Monitor speakers for dance music (house/techno)

[mustgroove]

There's a lot of threads out there in internet land (this forum included) that talk about studio monitors, and what's good in what price bracket... Invariably though, the OP is a rock producer, and all the talk about mix translation is based on rock music...

Whilst not being completely different, dance music does tend to have a different set of characteristics (more bass-heavy, less need for dynamics in mixing) which don't generally get a mention in such threads... Furthermore, there are a lot of speakers which rock heads seem not to rate that highly, which a lot of dance producers seem to use - the most obvious example to me being the KRK stuff...

So I'm in the market for speakers in the $1000-$1500 USD bracket, and I know what's out there and what people recommend, but I have no what their performance is like in a dance music context...

The shortlist so far is:
ADAM A7
Dynaudio BM5A
KRK V8
Genelec 8030A

Basically, what's good for dance music? I'm strongly leaning towards the A7s, people seem to be losing it over how good these speakers are for the prices, but once again, I'm not sure how well that hype translates to the needs of dance music producers...

If anyone has any advice or thoughts, or any other suggestions for what speakers would work, please post up! :D

[fr0st]

I just went through the same thing your going through. The adams are great but i ended up going with the genelec 8040's they are quite a bit more but i feel the bass extension is great, until i can get a sub that is. The adams really did not go very low, 80hz or so and i felt it became a bit difficult to mix something that would sound good on a club system. Now if you purchase the sub8 with the adam a7's they will work quite well. I plan to get the genelec sub when i can afford it, as bass is really important to club/electronic music.

[mustgroove]

I'm surprised that the ADAMs didn't go that low, considering they're rated to 43Hz according to their website...

The other alternative is to save my pennies and go for a pair of Focal Solo6s, but that might be overkill, and in any event, I have no idea how they are for dance music either...

[fr0st]

The adams were great, personally i just wouldn't want to mix really bassy music on them

[fr0st]

Charlie May of spooky fame uses Genelec's, and if they are good enough for him and Sasha they are good enough for me.

[Caban]

If you go on what make most successful producers in the genre use I would guess it's dynaudio.
Their bass response is not the most natural and uncoloured IMO, but works a treat for dance music.
Very tight and punchy.

When it comes to nearfields I would not get to obsessed with how deep the bass goes. Unless you have a well designed and treated room anything below 50-60Hz will be very problematic, and even if your monitors reproduce those frequencies the information that gives you will not be very useful.

By all means get a sub to turn on if it helps you get in to the mood, but don't expect to get accurate monitoring in the sub spectrum without having a well treated room.
And in that case you would ideally have a pair of nearfields where you do most of you mixing on as well as a proper pair of fullrange monitors where you can check the full spectrum occasionally.

[yareck]

For dance bigger = better. The same with control room.

[analogbass]

I've compared Adams, Genelecs, Dynaudios and Tannoys all in the same room. I think the Genelecs, Dynaudios and Tannoys are all excellent, better than the Adams IMO. The Gennies have a different sound characteristic than the Dynaudios and Tannoys, which are more similar. Which is better is entirely up to taste-either you have to hear and compare them yourself or just know the basic difference in character then decide which is preferred.

The Gennies are similar to older JBLs-a nice balance across the frequency spectrum that is strong on highs and low end, so you'll notice the bass and drum transients are more pronounced, while the mids balance nicely. The most punchy, tight sound. The glassy sound and noticeable highs could create ear fatigue a little faster than the others. The Dynaudios and Tannoys are more beautifully musical and transparent, with mids that are a little more prominent than the Gennies, with low and high end quite good though not as prominent or controlled as with Gennies. On the other hand, i think you'll have less ear fatigue with Dynaudios and Tannoys, that have a more lush less raw and defined sound. Basically you choose which characterisic of these you prefer.

They are ALL excellent for any type of music, just different in character.

As far as monitor size, larger is only needed for playback not mixing, plus you can always get a sub.

Adam & KRK are good but not on the same level IMO. The KRK's are tight, defined and concise like Genelecs but less good, bright with high potential for ear fatigue IMO. The Adams didn't strike me as special in any way.

[fr0st]

If i was mixing rock or pop, id go with adams without a second thought...

[diogodasilva]

What about the Events ASP8 ...

It seems people underrate it... I just bought these speakers.. I am now waiting for them to arrive. As soon as they do I´ll post my considerations about them.

in the mean time.. what u guys think about ´em?

[fr0st]

Im going from event tr8s soo i wanted to get away from Event and try something different, They have the same characteristics of the mackies, but are a bit truer and I feel have better low end. Now these i was only able to demo at guitar center so we all know how that goes.

[lblstudio]

I would look at the Mackie HR824s. They have pretty good low frequency response. I have a set and like them.

[alexstringer]

Originally Posted by lblstudio

I would look at the Mackie HR824s. They have pretty good low frequency response. I have a set and like them.

+1 thumbsup

[6oh64ever]

A lot of cats in Minneapolis have some form of Genelecs - before that it was Alesis monitor 1s - I run NS10s and monitor the bass through headphones (home studio in the residential area).

The Genelecs are pretty good - I'm thinking about a pair for the daylight hours.

[bluemoon]

I used V8s (series II) for a couple of years and while they're good speakers, they can't compare with the clarity of my new genelecs.

i got a pair of 8020s to use as b-speakers in my laptop but i liked them so much that I sold the V8s and got the 7050B sub.

I can say I have a much better sound now. I think the 8030s + sub should make an even better combo.

I'm still getting used to them but I noticed a lot of flaws in my previous mixes with them.

I don't know the dynaudios or the adams though. But I'd prefer investing the 8030s now and plan to get the sub later on. These things sound great.

[Stevil]

i'm an electronic/keyboard guy who has gotten into adding live instrumentation to my sound.
a flat speaker w/ good frequency response is going to play any style balanced & accurately, from raw harsh metal to slick bouncy tekno.

+1 Tannoy

also a pair of club sized speakers for reference once you get the levels balanced on some good nearfields. i like the JBL Eon's.

[F5D]

I know many trance/dance producers who use mackie hr824's and like them alot. I use passive Dynaudio BM15's and they are imo very good for trance/dance/techno production. I guess a monitor which doesn't color the sound doesn't even exist. Anyway, these dynaudios are very neutral and they kick the bass very hard too. You can play them very (sick) loud and the sound just remains clean. I have tuned my bm15's bass ports from the original 54Hz down to 43Hz (bm15A tuning frequency) which I like better but they produce lots of bass anyway, depending of the room of course. Just remember to use them in vertical position. They sound totally weird if used in horizontal position (which only looks cool).

[theoryinmotion]

Originally Posted by Stevil

a flat speaker w/ good frequency response is going to play any style balanced & accurately, from raw harsh metal to slick bouncy tekno.
.

The most helpful and insightfull reply in this thread!

[Caban]

Of course you get good results using any decent monitor that you know well regardless of what type of music you work with.
But in my experience it's not always that all good monitors is optimal for all types of music.

If you work with acoustic music for example I find it quite easy to decide a good monitor.
Put on a great live recording and close your eyes and imagine that your in the room listening to the performance and you will hear which monitor sounds most neutral and uncoloured by finding the one that sounds closest to actually being in live.

For example dynaudio does not fare very well at all in my experience when doing that kind of test. Especially the bass does not sound very natural, but still when mixing electronic music they are both a pleasure to work with and translate well.

On the other hand speakers that sound very neutral and good for acoustic music (Circle 5's and Event 20/20 BAS spring to mind) can tend to sound a bit sluggish in their response when handling electronic music IMHO.

Like Stevil I do like Tannoys a lot though, and they seem to be able to handle any style really well.

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by theoryinmotion

The most helpful and insightfull reply in this thread!

Um, i & someone else said same earlier, but thanx

Each speaker has it's own characteristic that could be claimed to be better or not as good for certain types of music. However, there's a difference between playback that may emphasize certain strengths of each monitor, and critical mastering, which involves familiarity with the speaker's characteristics. Once the monitor's characteristics are familiar, any type of music can be effectively introduced.

[mustgroove]

Originally Posted by fr0st

Charlie May of spooky fame uses Genelec's, and if they are good enough for him and Sasha they are good enough for me.

Do you know which ones?

On the subject of other producers and what they use, I'm aware that Chris Lake also uses Genelecs (8030A or 8040A I think)... Also Ivan Gough (the main producer from TV Rock) uses ADAM S3As (which I think are widely regarded as KICK ASS speakers, but obviously outside the kind of price range being discussed in this thread)...

[diogodasilva]

Originally Posted by alexstringer

+1 thumbsup

gee this is hard... I often hear people saying that Event ASP8 are a somehow mackieISH with more definition. It employs the same type of sound but with tighter bass and clearer highs.

I wish somebody who owns it could clarify this question for us.


all the best...

[analogbass]

Originally Posted by diogodasilva

gee this is hard... I often hear people saying that Event ASP8 are a somehow mackieISH with more definition. It employs the same type of sound but with tighter bass and clearer highs.

I wish somebody who owns it could clarify this question for us.


all the best...

I can clarify that those Events sound better; they're within the smaller group of better sounding, more expensive monitors that includes Genelecs, Dynaudio, Tannoy, Quested, Westlake, ATC, etc., while the Mackies are arguably the top/good value within the larger group of lower-priced mass monitors.

The differences can only be generalized, since it's hard to know whose judgement is accurate; at some point various monitors have to be physically compared, or take a chance on something that has received lots of good reviews from a store with a return policy.

[stevelibby3]

I highly recommend the JBL lsr4328p's... Even without the Room Mode Correction, they sound great- Then when you utilize the RMC, you're golden... I'm very happy with my purchase

[kosmasepsilon]

i use the genelecs 8030 and i am pretty happy with them.

[sexxy]

Originally Posted by yareck

For dance bigger = better. The same with control room.

true but... also speaker placement its a big part of the equation,
also room shape & size and acoustic treatment + room eq

computer fan noise its also a big factor, theres no point in having a great speakers to be mixed with the pc fan noise at 80dB

---> instead of big speakers like tannoy 2x15, or jbl eon 15g2 or samson db500

it sounds way better purchasing minium 2 pairs (4 pairs or more better) of the same speakers,
with 5 or 6 inch cone, to make a small concert stereo vertical array! in your room
its AMAZING !!!

it gives a BIG SOUND, without the needed BIG SPL, you can hear details really easy without the SPL!

i would purchase 16/8 pairs of emu pm5 or similar like alesis monitor1
and make a mini concert vertical array
or 8x/16 pairs of absolute zero + qsc rmx850 or rmx1450 in another room
or jbl control25 or 32x jbl control 1 + room eq

just make some A/B tests in the store with your favorite song

any speaker with good room size, treatment and placement + room eq works good
i dont like the aluminium tweeter sound, & soft dome can be damaged easy, still works but sounds lifeless

titanium diaphragm sounds great or some soft domes

lower crossover point sounds more natural, near 1khz for the 1inch tweeter if its two-way

-------------------------------------------------------------

m-audio bx8a sounds revealing but somewhat dark tone colored

i had nice results usign jbl control25 + loudness eq

also like the jbl eon 15 g2 or samson db500

the krk rp8 sounds good but its verry sensitive to bass overload
voice coil clips easy,

the jbl 4343 sounded amazing with the 2405h tweter at maxium

the jbl 4412 sounded like a mini jbl sr4733a but better becouse the diaphragm size

dont like the tannoy concentric,

the urei 809 sounded good after a lot of room EQ

dont like the behringer truth a

i liked the jbl 4206 but eq.ed

the alesis monitor 1 great but the monitor 2 dont like them

dont like the mackie 826, or the krk st

soundcraft absolute zero sounded great, but i damaged them so easy , still worked but never sounded good again,

softdome tweeter are verry sensitive to exesive low freq. signals, they still sound but not as great as the first day

softdome tweeters needs 1or2 dedicated subwoofers,

the genelec sounds too perfect, and also need subwoofers

[sweetjesus]

[QUOTE=mustgroove;1267924]I'm aware that Chris Lake also uses Genelecs (8030A or 8040A I think)

but his stuff get mixed and tweaked on BM5a's

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by yareck

For dance bigger = better. The same with control room.

yes.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by sexxy

....it sounds way better purchasing minium 2 pairs (4 pairs or more better) of the same speakers,
with 5 or 6 inch cone, to make a small concert stereo vertical array! in your room
its AMAZING !!!

it gives a BIG SOUND, without the needed BIG SPL, you can hear details really easy without the SPL!........

all good, true on the room, and computer noise.
but more speakers means crappy stereo image.
one tries to have a point source, for your brain to make a nice 'picture'.
if you can live without that, then you can ignore this post.

[cosmos]

Originally Posted by mustgroove

I'm surprised that the ADAMs didn't go that low, considering they're rated to 43Hz according to their website...

The other alternative is to save my pennies and go for a pair of Focal Solo6s, but that might be overkill, and in any event, I have no idea how they are for dance music either...

I used to work alot with Dynaudio's BM6a and Tannoy's revel's, i upgraded to Focal's twin6, that was a HUGE upgrade! i love their sound,they translate very well and have enogh bass to cover your dance needs ..., i dont know about the solo's seires, never heard them before but you might want to try them.

focal is superb company with exellent products, you best option is just to listen to a few monitors and decide before you buy, dont go blind.