Electronic Drums

[bdam123]

I have plans on doing some major recording using a Roland V Kit mainly because I can't afford studio time, a real drum kit, or enough mics and preamps for one even if I did have one at my disposal.

I've used Native Instruments Addictive Drums a few times but never for a real song. My main concern is getting the drums to sound as real as possible and as close to a great recording as I can.

Here is a link to a project I did for my drummer and DJ. This is all done with AD. What do you guys think of the sounds?
Here

Also what is everyone's take on electronic drums in general? What do you guys think the program is? (Addictive, EZ Drummer, Studio, etc etc). In your opinion, how do they stand up next to real live drums? Have any of you done any real project with them that I can listen to?

All input is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[bdam123]

bump

[mattjew24]

I use My TD 3 v kit for stuff a lot... I run midi from it into Steven Slate Drums. It sounds ok... I could get it sounding real with time.

One tactic is to record a real kit, then use a program like drumagog and blend in samples

[joeq]

Originally Posted by bdam123

In your opinion, how do they stand up next to real live drums?

If you want it to sound like real drums, use real drums.

People who use these programs are sometimes super-happy with the sounds they get, but it seems to be in inverse proportion to their experience with actual drum recording

Listen to these tracks, they say, "you can't tell"!

I can tell.

It's like a kindergartener's ashtray. They're so proud, what can you say that won't break their little hearts?

[ArnieInTheSky]

Originally Posted by joeq

If you want it to sound like real drums, use real drums.

This is unfortunately 100% right on. A digital kit is not a replacement for an acoustic kit. You'd be better off accepting you're using a digital kit with software and work with that mind frame instead of trying to get an acoustic sound out of it. Embrace the digital technology and use it's strengths.

[chrisso]

But in the real world drum software is used on a bunch of records and no one can tell.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by chrisso

But in the real world drum software is used on a bunch of records and no one can tell.

can you point us to an example or two?

[chrisso]

I thought it was obvious to you?


I could, but I'm not sure the (hit) artists want people to know they used virtual drums instead of a real drummer.
I also don't think they want to get into a this versus that debate as I think they see it as irrelevant.
As a drummer I agree, it's hard to beat a great drummer, playing nice drums in a great room, recorded by a great engineer. However, the virtual drum software flipside to that is not as obviously heard as you claim (IMHO).

[joeq]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I thought it was obvious to you?

maybe it still is. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I can happily continue to believe that I can spot virtual drums vs a kit almost every time.

I hear fake kits all over the place in commercial stuff. But maybe I am wrong and some of those fake kits are real and vice versa. Real kits with sample augmentation might fall on the border line.

I could, but I'm not sure the (hit) artists want people to know they used virtual drums

I guess now I'll never know!

As a drummer I agree, it's hard to beat a great drummer, playing nice drums in a great room, recorded by a great engineer. However, the virtual drum software flipside to that is not as obviously heard as you claim (IMHO).

All I know is whenever I hear anyone on these boards posting a virtual drum clip, they expect everyone to be 'fooled' and very few are. Somebody recently put up a bunch, and said 'guess which ones are real' and of course none of them were real. He seemed surprised that people could tell.

[mattjew24]

I use my v kit when I need to record an idea I had at 1am....and no, its not a real kit...and it doesn't sound like it...but who cares? I can record a real kit if I feel like it.

Sometimes a client might suggest adding drums to a song...so I play on their tracks just to give them an idea of which musical direction they wanna go.

Being versatile isn't a bad thing

[ArnieInTheSky]

Originally Posted by chrisso

But in the real world drum software is used on a bunch of records and no one can tell.

Wrong. Most people don't care or even just like it, (accept it) but I think there's a fair amount of people who can tell and don't like it. The main question should be, do you like it and does it work for you?

[chipss36]

I belive spotting the e-kit say a few years ago, this could be true, not so sure now adays, sd2 is samples of real kits real room and great mics,
the lost studios is scary real.....

perfact...nope but better than I could record at home.

if you have a great room mic pres, mics, ect.....you would not be using e drums anyway...lol
YMMV

[Oli P]

Originally Posted by bdam123

In your opinion, how do they stand up next to real live drums? Have any of you done any real project with them that I can listen to?

All input is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

This record is mostly Superior drummer played on a Yamaha DTXtreme III kit.

iTunes - Music - Faroe Islands by Russ Taff

But some tracks are real drums...so a fair test I guess.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by ArnieInTheSky

Wrong. Most people don't care or even just like it, (accept it) but I think there's a fair amount of people who can tell and don't like it.

I was talking about the audience, not within the music industry.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by joeq

All I know is whenever I hear anyone on these boards posting a virtual drum clip, they expect everyone to be 'fooled' and very few are.

Postings on Gearslutz do not equal identifying software drums on commercial releases though.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Postings on Gearslutz do not equal identifying software drums on commercial releases though.

true, but in those 'quizzes' someone is willing to confirm the answers at the end. For all you or I know, I may have a 100% track record in spotting the software, but since those who know don't say....

[chrisso]

Yep.
As far as Gearslutz is concerned you have a 100% record, as it seems no one has posted anything that convinces you.
All I can say is that in the real world, a lot of professionals are using both Superior and EZdrummer on commercial releases, a couple of them to my knowledge notable hits, and no one has commented on the obviously fake drums.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by chrisso

.
All I can say is that in the real world, a lot of professionals are using both Superior and EZdrummer on commercial releases, a couple of them to my knowledge notable hits, and no one has commented on the obviously fake drums.

I spotted them, I haven't commented because I just don't want to embarrass the artists in question...

[dosilegecko]

I don't like the FEEL of electric kits for some reason. I'm not knocking them, but I once purchased a roland TD-12... one of the higher end ones with nice pads. After about a week of playing I found that I didn't really enjoy practicing and it was because the pads and cymbals felt off. I missed the feedback from a real kit so I returned it.

[ArnieInTheSky]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Yep.
As far as Gearslutz is concerned you have a 100% record, as it seems no one has posted anything that convinces you.
All I can say is that in the real world, a lot of professionals are using both Superior and EZdrummer on commercial releases, a couple of them to my knowledge notable hits, and no one has commented on the obviously fake drums.

I also hear the complaint of "Everything sounds the same." from the general audience. The general audience may be uneducated and couldn't tell you the difference between one drum sound to the next, but what they do tell you is' "the bands all sound the same."

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by ArnieInTheSky

The general audience may be uneducated and couldn't tell you the difference between one drum sound to the next, but what they do tell you is' "the bands all sound the same."

Probably because everyone's using the same drum software, or the same superstar mixers, who use the same drum samples.

[chipss36]

I will agree the feel of e-drums is off, and feel its a latency issue , but for the home studio e-drums to me are a no brainer, I don't need the perfect room , mics, pres, the big studios have and can lay down tracks at 3am and my nabors know nothing about it, after the fact and in pro tools change kits, parts of a kit, have control over mic bleeds and room mics, compressers or any fx I choose. The deeper I get into superor drummer the more I like it and the better I am getting at my tracks sitting in the mix just the way I want, sorry if this pisses off big time studios....but I am telling you it does work and fools many ...if you have some crazy golden ear you are a minority ...most can not or even care...its pretty simple I am light years ahead of the days I tried to get tones this good with what mics , pres, and rooms I had available to me.. That's just a cold hard fact. And. An do this right now with a flip of a switch. I'll never go back.

[Kcatthedog]

Well i play acoustic real drums and digital e drums so lets just agree that e drums are not acoustic instruments so don't have that nuance sonically or feel.

For me its about the final mix as we have moved into the modern heavily compressed sound do acoustic drums fit ? Apparently lots of people reach for the samples and lets not even talk about mp3s vs vinyl !

[mattjew24]

Here's my way now...

Record real drums...(to click)...taking as much time as needed to get sound right

But in the end, if your kit or drummer SUCK to begin with...use a drum replacer program.