RE-CREATING cymbals by hand-hammering

Johan VDS · 7th September 2006, 02:11 PM

Hi !
My name is Johan and I'm from Belgium.

I'm a drummer and I've always loved to play dark, rich sounding cymbals.

But at some point in the past I got a bit fed up with the kind of so called "dark" cymbals that were available in the shops. The modern Zildjian K's (not being hammered by hand anymore) lacked the darkness and complexity I was after. To me most sounded too one-directional and sterile. Even the new generation of Turkish cymbals (at that time being the Istanbul Mehmet Agops), although being handhammered, weren't quite what I wanted.

So I decided to rehammer cymbals to get the sound I wanted. After quite a bit of trial and error I started to understand the bronze, feel the correlation between shape-thickness-tension and gradually achieved the ability to guide the sound through strategical hand-hammering and lathing.

I've been doing this for 20 years now and lately people from all over te world have been sending me cymbals for modification, or let's say for a total re-creation into a totally different type of cymbal with a more complex or rich sound than can be expected from factory cymbals. Factory cymbals for me are basically "blanks".

Apart from light, dark or complex jazzcymbals I also create heavy cymbals with a complex and rich sound.

The cymbals I've hammered can be seen and heard HERE.

Some "before and after modification" files can be heard HERE.

Also check out some of the amateur cymbals I converted into professional cymbals HERE.

This is a Tony Williams-like 22" Complex Dark 22" ride I hammered from a Paiste Signature Power Ride. SOUNDFILE

A 20" Light Complex Dry Jazz ride made from a Zildjian Avedis Medium ride.
SOUNDFILE

A 17" Dark Thin Crispy Crash hammered from a Ufip Class. SOUNDFILE

A light 20" Deep TrashyFlatride made from a heavy Zildjian Avedis flatride. SOUNDFILE

An 18" Perforation Trash made from a Sabian AAX crash. SOUNDFILE.

This was a Zildjian ZBT 20" ride, now a light (professional !) very complex jazzride. A before and after SOUNDFILE

A 16" Reverse China hammered from a Paiste Dimensions crash. SOUNDFILE

A before and after pic and SOUNDFILE of a Paiste Traditional, made lighter, more jazzy and washy.

An 18" Ripple Trash, hammered from a Ufip ride. This unique cymbal has a very special SOUND and can be used as an alternatieve china, but also as a ride and crash:

Finally a "before and after" pic and SOUNDFILE of a cheap 16" Headliner B8 alloy crash cymbal, now a professional dark thin crash:

**toolskid** · 7th September 2006, 02:17 PM

I've personally had some work done by Johan!!! UNBELIEVEABLE!! RUSH TO THIS GUY!!!! Couldnt be nicer to work with either!! A very interesting service and PARTICULARLY useful to those with house kits who want custom cymbals!!!!!!!

digitalM · 7th September 2006, 10:38 PM

Wow! That looks really cool! Some of them look like UFO's from another galaxy!

Johan VDS · 16th September 2006, 11:28 AM

Finished some hihats:

14" Complex Hihats 887-974gr-from Zildjian Avedis

SOUNDFILE

14" Dark Heavy Hihats -from Paiste 2002

SOUNDFILE

C/G · 19th September 2006, 05:55 PM

Too bad your in Belgium.

**toolskid** · 22nd September 2006, 08:51 AM

Here are some hats Johan just did for me!! There were originally a pair of 10" SR hats. He also suggested making a 'whisper' top for them (hence the 'light-hats' file!!!)

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!

Johan VDS · 24th September 2006, 08:37 PM

Here's a 7" bell cymbal I hammered from a flat B20 bronze alloy disc. (I've also shaped the cup by cold-hammering.)
It's shape is similar to that of a china, so it's perfect for reversed mounting (cup facing down) on top of another cymbal.

It kinda screams, so I called it the Yell Bell.

SOUNDFILE

Johan VDS · 27th September 2006, 01:15 PM

Here's a 20" Light Complex Full Bell Ride I hammered from a Sabian AA Medium ride.

This one is rather a special hammering concept because the bell has a deeper and fuller sound than you would expect from a cymbal this thin and high pitched.

SOUNDFILE

Johan VDS · 30th September 2006, 03:56 PM

And a 20" Light Ride 1830 grams I hammered from a Zildjian Avedis Medium ride.

SOUNDFILE

Johan VDS · 5th October 2006, 09:23 AM

20" Light Complex Ride 1830 grams, hammered from a Ufip Class ride.

SOUNDFILE

orange · 5th October 2006, 10:00 AM

Johan,

they look great.

Does this mean that you can even turn a terrible cheapy cymbal into something decent. I've loads of old junk cymbals around ?

I would have thought that the metal used would have been important too ?

**toolskid** · 5th October 2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange

Johan,

they look great.

Does this mean that you can even turn a terrible cheapy cymbal into something decent. I've loads of old junk cymbals around ?

I would have thought that the metal used would have been important too ?

The different alloys used for various grades of cymbals all have different properties and Johan really knows how to bring the best out of all of them! Hopefully he'll be able to post a better reply than me!! :D

Johan VDS · 7th October 2006, 03:28 PM

A 7" Splash, hammered from a flat B20 bronze alloy disc.

SOUNDFILE

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange

Does this mean that you can even turn a terrible cheapy cymbal into something decent. I would have thought that the metal used would have been important too ?

The alloy is very important, not the grade of the cymbal line. Like all cheap cymbals from B8 alloy can be hammered into professional cymbals.
Not brass cymbals, most brass has no sound potential.

The criterium to decide if hammering makes sense is the volume and sustain of the original cymbal. Disregard the quality of sound. If it sounds dead and muffled like many used brass (or sometimes also nickelsilver) cymbals do, forget it.

Some alloys have an inherent character which may be impossible to remove completely, like the typical trashiness of chinese B20 alloy as found in Stagg or Wuhan cymbals. Getting a really mellow tone from these is rarely possible. But they can be greatly improved.

Johan VDS · 10th October 2006, 08:49 PM

22" Dark Ride 2595 grams, re-created from a Paiste 3000 ride.

SOUNDFILE

Johan VDS · 19th October 2006, 09:21 AM

18" Dry Reverse China, hammered from a Paiste 2002 18" Crash

SOUNDFILE

cajonezzz · 19th October 2006, 05:45 PM

Johan-- I've been trying to get my *hit together to get some cymbals out to you-

I'm thinking of sending an old Paiste Color Sound. It's ridiculously thick and "pingy" . You think there is any hope for it- ever worked on one of those?

I'm going to send 3 cymbals at once btw ( one is a friends )

awesome work man.

Johan VDS · 24th October 2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

I'm thinking of sending an old Paiste Color Sound. It's ridiculously thick and "pingy" . You think there is any hope for it- ever worked on one of those?

Sure, I'll transform it into a totally different cymbal if you want.
Just MAIL me if you want to go for it.

Here are 2 turkish cymbals I just re-created for a Belgian jazzdrummer. Each time you can hear a before and after clip.

- Bosphorus Ferit Turk 20" ride:

http://jvds.byethost15.com/3_BEFORE_..._and_after.mp3

- Agop Mel Lewis 21". This one had a very bad "barking seal" (a hollow gongy sound) stretching from the cup to halfway down the bow. That's completely gone now.

http://jvds.byethost15.com/3_BEFORE_..._and_after.mp3

Johan VDS · 25th October 2006, 02:40 PM

Here's a set of cheap Sabian B8's which I just finished hammering for an Italian drummer into a set of (more or less) pop/rock oriented cymbals.

"Before and after" clips and pics here:
http://jvds.byethost15.com/3_BEFORE_..._complete_set/

Johan VDS · 28th October 2006, 02:25 PM

20" Light Jazzride 1850 grams, hammered from a Zildjian Avedis.

SOUNDFILE

Johan VDS · 14th November 2006, 06:55 PM

16" Brash Crash, hammered from a Zildjian Avedis 16" Medium Crash.

SOUNDFILE

Berolzheimer · 14th November 2006, 11:03 PM

Nice work Johan! Your cymbals look & sound beautiful. How much do you charge and how long does it typically take? I have a few cymbals I'd love to have improved.

Oops, sorry, I just saw those links on your posts. Very reasonable.

Johan VDS · 19th November 2006, 03:48 PM

20" Complex Flatride (2205 grams) hammered from a Zildjian Avedis.

SOUNDFILE

max cooper · 19th November 2006, 07:48 PM

I love stuff like this.

So, this is creating more harmonics and overtones by making a more complex shape?

the russian · 19th November 2006, 07:51 PM

This is amazing. I'll be contacting Johan very soon.

Johan VDS · 21st November 2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max cooper

So, this is creating more harmonics and overtones by making a more complex shape?

Yes, but shape is only one aspect. There's also tension and the way it's distributed over the surface, thickness, taper, hammering depth... many things together create a certain sound.

Johan VDS · 28th November 2006, 08:32 PM

Here's a 17" Perforation Trash which I made from a Zildjian Z Custom Crash.

The SOUNDFILE is a little distorted because of the very loud peak of the crash sound... Still this cymbal can speak very softly too and opens up at the slightest touch. It has a very wide dynamic range and can produce anything from a very quiet warm trashy wash to a fierce oriental crash. It's also very ride-able.

Tommylicious · 28th November 2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan VDS

It's also very ride-able.

mmm.. Lovely!

Serious; have to pass this to my drummer, this is some cool stuff!

firby · 1st December 2006, 06:31 PM

Beautiful stuff.

Johan VDS · 3rd December 2006, 01:22 PM

20" Complex Ride 2215 grams -from Sabian AA

SOUNDFILE

Jax · 4th December 2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan VDS

Here's a 17" Perforation Trash which I made from a Zildjian Z Custom Crash.

The SOUNDFILE is a little distorted because of the very loud peak of the crash sound... Still this cymbal can speak very softly too and opens up at the slightest touch. It has a very wide dynamic range and can produce anything from a very quiet warm trashy wash to a fierce oriental crash. It's also very ride-able.

I must do this to my Z Custom 18" crash! I currently disdain ever having bought this cymbal. If it can be transformed into something like that sample, it's as good as DONE!

7th September 2006, 02:11 PM	#1
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	RE-CREATING cymbals by hand-hammering Hi ! My name is Johan and I'm from Belgium. I'm a drummer and I've always loved to play dark, rich sounding cymbals. But at some point in the past I got a bit fed up with the kind of so called "dark" cymbals that were available in the shops. The modern Zildjian K's (not being hammered by hand anymore) lacked the darkness and complexity I was after. To me most sounded too one-directional and sterile. Even the new generation of Turkish cymbals (at that time being the Istanbul Mehmet Agops), although being handhammered, weren't quite what I wanted. So I decided to rehammer cymbals to get the sound I wanted. After quite a bit of trial and error I started to understand the bronze, feel the correlation between shape-thickness-tension and gradually achieved the ability to guide the sound through strategical hand-hammering and lathing. I've been doing this for 20 years now and lately people from all over te world have been sending me cymbals for modification, or let's say for a total re-creation into a totally different type of cymbal with a more complex or rich sound than can be expected from factory cymbals. Factory cymbals for me are basically "blanks". Apart from light, dark or complex jazzcymbals I also create heavy cymbals with a complex and rich sound. The cymbals I've hammered can be seen and heard HERE. Some "before and after modification" files can be heard HERE. Also check out some of the amateur cymbals I converted into professional cymbals HERE. This is a Tony Williams-like 22" Complex Dark 22" ride I hammered from a Paiste Signature Power Ride. SOUNDFILE A 20" Light Complex Dry Jazz ride made from a Zildjian Avedis Medium ride. SOUNDFILE A 17" Dark Thin Crispy Crash hammered from a Ufip Class. SOUNDFILE A light 20" Deep TrashyFlatride made from a heavy Zildjian Avedis flatride. SOUNDFILE An 18" Perforation Trash made from a Sabian AAX crash. SOUNDFILE. This was a Zildjian ZBT 20" ride, now a light (professional !) very complex jazzride. A before and after SOUNDFILE A 16" Reverse China hammered from a Paiste Dimensions crash. SOUNDFILE A before and after pic and SOUNDFILE of a Paiste Traditional, made lighter, more jazzy and washy. An 18" Ripple Trash, hammered from a Ufip ride. This unique cymbal has a very special SOUND and can be used as an alternatieve china, but also as a ride and crash: Finally a "before and after" pic and SOUNDFILE of a cheap 16" Headliner B8 alloy crash cymbal, now a professional dark thin crash: __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

7th September 2006, 02:17 PM	#2
toolskid Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: london Posts: 2,113	I've personally had some work done by Johan!!! UNBELIEVEABLE!! RUSH TO THIS GUY!!!! Couldnt be nicer to work with either!! A very interesting service and PARTICULARLY useful to those with house kits who want custom cymbals!!!!!!! __________________ Emre Ramazanoglu http://www.emremusic.com the wise man can pick up a grain of sand and envision the whole universe. The fool, however, will just lie down on some seaweed and roll around until he's completely draped in it. Then he'll stand up and go "Hey, I'm vine man"

16th September 2006, 11:28 AM	#4
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	Finished some hihats: 14" Complex Hihats 887-974gr-from Zildjian Avedis SOUNDFILE 14" Dark Heavy Hihats -from Paiste 2002 SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

19th September 2006, 05:55 PM	#5
C/G Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,805	Too bad your in Belgium. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Colin G. http://www.myspace.com/generalsandmajors

24th September 2006, 08:37 PM	#7
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	Here's a 7" bell cymbal I hammered from a flat B20 bronze alloy disc. (I've also shaped the cup by cold-hammering.) It's shape is similar to that of a china, so it's perfect for reversed mounting (cup facing down) on top of another cymbal. It kinda screams, so I called it the Yell Bell. SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

7th September 2006, 10:38 PM	#3
digitalM Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 143	Wow! That looks really cool! Some of them look like UFO's from another galaxy!

27th September 2006, 01:15 PM	#8
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	Here's a 20" Light Complex Full Bell Ride I hammered from a Sabian AA Medium ride. This one is rather a special hammering concept because the bell has a deeper and fuller sound than you would expect from a cymbal this thin and high pitched. SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

30th September 2006, 03:56 PM	#9
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	And a 20" Light Ride 1830 grams I hammered from a Zildjian Avedis Medium ride. SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

5th October 2006, 09:23 AM	#10
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	20" Light Complex Ride 1830 grams, hammered from a Ufip Class ride. SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

5th October 2006, 10:00 AM	#11
orange Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London Posts: 1,653	Johan, they look great. Does this mean that you can even turn a terrible cheapy cymbal into something decent. I've loads of old junk cymbals around ? I would have thought that the metal used would have been important too ?

10th October 2006, 08:49 PM	#14
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	22" Dark Ride 2595 grams, re-created from a Paiste 3000 ride. SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

19th October 2006, 09:21 AM	#15
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	18" Dry Reverse China, hammered from a Paiste 2002 18" Crash SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

19th October 2006, 05:45 PM	#16
cajonezzz Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Carlsbad Ca. Posts: 1,718	Johan-- I've been trying to get my *hit together to get some cymbals out to you- I'm thinking of sending an old Paiste Color Sound. It's ridiculously thick and "pingy" . You think there is any hope for it- ever worked on one of those? I'm going to send 3 cymbals at once btw ( one is a friends ) awesome work man. __________________ Craig Zarkos http://www.myspace.com/cajonezzz http://tybridroom.com/ z-orama TourstopLIVE! Calavera Proving Grounds (record & ride!) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.

25th October 2006, 02:40 PM	#18
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	Here's a set of cheap Sabian B8's which I just finished hammering for an Italian drummer into a set of (more or less) pop/rock oriented cymbals. "Before and after" clips and pics here: http://jvds.byethost15.com/3_BEFORE_..._complete_set/ __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

28th October 2006, 02:25 PM	#19
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	20" Light Jazzride 1850 grams, hammered from a Zildjian Avedis. SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

14th November 2006, 06:55 PM	#20
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	16" Brash Crash, hammered from a Zildjian Avedis 16" Medium Crash. SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

14th November 2006, 11:03 PM	#21
Berolzheimer Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: El Lay Posts: 1,902	Nice work Johan! Your cymbals look & sound beautiful. How much do you charge and how long does it typically take? I have a few cymbals I'd love to have improved. Oops, sorry, I just saw those links on your posts. Very reasonable. __________________ Purveyor of fine sounds since 1961. My very incomplete IMDB list: My very incomplete IMDB list I'm all ears. Last edited by Berolzheimer; 14th November 2006 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Temporary Blindness

19th November 2006, 03:48 PM	#22
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	20" Complex Flatride (2205 grams) hammered from a Zildjian Avedis. SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

19th November 2006, 07:48 PM	#23
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,821	I love stuff like this. So, this is creating more harmonics and overtones by making a more complex shape?

19th November 2006, 07:51 PM	#24
the russian Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: California Posts: 315	This is amazing. I'll be contacting Johan very soon. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/maliktherussian

28th November 2006, 08:32 PM	#26
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	Here's a 17" Perforation Trash which I made from a Zildjian Z Custom Crash. The SOUNDFILE is a little distorted because of the very loud peak of the crash sound... Still this cymbal can speak very softly too and opens up at the slightest touch. It has a very wide dynamic range and can produce anything from a very quiet warm trashy wash to a fierce oriental crash. It's also very ride-able. __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals

1st December 2006, 06:31 PM	#28
firby Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 697	Beautiful stuff.

3rd December 2006, 01:22 PM	#29
Johan VDS Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium, bruges Posts: 44	20" Complex Ride 2215 grams -from Sabian AA SOUNDFILE __________________ JOHAN Cymbal Re-Creation and Custom Cymbals