sending midi start messege to trigger a 303?

[Nordenstam]

Start it in the beginning and turn the volume level knob up when its time for the 303 sound to enter the track..? Like it in a live act or whatever two track recording thingy scenario.

(how hard can it be? it features a big glamourous volume knob.. use it! - .. sorry if this is a lame reply, I've been clubbing and am drunk now, but this really seems like a none issue! :D )

[edit machine]

i know how to record it, i know how to use the volume knob (duh!). what i **want** to do is send a midi start messege in the middle of the track so i don't have to start the song at the begining to get the 303 to trigger in the first place...let me break it down...when i start logic playing in the middle of the sequence (wich i'm doing because i'm trying to work on this specific part of the song) it sends a midi continue messege to my system, wich does not engage the kms30, and so the 303 won't play. the kms30 *only* triggers the 303 when i start logic from the begining of the song (because it recieves the midi start messege). i want to know if i can program a midi start messege to send to the kms30 during playback (or even at any point after the start point of the sequence), so the 303 can be triggered to play in the middle of the song...so i can work faster...does anyone know if this is possible?

[Reptil]

off the top of my head: forget about clock (start message is start clock, or am I wrong here??) then, just go with notes.
I can't think of any way to block clock in the middle of the song, or maybe it must be a hardware midi filter box that is programmed to intercept clock. seems pretty undoable, so yes the fast and easy way would be volume.

[edit machine]

well, i don't want to intercept the messege. i want to send it, like the way you would send a sysex messege to a synth (to change a patch for example). i just want to send the korg kms30 a midi "start" messege so that it will trigger the 303 it is controlling at any point in the song, instead of only at the begining of the song. i need a midi guru for this one i guess. any help?

[Nordenstam]

Didn't get it until that last post of yours. Sorry for the lame drunken reply last night.

Guess you've exhausted all logic resources(manual, forum etc)? Most programs wont allow what you want anyway, it's not part of the midi specifications or ideas.


http://www.midi.org/about-midi/table1.shtml - lists the midi real time messages. Shouldn't be too hard for a coder to make a util that translates, say, a certain midi note into a midi start trigger. Perhaps you can do it in a VST plug in creator software, Max MSP or similar?

Things like these really should be extremely simple on any computer. Seems one solution that may work in your scenario, would be to flip the last bit of the midi continue message, "11111011", into a midi start, "11111010". Which is about as logical and easy as it can get. One single little bit! Problem solved. Unfortunately, things like that are often hard to do despite the obviousness, at least for non-coders like me.

Perhaps you can ask someone that creates midi utilites if they can modify an existing code to fit with your specific need?

[Reptil]

I think it is possible to send any information to the 303. but i don't think there can be more than one clock in a system? so there is only ONE clock to work with.

[Nordenstam]

Idea!

Do you have a MIDI->CV/Gate you can use? You could tap into the Roland DIN Sync cable and start the 303 manually at pin one in the DIN sync connector. When this is low(0 volt), the machine waits, when it's high(5 volt), it runs.

It would work if you could apply a continuous long note for the duration you want the 303 to run and use a gate output to control the din sync start/stop.

[Reptil]

that could work.

[edit machine]

interesting, i like the idea of using some kind of plug in midi generator to send the messege. i was trying to enter the hex / decimal code into a a blank region in the list editor but it didn't want to accept the command, i guess because it's the kind of thing the program only wants to send on it's own....but tricking out some kind of vst plug to send the messege just might work! any idea what plug in i would use? and would i have to use some kind of vst to AU wrapper to get that plugin in there in the first place?

as far as the cv idea, i do have midi to cv but my 303 is not modified, so it only has cv outs....i'm not sure i understand what you mean by tap into the din sync control...would i have to mod it?

thanks for helping me think this one over!

[Nordenstam]

Originally Posted by edit machine

.. tricking out some kind of vst plug to send the messege just might work! any idea what plug in i would use? and would i have to use some kind of vst to AU wrapper to get that plugin in there in the first place?

Sorry, no help here beyond the ideas mentioned above.

Anyone?

as far as the cv idea, i do have midi to cv but my 303 is not modified, so it only has cv outs....i'm not sure i understand what you mean by tap into the din sync control...would i have to mod it?

The din sync cable use three connectors, one for the clock sync, another for the start signal and a third ground return path. Check the pin out here

The problem for you is that the KMS midi->din sync unit doesn't open up the Start signal when it recieves a midi continue message. If it still sends the clock, but not the start(as is usual), this can fix it: use any 5 volt signal to start the sequencer, like a gate signal derived from a midi note. Cut the din sync cable and inject the new gate signal at pin one. You don't even need to solder, scissor and electricans tape would work fine!

[Electric Motel]

Originally Posted by edit machine

interesting, i like the idea of using some kind of plug in midi generator to send the messege. i was trying to enter the hex / decimal code into a a blank region in the list editor but it didn't want to accept the command, i guess because it's the kind of thing the program only wants to send on it's own....but tricking out some kind of vst plug to send the messege just might work! any idea what plug in i would use? and would i have to use some kind of vst to AU wrapper to get that plugin in there in the first place?

as far as the cv idea, i do have midi to cv but my 303 is not modified, so it only has cv outs....i'm not sure i understand what you mean by tap into the din sync control...would i have to mod it?

thanks for helping me think this one over!

Hello all! Just discovered this forum and i think its amazing. Tonnes of info...

Anyway...I have an electronics background and have made several midi to sync converters for my own use. Some machines do use more than the standard 3 pins for din sync. Pin 4 is actually the reset/start and pin 3 is the fillin/continue. Most software will transmit these midi messages but I'm not sure if the KMS30 can understand them. Even if it does I know the 303 does not make use of the extra two pins on the din cable. Later machines did, like the 909 and the 707 but not the 303. Lupo's idea seems to be the only solution.
Here's how I would do it....Setup any VST to control your midi->CV/GATE converter. Draw a note in your software when you want the 303 to start playing and sustain the note the whole time you want the 303 running. Now the GATE output of your converter can act as the start for your 303.
You will now need to cut the one end of your GATE wire so you have the two conductors exposed. Make sure you know which is gnd and which is the gate signal. Take your din cable from the KMS30 to your 303 and strip back the sheath. You will have to sacrafice another cable here. Determine which wire goes to pin 1 of your din connector. Cut this wire and attach the GATE wire to the wire going to pin 1 on the 303 side. Now determine which wire is the ground ie pin 2 of your din connector. Strip back this wire, do not cut it, and attach your GATE ground wire. It should be fine to just wrap the gate gnd wire around the exposed conductor with a bit of electrical tape. There you have it.
One note of caution though. Some CV/GATE converters output a 10V pulse rather than a 5V pulse. It might be good to check yours with a multimeter if you have one. I don't know this for sure but a 10V start signal might damage the 303 because it is expecting 5V.

Good Luck

[edit machine]

thanks to all you guys for helping me think this through, the idea about cutting the wire seems like a good idea....but....the 303 is not mine, it belongs to my production partner and he doesn't want to start hacking it apart. He figured out a great workaround. It's logic specific but works great! In logic you can draw a line from back to front over a selection of time and the section will be skipped, so we are just letting the first 4 bars of the arangment play, then we use this technique to "skip" up to the breakdown where we want to bring in the 303. So now we can work effeciantly without butchering the cables!

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by edit machine

thanks to all you guys for helping me think this through, the idea about cutting the wire seems like a good idea....but....the 303 is not mine, it belongs to my production partner and he doesn't want to start hacking it apart. He figured out a great workaround. It's logic specific but works great! In logic you can draw a line from back to front over a selection of time and the section will be skipped, so we are just letting the first 4 bars of the arangment play, then we use this technique to "skip" up to the breakdown where we want to bring in the 303. So now we can work effeciantly without butchering the cables!

great that you found it.
and cut the midicable not the 303!

[edit machine]

oh the cables, the cables....right! ok, my buddy and I are looking over this info with great interest, we are going to try to cut some cables up like you guys have suggested. thanks! and, i'll be sure to let you know how it turns out.

[edit machine]

we have a kenton pro solo midi to cv, could the aux cv output be used to send the gate singnal to the moded cable?

[Reptil]

sure. try it!

[Electric Motel]

Originally Posted by edit machine

we have a kenton pro solo midi to cv, could the aux cv output be used to send the gate singnal to the moded cable?

Yes, you can definitely use this signal. Make sure you send a high note so that your cv output will be 5V or greater, enough to trigger the gate. Anything above middle C should be ok I think.