Ableton Live...what am I missing?

[Jazzpunk]

I currently use Logic Pro and Pro Tools along with Reason and NI's Komplete. I am curious if there are features about Ableton Live that I am not already covered on.

I'd love to hear from others who already have similar set ups as to what holes they feel Ableton Live fills.

Anything about it you can't live without now?

Thanks

[MAJIK]

Ableton has phenomenal time stretching. Nothing comes close in my book.

[SingingTrousers]

There's a couple of features I love about Live;

* Unlinked Clip-based automation, making it easy to have different-length envelopes looping, automating different parameters

* Real-time resampling; I love this for sound design-type stuff - resample, filter, reverse, reverb, delay, gate, then set up odd-length envelopes looping over even-length bars, then resample, reverse, filter etc etc

* Automatic time stretching/ability to preview loops/hits, then drag them into the sequencer/arrange window

* Easy routing between tracks

I'm probably biased, since it's my only sequencer, but for me it excels at rhythmic, electronic or sample-based music, as well as experimental, sound-design and ambient music. If I was only recording bands or something I'd probably go with something different.

Hope this is helpful. I pretty much only use Ableton Live and Komplete 3 for my stuff

[eddu]

I´d dare to say Live is the best app to use as a DAW and live performance when you do loop or pattern based music.

Benefits are too many to mention here. I´d sugest you spend 1 afternoon reading the manual or, better, doing the lessons you see at the right side af the screen. Then you´ll see...it will change everything..at least it idid for me and everybody i know who has willed to learn this fantastic program.

[mastermix]

Check out some of the movies on the Ableton site to see the power of this app.

Others have already explained some of the many benefits. It is a great app by itself, used in conjunction with others via Rewire takes things to another level.

[LinearBeat]

I don't really have much to say that hasn't already been said. But Live definitely has my vote. I'm somewhat new to the program, but the thing that I've been most impressed with so far is the real time workflow. You can arm, record, disarm and edit a loop all while the track is playing. Live takes a very unique approach to music creation and it's definitely a winner in my book.

[Tibbon]

I'm picking up Live 6 in a few weeks. From what i've seen and tried in the demo... it's simply the absolute best thing in the world for drum editing.

Truth be told, I didn't "get" live at first either. But it's really matured into a killer program.

Also it seems to be simply amazing for nearly instantly being able to remix and rearrange stuff. I use Logic currently, and Live 6 seems to kill it for workflow for writing songs initially too.

Also I've been trying to figure out the best way ( I know I can with Live) to play multiple instruments, and mix/remix myself live. Live Seems to be the way to go.

I wouldn't likely use it as my ONLY daw, but it does seem to be a great way to start projects and writing, and also a great way to edit drums.

For drum editing you basically link all the tracks, and then just drag the beat markers onto each beat. It automatically timestretches each beat then, and you can regroove things instantly too. It's simply amazing. Kills beat detective, or monkeying around in Logic for drum editing.

Vocal editing is pretty fun too.

[eddu]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

I wouldn't likely use it as my ONLY daw, but it does seem to be a great way to start projects and writing, and also a great way to edit drums.

This is the kind of thing you think when you just get what the program is about. As soon as you´ll get deeper into Live you´ll realize you dont need anything else.

[henryrobinett]

I've used Live on and off for about three years and I still don't get it.

[Jazzpunk]

Thanks for all of the responses. I am definitely curious enough to clear some time and sit down with this ap. Sometimes though I feel I spend too much time chasing after the next best thing instead of focusing on recording and mixing!

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

I'm picking up Live 6 in a few weeks. From what i've seen and tried in the demo... it's simply the absolute best thing in the world for drum editing.

Truth be told, I didn't "get" live at first either. But it's really matured into a killer program.

Also it seems to be simply amazing for nearly instantly being able to remix and rearrange stuff. I use Logic currently, and Live 6 seems to kill it for workflow for writing songs initially too.

Also I've been trying to figure out the best way ( I know I can with Live) to play multiple instruments, and mix/remix myself live. Live Seems to be the way to go.

I wouldn't likely use it as my ONLY daw, but it does seem to be a great way to start projects and writing, and also a great way to edit drums.

For drum editing you basically link all the tracks, and then just drag the beat markers onto each beat. It automatically timestretches each beat then, and you can regroove things instantly too. It's simply amazing. Kills beat detective, or monkeying around in Logic for drum editing.

Vocal editing is pretty fun too.

Yeah, after 20 minutes with this ap I can already see it replacing Logic for me (prefer recording and editing audio in Pro Tools). I think this is the supplement I had been looking for to PT when I originally purchased Logic.

Very cool

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by eddu

This is the kind of thing you think when you just get what the program is about. As soon as you´ll get deeper into Live you´ll realize you dont need anything else.

Hmm. I can see how that would work for some people, but stuff like a deeper midi environment, post production tools, strong surround support, low-latency (TDM/HD users) for tracking bands and using plugins would keep me and many others from using it as the only thing.

But for mainly electronic music (and thus this forum) I could see that being true.

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Yeah, after 20 minutes with this ap I can already see it replacing Logic for me (prefer recording and editing audio in Pro Tools). I think this is the supplement I had been looking for to PT when I originally purchased Logic.

Very cool

I was in the same boat with Logic about a year or two ago. Right now I could see myself using Protools HD, Live, and Max/MSP to cover all my needs. Logic is strong for Midi, but looks like a puppy compared to Max/MSP. Oh, and I guess i'd need Finale or Sibelius for notation... I wonder when PT is going to finally integrate a notation program (since they bought one!)

Too bad just ONE company doesn't do it all right yet.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

I was in the same boat with Logic about a year or two ago. Right now I could see myself using Protools HD, Live, and Max/MSP to cover all my needs. Logic is strong for Midi, but looks like a puppy compared to Max/MSP. Oh, and I guess i'd need Finale or Sibelius for notation... I wonder when PT is going to finally integrate a notation program (since they bought one!)

Too bad just ONE company doesn't do it all right yet.

Sibelius is already integrated, you still have to buy it seperately though. I think a dedicated notating program is better as updates and bugfixes should come a lot faster than with Logic. I'm basically just hanging on to my Logic dongle until I see what 8 brings. Skimming the surface of Live is making me less interested by the minute however!

[Reptil]

K, version 6.
what do you guys think about..
integration with Logic? good? workflow from live->logic->live??
timestretch? did not like it at all in previous versions (plastic bag sound). better now?
(comparing to melodyne etc?)
midi? (compared to logic?)

[eddu]

Hmm. I can see how that would work for some people, but stuff like a deeper midi environment, post production tools, strong surround support, low-latency (TDM/HD users) for tracking bands and using plugins would keep me and many others from using it as the only thing.

Yes, i am talking only about producing electronic music. I suppose if i had to record a band i´d better use PT (well thats not true but i can see the point). Anyway if i only need a vocal or a pair of audio tracks they are easily recorded and mixed within Live. No need to change. MIDI is very simple in Live but, for my matters, thats enough (record, simple edits, iterative quantize and MIDI fx).

Its basically that you do things twice faster when writing music.

[Tod Miner]

LIVE users since version 1. Love it as a plug rewired to DP. Would never use it as my sole DAW. It's good as a quick and dirty sketch pad and as an adjunct in my LIVE shows. IMHO, The warp engine is a beneficial tool, but it can Kill the groove in Beat oriented music. It has no swing function and, once you "straighten" your groove - you kill it!

[toolskid]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Kills beat detective, .

With the greatest of respect, its very much more simplistic than beat detective in its scope. Don't get me wrong, i LOVE live and use it all the time, but theres a lot of things it cannot do so well as it is timestretching rather than chopping. Theres somethings it does very well indeed, such as instant timestretching of pre-chopped bar-length non-tempo-specific audio that is out of this world! For all but the simplest of drum editing it will cause you problems!

[blaugruen7]

please be more specific.
i have live just since some days and i am just getting into it.
i hear often that people dont like editing with it.
but give me an example what kind of editing you mean.

[theoryinmotion]

Originally Posted by toolskid

For all but the simplest of drum editing it will cause you problems!

I very much agree! While we use Live for our live performances, it could never replace Cubase for our DAW in the studio. Maybe this is just because we are so used to Cubase, maybe it is because we use absolutely NO samples in our production. Everything we do we sequence oursleves...including all edits, glitches, and fills. Not to mention VST automation needs that I just don't feel I have the same control in Live when doing.

Like I said though...maybe I just am being lazy and live really can do all the things I am currently using Cubase for....but coming from a guy who uses both I am very much happy using Cubase in the studio and Live in performance situations.

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Tod Miner

LIVE users since version 1. Love it as a plug rewired to DP. Would never use it as my sole DAW. It's good as a quick and dirty sketch pad and as an adjunct in my LIVE shows. IMHO, The warp engine is a beneficial tool, but it can Kill the groove in Beat oriented music. It has no swing function and, once you "straighten" your groove - you kill it!

Yes it does have a swing function.

[Tod Miner]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

Yes it does have a swing function.

I'm in Version 5.

Does 6 have a swing function?

It may be interesting to see what "Swing" after "Warp" would sound like.

[Jazzpunk]

So now that I've invested some time into this program I am hooked. I have not had this much fun programming beats in a while ( I do IDM and glitchy type breaks).

If Apple doesn't blow me away with Logic 8, my dongle will be on eBay and I'll upgrade to the full version of Live (in conjunction with PT) with zero regrets.

Thanks for getting me motivated to delve into this program guys

[rids]

I agree, Apple needs to make Logic more intuitive (maybe I just need to set up more key commands...) along with offering something along the lines of Live for beat/audio creation. I'm just thinking about getting Live to supplement Logic, I think they'd work good together. Logic for the whole picture of mixing everything and Live for pattern creation.

Anyone know how Live compares to Roland's Varios (their time/format/groove streching sampler)?

[kenn.michael]

Originally Posted by Tod Miner

I'm in Version 5.

Does 6 have a swing function?

It may be interesting to see what "Swing" after "Warp" would sound like.

Live has had a swing function predating Version 4 I think... They allowed you to swing your audio before they added MIDI to the app.

[rids]

One thing I'm concerned with Live is that my buddy in my band gets a drum beat and rearranges it as an audio track. If I want him to break it down or take out some drum parts he can't. That sucks when there is a really cool beat (that got rearranged however it's done) in Live, but then you can't tailor specific parts of the beat and take drum hits out.

Anyone care to tackle this problem?

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by rids

One thing I'm concerned with Live is that my buddy in my band gets a drum beat and rearranges it as an audio track. If I want him to break it down or take out some drum parts he can't. That sucks when there is a really cool beat (that got rearranged however it's done) in Live, but then you can't tailor specific parts of the beat and take drum hits out.

Anyone care to tackle this problem?

If he is programming his own beats by triggering samples then all he needs to do is render each kit element seperately and put it on it's own track.

If he is working with loops then some of the hits are going to be tied together by the very nature that the source material is most likely a stereo loop. He can still chop these rendered elements up and seperate them to some degree. This would at least give you options for muting different elements during your arrangement.

It's not an issue with Live, it's how your buddy is making his beats. It would be the same dilemma in any DAW.

[rids]

I think he using drum sounds from Drumtonic ( or matic),which I'm not familiar with, and then he has Live make a sequence out of those hits. He says that the loops he makes in Live are 'Audio' and can't be editing by taking each element.

It seems like Live will allow you to create different variations of a loop (I don't know if this is the Warp feature or what) if it's audio. Does Live do the same thing for Midi, as in taking the kick, snare and hihat of Drumtonic and creating different loops with those sounds? And then once it creates a loop I like, can take out certain hits I don't like from the loop?

(I'm thinking it must be that Warp feature that he was using to make those audio loops.)

[blaugruen7]

i have live only for a few days and its really a inspiring tool.
i am again and again fascinated by small details of it.
very cool music MAKING tool-
i can only recommend you to download the fully working demo of it.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by rids

I think he using drum sounds from Drumtonic ( or matic),which I'm not familiar with, and then he has Live make a sequence out of those hits. He says that the loops he makes in Live are 'Audio' and can't be editing by taking each element.

It seems like Live will allow you to create different variations of a loop (I don't know if this is the Warp feature or what) if it's audio. Does Live do the same thing for Midi, as in taking the kick, snare and hihat of Drumtonic and creating different loops with those sounds? And then once it creates a loop I like, can take out certain hits I don't like from the loop?

(I'm thinking it must be that Warp feature that he was using to make those audio loops.)

I'd suggest just checking out his methods. It's really hard to help without knowing what he is doing exactly.

If he is indeed programming his own beats and not using loops then all he needs to do is render each element of his kit seperately.

Like I said, this is not a Live specific issue, this is an issue with his workflow/style of programming.