Vst´s for Industrial Music

[Reznik]

high,
during the last months i kinda drifted away from that clean plastic ebm sound, more to oldschool industrial..
the problem with vst is, those somehow lack of punch, violence and dirt..
my bassline is covered very good by a muon tau, so im looking for good vst lead synths to achieve such sound.

any suggestions?
thx in advance.

[theoryinmotion]

My guess is that almost any good VST.... trilogy, Octopus, ZT3A, Albino can make a good industrial lead....if you add some distortion.

Check out the IZotope Trash 1.09 VST distortion vst.

[cosmos]

mmmm ... vst for lead's ... i used to use Junglist, DSP Discovery & pro53 as my main leads in most of my tracks, i think you could get good results with most of vst's, distortion can add some punch, depends on the sound ...

i know exeactly what you mean, thats the reason i drooped all vst's and moved to hardware synth's but that dosent mean that you cant do anything with vst's, alot of industrial tracks ( in trance scene ) use vst these days and get exellent results, some vst's are better then others ... it took me a year to get a good bassline with steinberg's VB ... but at the end i think you can do anything with vst's, i just dont like them much ...

anyway, check out these 2, they might be old, i dident work with vst for some time now ...

http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=show&id=155 - i think they tried to emulate nord lead here ...

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/421.html

surf alittle here : http://www.kvraudio.com/ - you can get alot of good info and samples of what you looking for.

[maim9]

Vanguard from ReFX is very good for leads. Also check out Superwave P8, perhaps not as good as the Vanguard for leads, but very versatile with good filters.

The demo I've heard from DiscoDSP did not impress me at all, but I guess you could get some decent sounds from that too. Synth1 is also one that's often brought up, but it comes with a) 100% completely totally beyond reason USELESS presets, and b) an interface so exceptionally ugly that it's seriously hard to make your own presets without loosing sleep, appetite and creativity. Could be good, but I'll never know. And I don't want to..

Albino from Linplug is also supposed to be good. VStation from Novation _is_ good. Very nice emulation of their K-station. If you're only going to buy _one_, I'd go for the Vanguard, since you're looking for leads.

[Tibbon]

I haven't found THAT many plugins that really do it for me for industrial. It's not that they are software or anything, but most of them are made for fairly 'normal' sounds, just as 98% of keyboards don't do it for me for industrial. Some of the Native Instruments stuff hits it on the head pretty well. I think that the Moog emulations are utter crap compared to a real Moog (like the difference between a DX-7 bass sample and a real P-bass). Max/MSP/Csound routed into a VST could do the trick if you are creative on the programming.

[blakeq]

Give the Waldorf PPG plugin a try, they recently re-released it with a filter plugin and the Attack rack synth for $80.

[Stevil]

for a true 'industrial' sound go pull some metal out of the dumpster & run it thru some guitar pedals. waldorf & access virus are popular with the metropolis band set. if yer aiming for wax trax era you really need to get under the hood & start programming your own sounds, also that era was alot of lower bitrate to analog outboard gear. full digital vst are typically too clean, digital distortions are also going to be very steril sounding.

i saw cevin key hanging @ the NI booth @ namm a couple years back so i'd take that as an endorsement if you like sound of the recent Skinny Puppy albums.
there are some sonic decimator & glitch friendly programs out there but if you really want that warm grit you need to wire up some outboard gear & tweak some knobs.

edit:
probably the biggest thing missing now from that era is the layering of different styles of synthesis. FM, LA, Vector, Analog, Modular, multiple bitrates of Sampling all create a more lush combination of texture than everything coming from the same digital engine.

[pr0gr4m]

Drums are important. For that, I like MicroTonic or samplers. I also use loops and real drums with some crafty processing on them
Basses can come from any old vst synths. Add some filter/disto to them and voila. But for some really odd/industrial sounding basses check out Rob Papen's BLUE.
For industrial music I prefer sampled heavy guitars to actual heavy guitar. It makes it easy to chop them up and play them with a industrial feel.

Then there's the noise. That's samplers all the way. Synths can work well for that, but I like taking a normal sound and mangling it to something totally unrecognizable.

[disrupt_the_imc]

Vst's suckass if you ask me, maybe Spectrasonics stuff and Absynth, but that's about it. Nothing beats a good old Nord Lead & a Access Virus. Although for drums it's hard to beat Stylus RMX.

[robd]

I like microtonic for drums. It manages to achieve a very good balance of simplicity and verstility.

[Coil]

try the ms20 from the korg legacy collection

[Tibbon]

I checked out Microtonic, and yea... that's pretty cool.
I also myself have liberally used Izotope's Trash, and i think it's one of the coolest distortions out there just for how wide a range of things it can mess up.

[horseface]

Industrial isn't a sound. It's not distortion. It's not a million sound-alike virus based tracks. It's an attitude drawing on the Dadaist tradition.

If you're truly Industrial, really Industrial, you can make true Industrial music armed with only a ukulele and some choice stealth recordings.

[Reznik]

thx for your help and suggestions
the last weeks i tried alot new stuff.
but one thing first, for the replies saying you can make a good lead with every decent plugin out there, this is an answer i have given already a hundred times aswell, but in fact its not true.
analog synthesizers have each a very unique sound, due to the way theyre built.
but same goes for vsts, the code is always different.
so, if a vst synth has a distinctive trancy sound (like vanguard, albino and z3ta, i.e.) its hard for me to use it. i might have luck with the filters or distorting it, but...
mostly i get angry about the trancy sound.
and industrial isnt all about distortion.
i want crystal clear leads, that bring tears in the eyes of the audience.
here is what i found out.
vanguard is ok (i still use it in every track, but only for very detuned pads.)
junglist is cool (need more time)
Albino, z3ta, too trancy oscs, virus mod too virus-ish
fm 7 is the answer
trash distortion unit is very cool.
i use it as amp for my guitar now nothing else needed.

fm 7 is a great synthesizer, and fm synthesis really is the key

Originally Posted by Stevil

edit:
probably the biggest thing missing now from that era is the layering of different styles of synthesis. FM, LA, Vector, Analog, Modular, multiple bitrates of Sampling all create a more lush combination of texture than everything coming from the same digital engine.

thats it, nothing more to add.
if you listen to the new skinny puppy album, you will notice, exactly this is it, what makes the sound weak. (same goes for previous album)
great man.
now i have to figure out what i can do...
if everything runs through the same host... it kinda forces its own sound above everything. :(

Originally Posted by horseface

Industrial isn't a sound. It's not distortion. It's not a million sound-alike virus based tracks. It's an attitude drawing on the Dadaist tradition.

If you're truly Industrial, really Industrial, you can make true Industrial music armed with only a ukulele and some choice stealth recordings.

very well said

[cortisol]

If you have listened to the old school industrial stuff then it makes it easy to choose and mangle sounds to fit the feel and the sonics.

For me too it comes down to FM synthesis, detuning and distortions and verbs and delays.

The advantage of using older synths is that they tend to sound richer, more involving and have a nice contrast to the newer stuff. Korg MS20 + Alesis Micron + Korg Karma + Kontact and Absynth here!

I get nice results by using different soundcards and a desk with an inbuilt Lex chip for verb + FX. I think having all these pathways into the computer makes for a multi-dimensional soundscape + different plug-ins off course.

Peace,
cortisol

[Reznik]

i´ll go hardware soon anyway.
what do you guys think about the MS2000?
...for my purpose

[cortisol]

Hi Reznik,

the keyboard player in my band has an MS2000. So I have heard it side by side with my synths. It sounds full and involving compared to my Micron which sounds more glassy, hifi and mid compressed.

The MS2000 has a sort of step sequencer on the front for sequencing quick changes in filtering and sample and hold type processing. I really liked it very much and think it would compliment softsynths by adding full analogue sounding synthlines and texture.

I want one for myself but thenagain when ever I hear something that sounds that good you'll hear me saying the same!

I've got a long list of stuff to get but it is a matter of priorities. So in that light I still feel that the MS2000 would be a good priority investment for you. My Micron is far cleaner and more Trance in sound. I find I'm having to rebalance the sound of the micron with multi band compression and distortion and tape compression plug-ins to transform the sounds to the grainy sonics of industrial. Or I'm adding FM andseeing what the noise generator will do and then through the desk and onto the eq and the reverb/delay/chorus.

Peace,
cortisol

[XHipHop]

Has anyone tried this?

http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/industrialtones/

[Reznik]

Originally Posted by cortisol

Hi Reznik,

the keyboard player in my band has an MS2000. So I have heard it side by side with my synths. It sounds full and involving compared to my Micron which sounds more glassy, hifi and mid compressed.

The MS2000 has a sort of step sequencer on the front for sequencing quick changes in filtering and sample and hold type processing. I really liked it very much and think it would compliment softsynths by adding full analogue sounding synthlines and texture.

I want one for myself but thenagain when ever I hear something that sounds that good you'll hear me saying the same!

I've got a long list of stuff to get but it is a matter of priorities. So in that light I still feel that the MS2000 would be a good priority investment for you. My Micron is far cleaner and more Trance in sound. I find I'm having to rebalance the sound of the micron with multi band compression and distortion and tape compression plug-ins to transform the sounds to the grainy sonics of industrial. Or I'm adding FM andseeing what the noise generator will do and then through the desk and onto the eq and the reverb/delay/chorus.

Peace,
cortisol

, im really looking forward playing with that stepsequencer
its not such a common feature on hardware synths, is it?
and the vocoder is great aswell, right?
did some research on that synth yesterday, heard some demos..friend of mine who produces industrial and psytrance with it recommended it to me, though he lives pretty far away he knows my sound, so i think its kinda my thing
theres one at ebay right now, need some luck :D
thx for your help dude!

Originally Posted by XHipHop

Has anyone tried this?

http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/industrialtones/

gonna check it out :O
although this sounds way too coca cola, maybe it has some nice noise, who noes?

[pr0gr4m]

The MS2000 is really cool...but you have to get past the presets. A lot of the sounds have that rave/trance quality that you don't want, but it can do some really wild stuff too. Being a VA synth, it sounds like a VA, but it has a grit and bite to it that I love.

With all the controls on it, the MS begs you to create new and exciting sounds, and if you don't...shame on you.
The patching capabilities on it are somewhat like a modular and you can do lots of cool stuff with it.

The sequencer is cool although we don't use it too much...have other sequencers for that. But it can be used to do more things than just sequence notes. When/if you get it, spend time with it. Go through the manual...you'll be poundin' out the music in no time.

[Stevil]

what do you guys think about the MS2000?

i have the ms2000r as well as a microKorg which has a simlar sound engine.
i like both. they layer well with my older synths. i love the aux in feature which allows me to run other sounds thru the ms2000 as a filter. the feedbackloop is a nice feature as well for glitchy screeches.

if everything runs through the same host... it kinda forces its own sound above everything. :(

i'd say "if everything is generated from the same host, it forces it's sound..."

if you are interested in layering multiple types of synthisis dig around on
sonicstate.com & vintagesynth.com to see whats out there.
now is a good time to pick up some older types of synthesis since people are replacing their studios with plugins & obsessing over analog.

[CYCLER]

Considering that the main idea was VSTi.. I'd sugest something that can do FM between the oscillators, that way you're guaranteed to get some nice dirt (Wasp VSTi works fine for me, at least)

[Reznik]

Originally Posted by pr0gr4m

The MS2000 is really cool...but you have to get past the presets. A lot of the sounds have that rave/trance quality that you don't want, but it can do some really wild stuff too. Being a VA synth, it sounds like a VA, but it has a grit and bite to it that I love.

With all the controls on it, the MS begs you to create new and exciting sounds, and if you don't...shame on you.
The patching capabilities on it are somewhat like a modular and you can do lots of cool stuff with it.

haha, sure, i wont buy this synth for preset hopping

[XHipHop]

I think almost any synth works if you run it through good filters and distortion, actually.