OH Dilemma!

[Mondial Music]

When I mic OH I use to angle the oh-mics towards the snare to get a nice crack. Problem is that when the right oh mic (from drummers view) is aiming at the snare, it also picks ut a great deal of hi hats. Hence, I end up with a stereo image, that is over all really nice and punchy, but with too much hi hat on the wrong side of the kit.

How do you mic OH to get a nice crack from the snare with the hihat still being fairly isolated to the left (from drummers view)?

Best,
Erik Wiss
www.peakroom.com

[Mondial Music]

I might add that I also use spot mics on everything, but for me the OH is the foundation of a good drum sound and I'd like it to be as natural as possible and then simply push the spot mics to get some more attack and pressure. I feel I'm right on the spot except for this annoying hihat leaking over to the other side of the stereo field.

[joeq]

I am assuming you are using split overheads? where are they positioned?

you can have a surprising amount of leeway as to where they can go and still get a useful picture of the drum kit

some interpretations of split overhead drum micing have the (drummer's) right overhead way over past the floor tom and as low as shoulder height and the left overhead directly above the snare. Yet your snare will still be centered as long as the distance from the snare to each mic is equal.

I would just keep playing around with positioning. Throw away all 'visual' ideas about symmetry.

Also, do a search here at GS for "underheads" for an interesting alternative that I am pretty sure would solve your L-R issues at least.

[Mondial Music]

Thanks, joeq.

Yeah I use split over heads. Exactly as you say I've been playing around, not focusing so much on visual symmetry but with a measuring tape between mics and snare to get the snare centered. I usually end up with the left mic a bit higher up, as the snare is located a little more to the left, and the right mic a little lower than the left, somewhere over the right cymbal/ride. The problem seems to be that pointing a SDC with a cardioid pattern on the snare drum, will get the hihat right in sight-line.

How do you mean "right overhead way over past the floor tom and as low as shoulder height"...if I hear you correctly this would mean quite a huge difference in height between the L & R oh mics.

Btw, what do you think is most common, professionally, split or XY?

/Erik

[Mondial Music]

Is "the right overhead way over past the floor tom and as low as shoulder height" like a Glyn Johns technique?

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Mondial Music

Is "the right overhead way over past the floor tom and as low as shoulder height" like a Glyn Johns technique?

Yes. I did not want to say the G word, just because people take it so literally and specifically. The mic above the snare might have to be really high up, to balance a right side mic out in foul territory, but there are a zillion places that two mics can live and still be equidistant from the snare.

I usually don't have this imaging problem myself. Arrival times at the microphones give as much spatial cues as volume levels. If your mics are equidistant from the snare, they are by definition not equidistant from the hi hat. My hi hat usually seems to be where it is supposed to be in the stereo picture.

I get the feeling that the 'where' is only part of your complaint and the other part is how MUCH HH you are getting.

That always comes back to training the drummer to not bash the hi hat.

you could try a mono overhead, mic the hat and pan it to one side

[Mondial Music]

joeq,
do you also think that it is essential to angle the OH mic's towards the snare to get the snare crack into the OH, or is that something that I might have put too much importance into? I mean, many people use XY, where the mics are definitely not angled towards the snare...

I will try your suggestions on the next drum session, thank you!

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Mondial Music

joeq,
do you also think that it is essential to angle the OH mic's towards the snare to get the snare crack into the OH, or is that something that I might have put too much importance into?

well if you have split overheads, you have to aim them somewhere. I have always aimed them at the same point -the snare. For me, it's all about the snare. How the OH's pick up the rest of the kit is secondary, IMO.

OTOH when recording an acoustic guitar it's common have two cardioids pointed to different spots on the guitar, so it might be worth a try to point the right-side mic somewhere else, and see how it works.

I always say, anything is worth a shot - in the sense that it usually takes you less time to try it, than to argue about it, or come up with theory.

I mean, many people use XY, where the mics are definitely not angled towards the snare...

So, how do you like xy?

And again, how much of your problem is about this stereo imaging of the high hats vs the over-all volume of the high-hats? Is this 'spill' happening because the mics are "aimed wrong", or because the hi-hat is "in everything?" Is the high hat sound bouncing all over the room, picking up on the snare mic, etc etc?

A dedicated hat mic could move the apparent position of the hats via panning if that's what's bothering you. But no amount of positioning of OH mics is going to appreciably change the volume of the hats if the drummer is hitting them too hard.

[Mondial Music]

The over all volume is fine, although a little less hihat could easily be compensated for with the spot mic, which argues that I should tell the drummer to hit it a little softer.

I find it hard to see where I should put the right oh mic, still having it aimed at the snare but not aimed at the hihat, usually drummers have a ride or even worse a china cymbal over the floor tom and Im afraid a china hit would kill the oh with the mic placed close to it.

Of course its a matter of trying different things again and again, but talking to you guys is a good complement.

[NickNagurka]

Every try a figure-eight polar pattern on your spaced pattern? Basically, fire them the same way you would fire a pair of cardioids. They'll be a fair bit more directional and you'll get a bit less HH in your overheads.

Cheers,

Nick

[cgarges]

I basically aim spaced-pair overheads straight down and not towards the snare drum because to me, doing that causes the stereo image to smear, just like what you're experiencing. Keeping them aimed downward focuses on the general area in which they're placed (that's the idea, right?) and measuring their distance from the center of the snare drum keeps the snare drum centered and in-phase in the overhead image. That's what works for me, anyway.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC