dub production techniques/gear

[robd]

I just thought it would be cool to have a general thread devoted to discussing dub production. Apologies to the purists who say that you should only use the kind of gear they had in kingston in the '70s, but I think it would be great to discuss any dublike styles and any gear and techniques that can be used to make good dub. I am especially interested in gear that is still in production, as that is a lot more practical for a lot of us than someone saying "for that sound, you need to find X piece of uncommon and hard to maintain gear that hasn't been produced since before you were born. "


First, to kick of the thread, a cute dub snare trick: In addition to the classic trick of putting a tshirt or something over the head of the snare to damp it a little, you can try this. loosen the snares some and wrap some kind of cloth around them. Experiment with different kinds of cloth. (towel, tshirt, etc.) loosen the snares to the point where, when the drummer smacks the snare, the snares bounce back off the bottom, and then snap back, quickly damping the back of the drum.

Second, a question: Does anyone know of any good spring reverb units that are currently in production (meaning that I could order a new one right now, or anytime I happened to have the money, with a minimum of hassle)?

Also, though I just posted it on another thread, the dub scrolls is a really great resource for this kind of stuff, so I'll post tthe link again here.
http://www.interruptor.ch/dub.shtml

[zarembo]

hey Rob, thanks for the link to the scrolls--

you know I was checking out the Mad Prof site for ariwa--- http://ariwa.com/ and while his gear list is long, there's nothing boutique or secret about it (unless he's not giving it all up!)

the Roland sde-3000 is an interesting piece which he lists several of, and I've been able to get those sheets of cascading delays from it a time or two.

Robbie Shakespeare once said somewhere he likes to add the bass last in any production---done in the control room facing away from the speakers (big ones) turned up very loud. he gets the most amazing pocket, wouldn't you say?

happy new year in dub!

[worm]

this looks quite interesting:

http://www.paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=6740K&cat=27

wonder how it sounds

[robd]

Thanks for the link. that Paia kit looks sweet. you'd have to build your own cae for it and the powersupply, but that would be pretty easy. Unfortunately, that page says that they're out of stock.

[JSt0rm]

http://www.vermona.com/en/produkte/r...retroverb.html

haven't heard it but it looks pretty cool. alternatly you could build a effects only modular with analog delays, freq mods and spring reverbs with a couple mod sources

modcan has a good selection of effects modules. www.modcan.com

[Samc]

I checked out that site that robd posted and while I understand what they're trying to do, I am not really impressed with the quality of info there.

I'm a little pressed for time at the moment, but later today I would like to come back and give some of the first hand info I have on this topic.

[robd]

That vermona looks like exactly the kind of thing i'm looking for. Novamusik says that they have a new version with an all tube signal path, too. Usually that would sound like hype, but those east germans do have a reputation for knowing how to use vacuum tubes, so who knows.

I would say that that site has a few really good tricks on it, but you have to filter through a lot of stuff that is either obvious or not that useful. I'm looking forward to samc's comments, as that's why I started the thread here instead of over at the dubscrolls. There is a great community here and a lot of people who really know their shit.

[grahluk]

If you are looking for a NEW tube/spring reverb just get one of the Fender Reverb reissues. Still in production quite common and they sound fantastic. Only thing necessary would be to interface it to impedance and balance match it to mix equipment. No problem if you are used to re amping. If you are industrious you can also build the Fender Reverb from scratch or kit. There are many tube amp parts suppliers that have the chassis and transformers. You could skip the amp style chassis if you want and build it into a 2 space rack (3 or 4 with tank). You could also buy some Jensen transformers and make it balanced line level as well. Easiest option would be to find a Fender reissue on Ebay or somewhere then get some Radial re amp boxes and you're set.

The Roland SDE3000 is not a legendary dub weapon like the biphase or space echo but as mentioned Mad Professor has made liberal use of them. I also helped Dub Syndicate locate a couple for a tour in th early mid 90's. That was one item they wanted no substitutes for.

[Nordenstam]

Your local scrap yards or second hand stores may sometimes get a broken old organ. These often have a spring tank unit that can be salvaged and used with a beefy preamp like a headphone amplifier.

[robd]

do you think the sde-3000 is enough better than plugins that it would be worth getting? I just checked yahoo auctions here in japan, and there are plenty of sde-3000s and 2500s going really cheap. OTOH, I donn't have a whole lot of space here, and, from looking at the front panel, the interface looks pretty klugey. I really can't stand that 80s interface style. They also look too deep to fit in my racks easily. If they are that great, though, I ought to pick up a couple, cause they seem to be going for about 50bucks a pop.

[zarembo]

they sure sound nice. the 3000's depth is about 13" so yes it's pretty deep...
but so are the levels of craziness you can access with that annoying front panel.

for live stuff I kind of love the 2500 because it has actual knobs

[lozion]

Originally Posted by grahluk

The Roland SDE3000 is not a legendary dub weapon like the biphase or space echo but as mentioned Mad Professor has made liberal use of them. I also helped Dub Syndicate locate a couple for a tour in th early mid 90's. That was one item they wanted no substitutes for.

Yep, this is probably because the SDE-3000 has one little feature that is great for dub:
FX loop. Here is a trick I use to do for dub mixes, insert a MXR headphone amp or Microamp in the fx loop of the sde and set your feedback to about 60 then use the pedal's gain knob to re-inject the signal at the input... The feedback loop gets saturated as you color it with the Mxr... Nasty!

[grahluk]

Originally Posted by robd

do you think the sde-3000 is enough better than plugins that it would be worth getting? I just checked yahoo auctions here in japan, and there are plenty of sde-3000s and 2500s going really cheap. OTOH, I donn't have a whole lot of space here, and, from looking at the front panel, the interface looks pretty klugey. I really can't stand that 80s interface style. They also look too deep to fit in my racks easily. If they are that great, though, I ought to pick up a couple, cause they seem to be going for about 50bucks a pop.

I wouldn't go crazy just to have the sde-3000. It's useful but there's so much out there (or ITB) that will get you where you want to go and beyond. If space concerns and a distasteful interface are turning you off skip it it's not essential. If we were talking about a Mutron Biphase it might be worth cramming some extra space for it. Then again there are other options (not replacements) there too.

[pan]

Lozion - That's the stuff I wanna read more about!

Nice one!

Is the trick about compressing the send (FX-loop) by overdriving the mxr???

So filtering, mangling, morphing the send is what its about?

Does anyone want to share a crazy delay setup?

My basic setup is controlling a single or stereo-delay's feedback via the Aux-send -
the delay returns on a normal, not FX-return..., channel to be able to feed an EQed loop and have more control over this channel.

How do you control the feedbacked delay channel or send?
They sometimes just "explode" under my fingers when just feeding from the channels Aux-send and it's too much ... I propably need a tube-tapedelay?
Or should I just compress the delay-channels?

just being more carful with my fingers also helps, btw

[pan]

Originally Posted by zarembo

Robbie Shakespeare once said somewhere he likes to add the bass last in any production---done in the control room facing away from the speakers (big ones) turned up very loud. he gets the most amazing pocket, wouldn't you say?

And I love this one from DubScrolls:

Make sure the sound stays crisp: keep bass and drums dominant; Don't open all aux sends at once.

[lozion]

No, in fact the send is clean.
Whats the key here is using the gain control of the MXR, set to about 10 o'clock to re-inject the signal to the SDE's loop input.

Re-injection in Dub is essential. The way Tubby, Perry et al did it was by using an aux send then its return fed to the same send... I'm sure you know what I mean...

My technique is a little different in the sense that I'm not re-feeding from the delay return in the board but rather from its internal FX loop and gauging the saturation with the pedal... You with me? You can't do this if your delay doesnt have an fx loop and that was the strenght of the SDE series...

Now take it a step further and split the output, one end going back to the board and the other to your favorite phaser set to slow and mix both signal according to taste.
In dub we trust,

Originally Posted by pan

Lozion - That's the stuff I wanna read more about!

Nice one!

Is the trick about compressing the send (FX-loop) by overdriving the mxr???

So filtering, mangling, morphing the send is what its about?

Does anyone want to share a crazy delay setup?

My basic setup is controlling a single or stereo-delay's feedback via the Aux-send -
the delay returns on a normal, not FX-return..., channel to be able to feed an EQed loop and have more control over this channel.

How do you control the feedbacked delay channel or send?
They sometimes just "explode" under my fingers when just feeding from the channels Aux-send and it's too much ... I propably need a tube-tapedelay?
Or should I just compress the delay-channels?

just being more carful with my fingers also helps, btw

[lozion]

Second, a question: Does anyone know of any good spring reverb units that are currently in production (meaning that I could order a new one right now, or anytime I happened to have the money, with a minimum of hassle)?

If you can find a Furman RV1 (or RV2-stereo), go for it, I paid mine 100$
and it rocks, has 3 band eq and limiter at the input... Dont let the Furman name stop you. You can smash it for Tubby style thunder again and again!
Really cool for snares...

[pan]

Originally Posted by lozion

No, in fact the send is clean....
In dub we trust,