Kick triggering top snare skin

[gt_jumper]

Every time i mic up a kit, the top snare skin has this "poong" sound sitting in the 200hz - 300hz. I remove it in EQ and the snare loses all its girth and weight. Its there a mic placement or drum tuning technique to avoid this tone messing up the tightness of my kick (when playing the full drums stems together)

Mics are 2 sm57s

[mdoelger]

Looks like the easiest way to go here is to consider retuning.

There is probably a resonance frequency from the kick that resonates with the top snare head. Change the tuning of one of the two drums and this should go away.

How do the drums sound in the overheads? If the snare is punchy and thumby in the OH consider only micing the bottom of the snare. Or the shell of the snare from the side.

And even more important how do the drums sit in the mix? Is the poong sound even noticable?

Cheers.

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by mdoelger

Looks like the easiest way to go here is to consider retuning.

There is probably a resonance frequency from the kick that resonates with the top snare head. Change the tuning of one of the two drums and this should go away.

How do the drums sound in the overheads? If the snare is punchy and thumby in the OH consider only micing the bottom of the snare. Or the shell of the snare from the side.

And even more important how do the drums sit in the mix? Is the poong sound even noticable?

Cheers.

The snares beef all lies in the top snare mic, the bottom mic i hard/fast gate and only use it for the "snap". the overheads dont show anything of the tone in question. It sits with the snare hits beautifully, but when the kick drum is beaten, it sounds. I have tried everything, side gating, eqing, side multiband and mic placement. And its happened on nearly every drum capture i have done.

The poong sound is messing up the tightness of the kick, when i mute the top snare mic the kick punches through awesome, but as the top mic is brought back into the mix, it sucks all the punch from the kick. I realise its an artifact from the mic being so close to the skin, but the actual snare sounds awesome with it that close (about 2" from the skin on about a 40 degree angle)

[biggator6]

I'll second retuning... if not - try gating the hell out of the snare, or mute automation, or deleting sections... same result.

[mdoelger]

Originally Posted by gt_jumper

I realise its an artifact from the mic being so close to the skin, but the actual snare sounds awesome with it that close (about 2" from the skin on about a 40 degree angle)

It doesn't really mean anything if the snare sounds awesome on its own. Drums always come in context with each other. A drumkit is one instrument not 8 or something.

That being said, if the the Kick looses punch when the snare mic comes in, then my first bet would be phase issues between kick and snare. Which directly translates to no good enough mic placement.

Experiment with this more. Somewhere is the sweetspot. It's always there.

And first of all try retuning your snare/kick.

Have fun

[mdoelger]

Stupid question, (I had this). Do the kick and the bottom rim of the snare contact each other?

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by mdoelger

Stupid question, (I had this). Do the kick and the bottom rim of the snare contact each other?

Not stupid at all, it was the first thing i checked

If its a phasing issue a simple movement of the kick mic back a smidge would have solved it.

Gating/snipping messes with the cymbals, even lightly gating makes a noticable effect. the crappiest thing about this artifact is that i dont hear it in the setup tests, only when i get it onto my monitors at home.

[gt_jumper]

you guys are very helpful and i will overcome this annoying tone. Im very surprised no one themselves has came accross this yet?

[mdoelger]

How are you monititoring while setting up drum mics? Are the drums in the same room?

Because it sounds like you're kind of guessing a good mic placement.

If you are recording in the same room as your monitoring is then:

1. Bus your drumtracks to an aux
2. put a delay on that aux ( like 1 secound)

Now you have seperated the "live" hits from the recorded signal. This is much easier to find good mic placement. Only thing is, you have to listen through headphones. So you have to know them well.

Have you tried retuning your snare yet?

[mdoelger]

Originally Posted by gt_jumper

Gating/snipping messes with the cymbals, even lightly gating makes a noticable effect. the crappiest thing about this artifact is that i dont hear it in the setup tests, only when i get it onto my monitors at home.

I think gating and processing is not the way to go here. You want to make the tracking as good as possible not process it in the tracking stage already.

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by mdoelger

How are you monititoring while setting up drum mics? Are the drums in the same room?

Because it sounds like you're kind of guessing a good mic placement.

If you are recording in the same room as your monitoring is then:

1. Bus your drumtracks to an aux
2. put a delay on that aux ( like 1 secound)

Now you have seperated the "live" hits from the recorded signal. This is much easier to find good mic placement. Only thing is, you have to listen through headphones. So you have to know them well.

Have you tried retuning your snare yet?

Great tip about the delay setting, i will do that.

I know my headphones quite well but they are woofy anyway and are not that clear and open sounding like my monitors.

And its happened on every capture i have done, probably about 6 different drummers all up, and about 10 captures... I do think everyone i have recorded though have a lowish tuned snare.

[chrisso]

Most drums will resonate with each other.
I guess the trick is to tension each drum so it doesn't sound discordant (aka annoying).
I must say I tend to dampen my snare drum ever so slightly with a little gaffa. I aim to retain a little ring when the drum is played, but reduce the annoying ring when it's just resonating with other drums.
I like to go for a thuddier bass drum tone too, so my bass drum in fact is more likely to trigger tom resonance than any snare resonance.
Anyway, stay away from gating if at all possible. It's going to be a combination of slight compromise (a little tape and a little retuning) and making sure all the drums ring in a tonally pleasing way.

[mdoelger]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Most drums will resonate with each other.
I guess the trick is to tension each drum so it doesn't sound discordant (aka annoying).
I must say I tend to dampen my snare drum ever so slightly with a little gaffa. I aim to retain a little ring when the drum is played, but reduce the annoying ring when it's just resonating with other drums.
I like to go for a thuddier bass drum tone too, so my bass drum in fact is more likely to trigger tom resonance than any snare resonance.
Anyway, stay away from gating if at all possible. It's going to be a combination of slight compromise (a little tape and a little retuning) and making sure all the drums ring in a tonally pleasing way.

wise

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Most drums will resonate with each other.
I guess the trick is to tension each drum so it doesn't sound discordant (aka annoying).
I must say I tend to dampen my snare drum ever so slightly with a little gaffa. I aim to retain a little ring when the drum is played, but reduce the annoying ring when it's just resonating with other drums.
I like to go for a thuddier bass drum tone too, so my bass drum in fact is more likely to trigger tom resonance than any snare resonance.
Anyway, stay away from gating if at all possible. It's going to be a combination of slight compromise (a little tape and a little retuning) and making sure all the drums ring in a tonally pleasing way.

The first drum capture i ever done, the snare was covered in tape and it sounded horrible and lifless, after the guitars where added it didnt cut the mix and had no beef, hence i usually avoid tape, but i will add it back into the tuning options i think.

The floor tom is another pain in the ass for this, but i usually cut everything out of this mic and envelope it, i can get away with enveloping coz there is usually no complex rolls on this tom that i have had to deal with so far.

I will get him to tune his snare a little higher too, it seems to be way lower then any other snare i hear.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by gt_jumper

The first drum capture i ever done, the snare was covered in tape and it sounded horrible and lifless, after the guitars where added it didnt cut the mix and had no beef, hence i usually avoid tape, but i will add it back into the tuning options i think.

Yeah, you only need an inch of tape, and maybe half of that touching the head, to dial out an annoying ring.