobaby]

Well JP-6 is still hovering around 1.5k ish. Small consolation I guess. JP-8? LOL.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Robobaby

Well JP-6 is still hovering around 1.5k ish. Small consolation I guess. JP-8? LOL.

if you're lucky anyway. they can go up to like $2200 now...and i've seen jp4's going for 1.5kish these days...but yeah the jp8 price bump is insane

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Xero

yeah the jp8 price bump is insane

justified by only one small point
IT's SOUND

[Xero]

Originally Posted by GYang

justified by only one small point
IT's SOUND

agreed....and also the fact that it's THE roland synth. I mean, roland has a huge following to begin with and the jupiter 8 is arguably the king of all roland synths...

[sickpea]

This is fairly off-topic, but maybe someone here can shed some light. Every time I read about this:

Although they share the same filter chip IR3109, its design is again different, with JP-8 offering the 12 dB mode - and that is from where majority of famous Jupiter 8 sounds come from.

I wonder whether there's a simple mod that could be done to the JP-6 to let it use the IR3109 in 12db/octave LP mode. When the filter section is in bandpass mode, I believe that it's using two 12db filters in tandem, one as a lowpass and one as a highpass, with a narrow (and unfortunately nonadjustable) spread. I don't know much about circuits, but wouldn't disabling the high pass side with a switch be fairly easy?

roland_filter_versions

Here are schematics and a note that says it's not possible to use just a 12db/oct filter on JP6...but is that something that could be overcome with some soldering and another switch or something you need a whole new chip/firmware for? Or just impossible, period...anyone have a clue?

I apologize in advance for my ignorance about the guts of these great machines...and I guess I should learn how to read a circuit diagram...

[giorgio]

i was just thinking the same thing while going through this thread. maybe some kind of analog modification. I would even consider just switching my JP-6 to 12db if that was possible, for the low-pass filter. jupiter 8 uses the same filter chip if I'm not mistaken, and has a 12db mode available. so maybe this mod is possible. I love the jupiter 6 but I usually end up keeping the resonance control at zero cause I guess I'm not super into the 24db sound with resonance. hmmm...

[clusterchord]

nope. you wont get the same sound anyway.


JP6 (or MKS80 rev4) whilst using the 24dB/Oct sounds DIFFERENT from JP8 when using 24dB/Oct. only thing in common is expo converter element i.e. the IR3109. but not the filter circuit itself. its apparent in schematics too, but you don't really need to look... just listen. 6 is always colder, grabby and cutting, whereas 8 is warm, sliky and round.

its easy to conclude, that even if you somehow modded the JP6 to do 12dB/Oct lowpass, it would still have its own character, not the sound of 12dB/OCt setting on JP8.


i remember long time ago when i had MKS80 rev4, and just got JP8, and heard this difference and mailed Kevin Lightner to explain why.. as i of course expected similarity due to 3109. "educated" guessing can often lead you in the wrong.


all this talk reminded me.... i do miss my old MKS80 rev4.. more n more lately.. its been five yrs since i sold it.. 8voice CEM based analog with velocity... many beautiful things are possible that you cannot do with JP8. perfect companions i'd say..

slow PWM being one of my favorite apps.. id buy it again, if only to have this sound again..

http://www.babic.com/SYN/MKS80-V4/cl...AmbientPWM.mp3

[giorgio]

cool, good to know. I wouldn't be trying to make my JP6 into a JP8 of course, but in general I always have liked 12db LPFs better than 24db ones....

[leitner6]

The Sh-101 and the JP-8 use the same circuit. the Sh-101 is just missing the 12 db/oct tap.

[hmmm]

i regularly wish my 101 was polyphonic...

[wild modulation]

the super jupiter wins out imo

because of the velocity sens

when i had a room full of synths

i got the analog polys down to

chroma/with midi, mks80, xpander

i had to have vel control,

synths without it i think dont have enough
"bounce"
for want of a better word

[sickpea]

Thanks for the response, clusterchord. But yeah, even if it's not the same sound as the JP-8, it'd be cool to have another, "softer," filter edge in the palette. Ah well.

[Liquid360]

I have a JP-6 and an MKS-80 (with the programmer, don't buy one without it). I got the JP-6 back when they were going for peanuts and REALLY liked it in unison mode. I liked it so much I bought the MKS several years later, thinking I would sell the JP-6, but they sound too different, even though they use many of the same components.

The filter in the JP-6 has more of a wet "phasey", "spacey" filter sound, and the oscillators are somehow 'fuzzier" (and thinner) than the MKS. No velocity forces you to learn to play the joystick, and that approach affects what kind of sounds you make on it. The envelopes can have a snap similar to an Access Virus with the "punch" parameter cranked up. Like many have said here, the texture difficult to describe.

The MKS-80 has more bottom, and the oscillators are cleaner, more up front and less "fuzzy". Even when you use the fixed high pass filter to thin it out, it still sounds different than the JP-6. It sounds more like what you would expect a Jupiter 8 to sound like (although I never owned the 8, just heard it on recordings). Again the addition of velocity affects the type of sounds I tend to make on it. Layering makes a big difference too, you can achieve wide stereo effects on the MKS. (But nothing you couldn't do by double-tracking a JP-6.)

Because neither of these synths have much of a mod matrix, you learn to perform the slider panel in real time, which is a lot of fun. I've thought about which is best for a long time, and it just depends on your application and what other analog synths you own. A Jupiter 6 and an Xpander make a great combo, but if I had neither, the MKS-80 would be my choice. (Well, actually the Xpander would be, but we're talking about Roland synths here.)

[Liquid360]

And as far as vintage Roland analog prices go these days.. I think it's completely ridiculous. Utter nonsense created by nostalgic hype, and I realized I just contributed to it. I feel ashamed. LOL...tutt

[raffor]

Originally Posted by Liquid360

The filter in the JP-6 has more of a wet "phasey", "spacey" filter sound, and the oscillators are somehow 'fuzzier" (and thinner) than the MKS.

There is a different between a 24 pole filter and two 12 poles soundwise.

Originally Posted by Liquid360

A Jupiter 6 and an Xpander make a great combo, but if I had neither, the MKS-80 would be my choice. (Well, actually the Xpander would be, but we're talking about Roland synths here.)

[raffor]

Originally Posted by wild modulation

the super jupiter wins out imo

because of the velocity sens

when i had a room full of synths

i got the analog polys down to

chroma/with midi, mks80, xpander

i had to have vel control,

synths without it i think dont have enough
"bounce"
for want of a better word

I would disagree. I think a real multi-mode filter opens up a total different world than velocity ever can do (even I like velocity very much on my synths).

[wild modulation]

Originally Posted by raffor

I would disagree. I think a real multi-mode filter opens up a total different world than velocity ever can do (even I like velocity very much on my synths).

The chroma and xpander have seriously good multi mode filters
so the lack of it on the on the mks didnt matter to much.
But the lack of vel on any synth i had really began to bug me.

Certainly a mks80 with the jp-6 multimode filter
and simultaneous waveform vcos
Would have taken it even further up the power synth scale.

Where's the europa mks 80 upgrade?
add in a 12db mode, full multitimbral, bass boost amount
and oooh aaah!

[depulse]

Originally Posted by wild modulation

Where's the europa mks 80 upgrade?
add in a 12db mode, full multitimbral, bass boost amount

You forgot the arpeggiator and more memory locations

[sleestack]

can you sequence the Jup 6 in unison mod via CV GATE?

[nutjob]

Originally Posted by sleestack

can you sequence the Jup 6 in unison mod via CV GATE?

Not without modification.

[Teknobeam]

I have played a Jupiter 6 a few times. hated the cheesy wobbly plastic buttons for selecting patches, etc. I always found it thin and kind of brash. OK, that's the negative stuff out of the way. it's a serious sound design tool in terms of it's accessibility to modifying things. Someone mentioned late 80's sound..well, it does that well. It can't really go fuzzy like a Juno 60 or a DW8000, and it's not as punchy as an MKS 80, or as pristine as my Chroma Polaris's. I personally wouldn't select it. How does it look? I really don't care. I also don't believe racing stripes make a car go any faster. I think Roland got it right with analog on the MKS 80. I have the Rev 5 and the MPG80. I will never sell it. Hey, consider this. it doesn't know it was born in the 80's It's not stuck there either. Take it to other places. It has some real depth if you invest the energy. Sonically, it's inherent character is very strong.