Simple Minds: "Don't You Forget About Me" Drums!

[benhallen]

Hey all. I'm starting a record soon and we're looking for a very clean, punchy, clear drum sound, ala Simple Minds, Phil Collins, INXS, etc. I typically use vintage kits for most of the records I produce, but this is an exception. As such, I'm at a bit of a loss to get the right kit. I'm the producer, not the drummer, BTW.

I'm looking for a $1000-1500 kit with 3 toms and snare that will do the trick. I've heard about Gretsch USA Customs, Ludwig Super Classics. Any other suggestions?

Appreciate the help.

Best,

b
e
n

[chrisso]

Any clean sounding contemporary kit will get you there.
Really the absolute key to all the sounds you quote is the stone room ambience. The addition of compressed and sometimes gated ambience channels, plus non-lin reverbs.
You would get a warmer, more contemporary sound using a larger standard room, other than the stone walls, but the main signature of Simple Minds, INXS and Phil Collins of that era is heavy use of bombastic ambience, controlled by compression and/or gates.

[Jax]

Regarding pop tracks, the drums on 'Don't You Forget About Me' are among my most highly regarded performances. A good kit will get you there and your budget will get you a good kit. The production suggestions from chrisso are all spot on.

Just wanted to mention my admiration for (probably) Mel Gaynor's drumming in that song. He's a prime example of the phrase I often hear from guitarists when worshipping their favorites "it's all in the fingers," except in this case, it would be all in the fingers, arms and legs. I think drummers have more coordination to master than guitar players do, actually.

A great drummer elevates even a shit band to another level, and SM's wasn't lame. Even if you spend zero time on everything else when recording, be sure you have a solid, grooving drummer above all. And be thankful if the other musicians are at least as on point.

[Axelrod]

Originally Posted by benhallen

Hey all. I'm starting a record soon and we're looking for a very clean, punchy, clear drum sound, ala Simple Minds, Phil Collins, INXS, etc. I typically use vintage kits for most of the records I produce, but this is an exception. As such, I'm at a bit of a loss to get the right kit. I'm the producer, not the drummer, BTW.

I'm looking for a $1000-1500 kit with 3 toms and snare that will do the trick. I've heard about Gretsch USA Customs, Ludwig Super Classics. Any other suggestions?

Appreciate the help.

Best,

b
e
n

hello ben. this is david axelrod. i hope you're well.
i have a mapex orion kit that just kills in this department. narrow bearing edges, IMHO, are one of the keys to getting a modern drum sound. also, i love remo controlled sound (clear black dot) heads for modern rock drum sounds on a modern (narrow) bearing edge.

there was a killer c and c kit on the classifieds here a couple of months ago that probably would be perfect for what you're looking for.

D.W., C and C, Mapex and Yamaha all make great modern sounding kits. if you go Yamaha, try the "recording custom" series.

best of luck my man. i know that whatever you choose, the recording will sound badass.

[benhallen]

David

Thanks. That was the info I was looking for. Yes, I know that a good drummer and a good sounding room are key(thanks other posters) but what I was looking for was specific kit info. I've heard that the narrow bearing edge is critical. I'm so used to using a 60's ludwig or slingerland kit for most stuff that I'm lost when it comes to more modern sounds!

Hope you are doing well. You still in Nashville? Was about to come up there this weekend actually but going to have to postpone...

b

[relayer]

I think maybe what Chris was saying was that the room and FX might be at least as important as the drums. Mel Gaynor was a real good drummer. I would look for an '80s Yamaha kit.

Good luck.

Steve

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by benhallen

David

Thanks. That was the info I was looking for. Yes, I know that a good drummer and a good sounding room are key(thanks other posters) but what I was looking for was specific kit info.

Oh dear.
I was sincerely trying to help you achieve the sounds you asked about.
In the context of those tracks, mine wasn't the lazy answer of "it's the drummer", or "it's the room". In the context of the artists you listed, the most important element of the drum sound IS THE ROOM.
It's the stone room, or a very large room with super compressed and gated room ambience as a big part of the drum sound. Which was sort of an 80's fad.
Look up Townhouse Studios. A couple of years ago I did a session in INXS' former Sydney studio - both have a stone room for the drums.

Mel Gaynor says:
“It put the stamp on the Simple Minds drum sound. We got a great sound on that record. It was the turnaround album from New Gold Dream, which I thought was very quiet, staid and straight as far as the drums went. This album was really fun. It was recorded in the old Townhouse studios, which apparently used to be a swimming pool.”
“It was the Phil Collins, In The Air Tonight sound.

Honestly, the make of kit, even the edges and heads, is pretty irrelevant if you were going for that INXS, Simple Minds sound.
As I said in my original post, any decent quality contemporary kit will get you there - Yamaha, Tama, Pearl, Ludwig, etc, etc.....
The signature element in the Phil Collins, INXS and Simple Minds sound is the gated room ambience, often stone room and non lin reverbs.
Collins famously used older, single headed Gretsch drums. Mel Gaynor used contemporary Pearl drums at the time. Same sound, wildly different drums.

[relayer]

To my ears, Phil Collins' sound during that period was much more gated than Mel Gaynor's, but there you have it from the horse's mouth. I enjoyed that sound on Peter Gabriel's 3rd record, but after that, everybody started doing it and it became tiresome. I cringe when I hear it today, as it truly dates a record. The Powerstation stuff is where they really overdid it.

Steve

[Axelrod]

Originally Posted by benhallen

David

Thanks. That was the info I was looking for. Yes, I know that a good drummer and a good sounding room are key(thanks other posters) but what I was looking for was specific kit info. I've heard that the narrow bearing edge is critical. I'm so used to using a 60's ludwig or slingerland kit for most stuff that I'm lost when it comes to more modern sounds!

Hope you are doing well. You still in Nashville? Was about to come up there this weekend actually but going to have to postpone...

b

yes, i am well and im still in nashytown. give me a shout if you ever want to come here and hang. i'd love to show you around if you'd like.

[duckoff]

e got a great sound on that record. It was the turnaround album from New Gold Dream, which I thought was very quiet, staid and straight as far as the drums went. This album was really fun. It was recorded in the old Townhouse studios, which apparently used to be a swimming pool.”
“It was the Phil Collins, In The Air Tonight sound.

Yeah - studio 2 in townhouse (RIP), cool stone room, I made a record there & loved it. (Ambience thru SSL talkback compressor plus a bit of RMS non lin....bingo)

MG is an awesome drummer, but out of interest listen for the sloppy fill at the end of 'Don't You' (around 4 mins) - don't hear that these days!!

[TimBatkin]

You may have already thought about this and discounted the idea - but the DDRUM4 SE had Mel Gaynor`s signature drum sounds recorded into it. I would guess the 2 BOx Drumit might also have the same sound files.

[ivmike]

Chrisso's recording suggestions are spot-on (as usual).

As for the drums that Mel used, he was a Premier endorsee at the time and likely used Resonators or Black Shadow drums with Zildjian bronze for that recording.

[cgarges]

It's interesting to note no one's mentioned that another trend of the time in those big stone rooms was to record the drums in all their glorious ambience, but to overdub the cymbals in a more controlled space.

I agree with Chris (as usual) that the sound of the drums up-close is much less important in those kinds of recordings. To me, the things those kits had in common were sharp attack and not a whole lot of sustain. Of course, Phil Collins played single-headed drums, but I have no idea what Mel Gaynor used in the studio. I know thst Mark Brzezicki of Big Country used single-headed rack toms and then double-headed floor toms and those Big Country records have a similar ambience to me. I think if the drums are played apprpriately (which for those kinds of recordings in those kinds of room means "loud") and the room gets filled up with the sound of the kit, then so long as the kit sounds relatively good up-close and you have well-placed room mics, you'll be able to get something in that ballpark.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC