Limiter for dance music

[eddu]

Right now i´m using elephant. Which one in your opinion should work better with those loud kicks?

THX

[Jesse Skeens]

I'm actually a fan of just clipping or manually drawing out peaks.

[Luko]

software wise lately I have been using the nomad blue tubes bundle quite a bit, I like the way the brickwall limiter sounds on my tracks, i just slightly slam the track into it and it comes out sounding

[ShaneFontane]

i use UAD Precision Limiter... works well for me and i really enjoy the look and feel of the UI

[eddu]

Thanks for the opinions. From what i´ver read Ozone´s limiter is also very very good, especially the dithering .Any thoughts on that?

MLP1 from Kjaerhus has quite a lot of fans as well. I´ve never used it.

Prec. Limiter is known to be better for not so dramatic volume changes, better for moderate pop, jazz, ballads, etc. But hey, if its sounds good to you..

[XHipHop]

Originally Posted by Luko

software wise lately I have been using the nomad blue tubes bundle quite a bit, I like the way the brickwall limiter sounds on my tracks, i just slightly slam the track into it and it comes out sounding

I also like the LM-662 for dance music. ESPECIALLY for how you can shape the kick with it when it's on a bus.

[jdg]

whats your final release medium? mp3? cd? vinyl?

[Jesse Skeens]

Actually I forgot to add that Compadre from OtiumFx is excellent for dance compression and envelope shaping.

Haven't used Ozone in a while, got it when it first came out but then stopped using.

As far as dither, this is dance music so don't even worry about it. Just make the shit slamming and no one is going to care or even be able to tell if you used a dither.

I straight up truncate my final masters and they still sound clean and nice.

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

I also like the LM-662 for dance music. ESPECIALLY for how you can shape the kick with it when it's on a bus.

Nice tip, just checked this out, has a great "grab" to it.

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Luko

software wise lately I have been using the nomad blue tubes bundle quite a bit, I like the way the brickwall limiter sounds on my tracks, i just slightly slam the track into it and it comes out sounding

Are you talking about the limiter on the eqs?


edit: sorry see they have a dedicated brick wall limiter plug too.

[Methlab]

I have a 2 buss chain, and I compress in small stages.

I use the SSL buss comp with a slow attack and a faster release taking off about 3 db.

I boost a little 12k with a Pultec.

Then I use the vintage warmer with about 3-4 db of drive, and compress about 2 db with the knee.

Then I use the L3 and take off about 1-2db.

Finally I use Ozone, and maybe compress 1db. I will push the exciter maybe 1 db in the highs. Once I get to Ozone, the track is already loud.

Of course, when I am mixing, my kick is peaking at around -7. How about you guys?

[ShaneFontane]

Originally Posted by eddu

Prec. Limiter is known to be better for not so dramatic volume changes, better for moderate pop, jazz, ballads, etc. But hey, if its sounds good to you..

can you better explain this to me? I'm confused why its better for this genre of music? also, dance music is a pretty consistent dynamic... it pretty much stays pumping al the way through the mix except the break down... so, then wouldn't this limiter be fine based on what you commented? please explain further if you can, i am still a bit confused why the PL may not be as effective as others.

I use my limiter to keep my levels hot without red lining the master bus... my mixes are usually quite hot before they hit the limiter so i'm only using a few db of limiting... am i missing something here?

[Luko]

Originally Posted by XHipHop

I also like the LM-662 for dance music. ESPECIALLY for how you can shape the kick with it when it's on a bus.

sorry that didnt make alot of sense to me , can you elaborate for the mentally impaired like me

do you mean when your feeding it just a kick it can sort of work as a transient designer, attack / release? or am I way off here

[eddu]

Originally Posted by ShaneFontane

can you better explain this to me? I'm confused why its better for this genre of music? also, dance music is a pretty consistent dynamic... it pretty much stays pumping al the way through the mix except the break down... so, then wouldn't this limiter be fine based on what you commented? please explain further if you can, i am still a bit confused why the PL may not be as effective as others.

I use my limiter to keep my levels hot without red lining the master bus... my mixes are usually quite hot before they hit the limiter so i'm only using a few db of limiting... am i missing something here?

Sorry i cant explain more about this, but its something i´ve read at different posts in the UA Forums, KVR and i think here as well. As i dont own PrecLim i just cant comment with solid arguments, sorry.

Of course, when I am mixing, my kick is peaking at around -7. How about you guys?

You mean with full music on the master buss you read -7? Mmm..i try to peak at -3 or higher with all the music background at the same time. Doesn´t it make sense to peak as high as possible to achieve better dynamic range? Then if you need more headroom during the mastering you can always low down the WAV´s gain.

Is this wrong?

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by Methlab

I have a 2 buss chain, and I compress in small stages.

I use the SSL buss comp with a slow attack and a faster release taking off about 3 db.

I boost a little 12k with a Pultec.

Then I use the vintage warmer with about 3-4 db of drive, and compress about 2 db with the knee.

Then I use the L3 and take off about 1-2db.

Finally I use Ozone, and maybe compress 1db. I will push the exciter maybe 1 db in the highs. Once I get to Ozone, the track is already loud.

Of course, when I am mixing, my kick is peaking at around -7. How about you guys?

I've only had some success with the SSL. It seems a bit a slow for dance stuff, sucks up the energy, altho when it works its really nice.

I find the Sonalksis to be a bit more consistent.

I'm liking the sony stuff a lot for louder levels, especially bass and using the warmth control of the dynamics plug or the inflator on the whole mix. Sure wish I didn't have to import to pro tools to use these, maybe 7.3 will have a better work flow.

I'm going to start experimenting with pultec on 2 buss as well, had some good mixes doing that.

Not a big fan of VW, kinda wish I hadn't bought that now, always seems a bit harsh too dirty and not in a good way.

Tried the Nomad stuff last nite a little more and really like what I hear so going to spend a bit more time on those.

I think I'd rather get my loudness from a compressor doing something musical/pumpy than a straight up limiter nowaday which just seem to flatten with no benifits (other than being loud)


As far as kick level I'm pretty much shooting for the kick and snare to be at 0db when the mix is done. Sometimes the track calls for a
kick lower in volume but nothing less than -6. RMS levels for the mix are around -11 to -8.



Jesse

[eddu]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

I think I'd rather get my loudness from a compressor doing something musical/pumpy than a straight up limiter nowaday which just seem to flatten with no benifits (other than being loud)

Jesse

So you mean the fastest attack to compress the kick/snare with a tempo-synced release?

Isn´t sidechaining during the mix more effective if you want to do pumping?

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by eddu

So you mean the fastest attack to compress the kick/snare with a tempo-synced release?

Isn´t sidechaining during the mix more effective if you want to do pumping?

Not always fastest, depends on how much transients u want retained, compare ot how snappy you want it. More important to proper pumping is the release, generally sub 100ms settings for me.

Sidechaining can be useful too but its generally when you dont want everything triggering the comp at once (generally just the kick). So I think you get a bit less complex action from sidechaining than running the whole mix through the key circuit.

[eddu]

Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens

Not always fastest, depends on how much transients u want retained, compare ot how snappy you want it. More important to proper pumping is the release, generally sub 100ms settings for me.

But if you let the transient go you´ll have clipping, then you need to stack a limiter, which is what you wanted to avoid. Am i missing something?

EDIT: Uh i see...you want a limiter but you dont want to drag the threshold too low, then you get RMS with the compressor.

[Jesse Skeens]

Originally Posted by eddu

But if you let the transient go you´ll have clipping, then you need to stack a limiter, which is what you wanted to avoid. Am i missing something?

EDIT: Uh i see...you want a limiter but you dont want to drag the threshold too low, then you get RMS with the compressor.

Ya you're doing the bulk of the loudness with the compressor and just using the limiter for peaks, or sometimes I'll just let it clip the DAW.

[Belaya]

I sometimes put a multicompressor(i like waves C4) on the kick and it works very well. I would also agree that ssl isn't the best comp for electronic music, but if used sparingly, it can be very useful to glue things together a little bit...I also like Kjaerhus(gco and unipressor ) and ozone's limiter...

[Methlab]

Cool info guys. Ill try out that Nomad Factory limiter if I can. I use the SSL, I have release set very fast though...I sub it with the Rencomp too.

So it sounds like your 2 buss chains are simpler...a compressor then a limiter?

That's cool that your mixes are so hot in the DAW..I need to try that out...it's not a technique I utilize that much in rock mixes..but electronic is different.