Creative filtering

[Horpe]

Hellay!

Dance and electronic are full of creative filtering, so:

Like to hear what approach/techniques you use when adapting filters (LP/HP etc) to individual tracks and/or submixes.

I like to bounce the section (tracks) I want to filter to a new stereo track (named Filter Track) which I route to a Filter Buss. On the Filter Buss I insert a suitable EQ or filter plug and then use automation curves to play along.

Maybe there are more creative ways? How do you proceed?

Cheers!

/Horpe

[Horpe]

Nobody?

[robd]

This isn't particularly creative in and of itself but it can be used creatively. If you have a sherman or some other fairly versatile filter, you can get cool effects by using one track to modulate another one. You can just have, say, a drum track FMing or AMing a melody track. You can get more drastic stuff by running one track through the filter and another track into the envelope follower input or envelope trigger. You can also effect a submix, or use a submix as the modulation source. There are really so many possibilities that I think thinking of interesting things to do is really the easy part. The hard part is figureing out how to do those things in a musical way, and where they will and won't fit.

[Horpe]

Hey, that was creative indeed! Sounds advanced for a novice, like me...

I don't own a Sherman or any other hardware filter, but can this translate to ITB?

In that case, what plugins should be appropriate?

Thanks for your answer!

Cheers!

/Horpe

[Jesse Skeens]

Horpe you just need a plugin that can accept an external input to use as modulation. Not too many do although I remember the Timewarp Arp2600's filter input mode can.

I do similar as you, although many times I dont actually bounce down. I just have my tracks going to preseleted groups and filter them that way. Say for instance on my drum buss I'll use a HPF to lead up into breaks and transitions.

Fav filters for me are the Fabfilter Volcano and Filterscape.

Jesse

[Horpe]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

I just have my tracks going to preseleted groups...

Yes, Jesse, that's a good way to do it. For saving cpu, do you bypass the filter via automation after (or between) use(s)? I've had a few problems with glitches and pops when bypassing/shutting down plugs when project runs.

I'll look into your favs and also the Sonalksis TBK2... Any experience with that one?

Cheers!

/Horpe

[Pollyrythm]

I was drafting a similar thread... no joke.

What im interested in discussing is how Daft Punk got that filtered bass sound on the Scott Grooves rmx "Mothership Connection & the tiny snippets of filtered audio that are programmed in the bridge section between the intro bars & the main theme... Im not entirely sure how descriptive this may be, but if anyone has any ideas id be glad to hear.

Iv also taken a few steps back to the earlier house sound like Pnau's record "Sambanova" on tracks like need your love baby. There's this filtered guitar type sound in the intro that just sounds rad....

Im looking at purchasing a Sherman, however I have a feeling i'll need to upgrade my audio interface to have greater routing capabilities within logic - i.e., sending say the outs of Kontackt into the Sherman etc

There's the age old hi pass filtering of sections of the mix (or the whole thing!) which seem to be coming back, a la Mason Exceeder. Fairly simple, yet effective way of adding character to a track??

[Horpe]

Yes! Don't underestimate HP! I like to play with that from time to time

So, Polly...(and everyone else) how would you do it ITB?

1. Bouncing to special track on which filter plug is inserted. Then use automation on that track.

2. Write new file /bounce WITH FILTER to a new file. A little more lengthy procedure if you decide you're not happy with the result, since you have no inserted plug to adjust in real time.

3. Like Jesse, route to preselected groups and there use inserted filters at moments.

4. Modulation between tracks.

5. Other...


/Horpe

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

Horpe you just need a plugin that can accept an external input to use as modulation. Not too many do although I remember the Timewarp Arp2600's filter input mode can.

I do similar as you, although many times I dont actually bounce down. I just have my tracks going to preseleted groups and filter them that way. Say for instance on my drum buss I'll use a HPF to lead up into breaks and transitions.

Fav filters for me are the Fabfilter Volcano and Filterscape.

Jesse

This is nice. I am struggling with finishing songs because I am not setting up my transitions right..I write drums and hooks quickly and think of parts but then my arrangement gets stale because I stall at the transition point.

So basically you automate fabfilter for the whole song from normal to sweeps? I'd love to hear more in depth stuff on this..i think I get daunted by the whole "sweep..bounce down" thing because my approach sucks.

I would love to be able to have a better template where I can easily get my arrangement going once I have my drums and hooks rocking a 16 bar loop.

[vls]

Hi!

Does someone know any midi-controllable HP/LP filters? or perhaps multi-fx, which can do this?

Thanks,

Volker

[Pollyrythm]

Originally Posted by Horpe

Yes! Don't underestimate HP! I like to play with that from time to time

So, Polly...(and everyone else) how would you do it ITB?

1. Bouncing to special track on which filter plug is inserted. Then use automation on that track.

2. Write new file /bounce WITH FILTER to a new file. A little more lengthy procedure if you decide you're not happy with the result, since you have no inserted plug to adjust in real time.

3. Like Jesse, route to preselected groups and there use inserted filters at moments.

4. Modulation between tracks.

5. Other...


/Horpe

Hi Horpe,

Id be more inclined to assign the tracks that will be passed through the Filter to a BUS & then apply automation to the BUS track.

For example if you were in Logic, you would assign the respective Channel's to BUS 1, insert a HPF plug-in at the top insert, go back to the Arrange Page & bring up Track Automation, then automate the HPF Frequency (cut off effectively) setting to your desired settings.

Whilst you might not be on the Logic platform, the principals are essentially the same & can be applied to most (if not all) applications.

Hope this helps.

[robd]

I'm not really sure what kind of plugs both sound good and have those routing capabilities. You can, of course, make something like that in plogue or reaktor or max, though. Using the default filters on these apps (maybe with the exception of reaktor, I don't know it too well but it's got some decent sounding filters in it.) will tend to sound more sterile than a good plug designed to emulate an analog filter (even a good plug will sound sterile commpared to real analog imho.) You can work around this if you have cpu cycles to spare by running it through several filters in parallell, all attatched to the same controls and very slightly detuned from one another. You can also make the resonances respond slightly more or less to the resonance control, add a tiny bit of a different very slow lfo to the cutoff of each filter in the group, throw in a little feedback, etc etc. This will probably not sound as good as somethilng like volcano unless you're better at it than I am, but it will go a ways towards getting you there and you can make the routing as verstile as you want it. Also, plogue is very versatile and is cheaper than the volcano.
Personally, I like my sherman way better than plugs.

As far as midi controlled filterboxes, the sherman is at least partly midi controllable. The electrix also is, as far as I know. Most monosynths (microcon, evolver, etc. ) are midi contollable and have external inputs for the filters.

Another variation of the trick I mentioned earlierr that I like is this: When you completely distort a drum track , it usually kind of smears and loses definition on the envelope. in addition to just adding a triggered amp envelope, which is sometimes not what you want, I find you can get some of the resolution back by running the distorted track through the filter while running the undistorted version of the same track into the filter's envelope follower.

[entropy]

If you're applying it at the programming stage, particularly for drums, map the midi velocity to filter cutoff and hey presto!

Or another common map (better suited for synths/bass etc) was mapping the mod wheel to filter cutoff.

and bring up the resonance as far as u can without "damaging" the unfiltered sound

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Horpe

Yes, Jesse, that's a good way to do it. For saving cpu, do you bypass the filter via automation after (or between) use(s)? I've had a few problems with glitches and pops when bypassing/shutting down plugs when project runs.

I'll look into your favs and also the Sonalksis TBK2... Any experience with that one?

Cheers!

/Horpe

I mainly bypass becuase I dont want my drums running through an extra plugin, even if the cutoff is set all the way low/hi. And with some plugs like the volcano I find that it get some saturation from it which I dont want all the time too.

This past remix I did I had to put a crash around the time the filter got turned on to help blend the fact that all of a sudden the drums had a bit of saturation going on.

I generally havent had problems with glitches though.

I've used TBK2 as well

Jesse

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Pollyrythm

I was drafting a similar thread... no joke.

What im interested in discussing is how Daft Punk got that filtered bass sound on the Scott Grooves rmx "Mothership Connection & the tiny snippets of filtered audio that are programmed in the bridge section between the intro bars & the main theme... Im not entirely sure how descriptive this may be, but if anyone has any ideas id be glad to hear.

Iv also taken a few steps back to the earlier house sound like Pnau's record "Sambanova" on tracks like need your love baby. There's this filtered guitar type sound in the intro that just sounds rad....

Im looking at purchasing a Sherman, however I have a feeling i'll need to upgrade my audio interface to have greater routing capabilities within logic - i.e., sending say the outs of Kontackt into the Sherman etc

There's the age old hi pass filtering of sections of the mix (or the whole thing!) which seem to be coming back, a la Mason Exceeder. Fairly simple, yet effective way of adding character to a track??

Be careful with the sherman though. while a wonderfully unique filter I didnt use mine much as it cant really do that nice lopass house filter thing, its way too aggressive.
Ended up selling it after a few years of it mostly collecting dust.

The mutator is much better for that.

Jesse

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Methlab

This is nice. I am struggling with finishing songs because I am not setting up my transitions right..I write drums and hooks quickly and think of parts but then my arrangement gets stale because I stall at the transition point.

So basically you automate fabfilter for the whole song from normal to sweeps? I'd love to hear more in depth stuff on this..i think I get daunted by the whole "sweep..bounce down" thing because my approach sucks.

I would love to be able to have a better template where I can easily get my arrangement going once I have my drums and hooks rocking a 16 bar loop.

I just automate it on when the section comes up, filter, and then auto it off.

A good one for just plain HP filtering is the Waves Q1. Does a nice clean sweep if thats all you need and doesnt take much resources.

I got a track coming out on Nervous early this year that uses a lot of it as my friend I was working with was a big fan of this type of effect and I'm finding it really useful to give tracks more of a polished sound.

I also went out to see a dj here in amsterdam and noticed how many tracks had HPF going on right before the drums kicked it. Maybe it was the DJ though.

Jesse

[Pollyrythm]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

Be careful with the sherman though. while a wonderfully unique filter I didnt use mine much as it cant really do that nice lopass house filter thing, its way too aggressive.
Ended up selling it after a few years of it mostly collecting dust.

The mutator is much better for that.

Jesse

Thanks Jesse.

Another attractive thing about the Sherman is the effect it has on Guitars with Distortion etc, is the Mutator any good at this?. I like the granular effects on allot of Daft Punks tracks & as I understand, they also use a Mutator, which apparently is their "main" filter used. I also cant seem to find it anywhere in Australia, so I may have to purchase it from Mutronics directly.

Can I send you a snippet of audio of the various sounds im going for can you let me know if the Mutator is the way to go? Sorry iv just never used one.

[Pollyrythm]

Originally Posted by entropy

If you're applying it at the programming stage, particularly for drums, map the midi velocity to filter cutoff and hey presto!

Or another common map (better suited for synths/bass etc) was mapping the mod wheel to filter cutoff.

and bring up the resonance as far as u can without "damaging" the unfiltered sound

Are you mapping Midi Veloc in Logic? If so, how are you doing this?

[Pollyrythm]

Here they are Jesse.

With "Mother 2" example, im trying to get my head around the filtered sound on the Bass, sounds very MS 20, however iv got one & still can't quite nail it

[Methlab]

Great info. I was using the SBK2 myself. It is nice, automates easily, but I will definitley try out the Q1

it's funny, I never thought that I could automate the plug turning off and on, so that tip alone will make my life easier. I will definitely use busses. I will probably have about 5-10 dedicated to sweeps and automation.

[JFN - Sonalksis]

Originally Posted by Horpe

Yes, Jesse, that's a good way to do it. For saving cpu, do you bypass the filter via automation after (or between) use(s)? I've had a few problems with glitches and pops when bypassing/shutting down plugs when project runs.

I'll look into your favs and also the Sonalksis TBK2... Any experience with that one?

Cheers!

/Horpe

Hi,

If you have a look at TBK2, TBK1 (filter) (or any of our plug-ins) you will find that we have provided a bypass parameter/button built in to the plug-in to help you out in those cases where the host introduces unwanted pops or noises when using the bypass param built in on the track insert on the host.

Good luck with your tweaking!

JFN

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Methlab

Great info. I was using the SBK2 myself. It is nice, automates easily, but I will definitley try out the Q1

it's funny, I never thought that I could automate the plug turning off and on, so that tip alone will make my life easier. I will definitely use busses. I will probably have about 5-10 dedicated to sweeps and automation.

That's a lot of busing. I've really only had maybe 2-3 at most, drums, synths, effects.

If you need more control than that maybe just automate/filter them at the track level.

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Pollyrythm

Here they are Jesse.

With "Mother 2" example, im trying to get my head around the filtered sound on the Bass, sounds very MS 20, however iv got one & still can't quite nail it

Ya I'm hearing that kind of resonant almost wah wah sound on some of these clips that the mutator would do very well.

It's almost the antithesis of the sherman. The mutator is very warm and smooth and big sounding. You can get huge low end from self reso and low cutoff with it as well.
And it has that nice elasticy resonance response. And finally you can overdrive it and it just saturates smoothly without any of the harshness that the sherman has.

It's deffinatly more of that disco house filter sound than the sherman. when I think of the sherman its more about techno/IDM stuff.

In those clips though it seems like there is some fast phaser going on too but maybe they are phasing the mutator out with itself.

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

That's a lot of busing. I've really only had maybe 2-3 at most, drums, synths, effects.

If you need more control than that maybe just automate/filter them at the track level.

Ok..I see...so do you put your effects on group channels instead of FX channels? I ask this because in Cubase the routing is wierd with the FX channels. In the past I have put all my effects into group tracks and then routed them all into another group so I can parallel compress them.


A drum group, then a synth one, then an FX one would probably make more sense. Then for detail, I can get on each individual track if needed.

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Methlab

Ok..I see...so do you put your effects on group channels instead of FX channels? I ask this because in Cubase the routing is wierd with the FX channels. In the past I have put all my effects into group tracks and then routed them all into another group so I can parallel compress them.


A drum group, then a synth one, then an FX one would probably make more sense. Then for detail, I can get on each individual track if needed.

Since were talking about EQ/Filters here you'd put it on a buss not an FX send.

I havent had too much problems with the FX routing as it is. If I want to compress effects returns I just put a comp at the end of the chain on that FX channel.

[Tantrum The Cat]

Originally Posted by Horpe

Hellay!

Dance and electronic are full of creative filtering, so:

Like to hear what approach/techniques you use when adapting filters (LP/HP etc) to individual tracks and/or submixes.

I like to bounce the section (tracks) I want to filter to a new stereo track (named Filter Track) which I route to a Filter Buss. On the Filter Buss I insert a suitable EQ or filter plug and then use automation curves to play along.

Maybe there are more creative ways? How do you proceed?

Cheers!

/Horpe

I almost always have my Cutoff and Resonance running in parallel - so when the Cutoff goes down, the Resonance goes up, and vice versa. A bunch of my Reason Combinator patches are set (I have an INSANE Reason rack template for dance music, which I feed into Logic Pro) so that I can it with one "knob" instead of two...

[blackwatch]

Nigga Skeenz thinking Sherman Filter Bank too dirty?!

This is coming from the nigga who uses an SP12 & Mirage for sampling!!

I find myself constantly modulating (filtering) loads of tracks within arrangements

The UAD Cambridge is great for lots of precise and clean cuts
Low pass and high pass filters, 2nd-6th order Butterworth and elliptical filters as well as standard cut filters from 6-36db/octave

The Sony Oxford filter curves have been rockin' my world as well


Props to Sonalksis as well! You guys are right in line with Putnam and crew


You coming back to play any WMC joints Jesse?

I've been invited to play on the Ultra Festival soundsytem this year...i might put something together w/ Winston Irie and some other brooklyn niggas

[Pollyrythm]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

Ya I'm hearing that kind of resonant almost wah wah sound on some of these clips that the mutator would do very well.

YES! I guess part of the sound im looking for is that really distinct Wah kind of sound, yet filtered & not in a way that a conventional Wah pedal would sound

It's almost the antithesis of the sherman. The mutator is very warm and smooth and big sounding. You can get huge low end from self reso and low cutoff with it as well.
And it has that nice elasticy resonance response. And finally you can overdrive it and it just saturates smoothly without any of the harshness that the sherman has.

Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by elasticy resonance response?

It's deffinatly more of that disco house filter sound than the sherman. when I think of the sherman its more about techno/IDM stuff.

In those clips though it seems like there is some fast phaser going on too but maybe they are phasing the mutator out with itself.

Yeh in the Daft tracks it features quite heavily.

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by blackwatch

Nigga Skeenz thinking Sherman Filter Bank too dirty?!

This is coming from the nigga who uses an SP12 & Mirage for sampling!!

I find myself constantly modulating (filtering) loads of tracks within arrangements

The UAD Cambridge is great for lots of precise and clean cuts
Low pass and high pass filters, 2nd-6th order Butterworth and elliptical filters as well as standard cut filters from 6-36db/octave

The Sony Oxford filter curves have been rockin' my world as well


Props to Sonalksis as well! You guys are right in line with Putnam and crew


You coming back to play any WMC joints Jesse?

I've been invited to play on the Ultra Festival soundsytem this year...i might put something together w/ Winston Irie and some other brooklyn niggas

Prob not making it to WMC this year but well see.

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

I havent had too much problems with the FX routing as it is. If I want to compress effects returns I just put a comp at the end of the chain on that FX channel.

True, I was parallel comping them all through the same compressor instead of using an insert in the channel. But thanks for the input on your workflow, it sure helps. I have always wanted to up my automation chops substantially, and that's what im focusing on now.