Rim shots on the snare

[Grasshopper]

I've started using this technique myself as a drummer and I STRONGLY suggest that my clients do the same. The snare volume is at the very least doubled and the tone is much snappier. I don't even care how hard they hit the cymbals as long as they rim shot the snare. In my humble opinion it has saved 40 or 50 of my recordings from the "hat basher" sound. It just sounds so good why play a snare any differently? (speaking about rock drumming in general but I don't use this as a blanket statement) I was wondering how common this practice is. Am I the only one who loves this!?! How come people don't bring this up in "I need more snare in my snare mic" threads? I have to laugh when, after I suggest rim shots, the drummer says "that ain't my sound". I'm thinking, so your sound is gently touching that $135 piccolo snare at various points on the head like a prepubescent girl while beating the absolute Sh** out of your cymbals. OK guy. You're the man. How rude of me to suggest that stupid rim shot thing. After all it's more important that you do a triplet on the the kick every measure than it is to have an audible snare track.

[/rant]

[Alexi]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I've started using this technique myself as a drummer and I STRONGLY suggest that my clients do the same. The snare volume is at the very least doubled and the tone is much snappier. I don't even care how hard they hit the cymbals as long as they rim shot the snare. In my humble opinion it has saved 40 or 50 of my recordings from the "hat basher" sound. It just sounds so good why play a snare any differently? (speaking about rock drumming in general but I don't use this as a blanket statement) I was wondering how common this practice is. Am I the only one who loves this!?! How come people don't bring this up in "I need more snare in my snare mic" threads? I have to laugh when, after I suggest rim shots, the drummer says "that ain't my sound". I'm thinking, so your sound is gently touching that $135 piccolo snare at various points on the head like a prepubescent girl while beating the absolute Sh** out of your cymbals. OK guy. You're the man. How rude of me to suggest that stupid rim shot thing. After all it's more important that you do a triplet on the the kick every measure than it is to have an audible snare track.

[/rant]

i always thought rim shots come naturally............should see my stickbag

[Beezoboy]

Playing on a the rim is what I always do too. However, if someone is not used to playing rimshots every hit and you try to make them, you'll get an annoying mish-mash of 23 different snare sounds. I don't personally care which a player does as long as he/she is consistant. I can always move a mic, choose a different one, or choose a different snare to help deal with cymbal bleed. What I can't do it is salvage a drummer who is inconsistant. Thats when I choose drumagog.

Beez

[Jax]

Check out this thread. We went off about this awhile ago, not that it's not worth bringing up again.

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...Jules+rim+shot

[SJRS]

Can't say I have ever recorded a drummer that rimshots all the time. They use it for accenting certain parts of the track and thats about it. It would get boring very quickly if they did rimshots through the whole track. But thats just me

Cheers

Jason

[DaveC]

i always thought rim shots come naturally............should see my stickbag

Well, with all those sticks splintered to hell, you could make a LOT of
nice toothpicks!
I also always play with rimshots (depending on the style), the only downside is that I always break a pair after 45 minutes.
With 7A-sticks that's not weird ofcourse, but I can generate more power with thinner sticks.

[pan]

The Stick-Beaver

[Farview]

I play rimshots all the time as well. It does help even out the dynamics between the cymbals and the snare.

On a related note: How come every drummer that walks up to me and tells me that he is a heavy hitter isn't?

AND

Why do some drummers confuse inconsistency with dynamics?

[mopppish]

I'm actually starting to train myself NOT to rimshot all of the time. When it's appropriate, which in some kinds of music is nearly all of the time, it's nearly indispensible. But I want to be able to play other styles and with a little more finesse, so I've been trying to treat the drumset snare drum more like I would a concert snare drum, meaning only that I'm actually trying to use a refined "touch" when I play. Also, when I played almost exclusively rimshots, I tended to play way too much from my arm and not enough from my wrist. There are certainly things to be said about both ways of playing, but for the way I played, rimshots were more of a leftover from my teenage skinbashing days than the powerful, clean, consistent backbeat that they should be.

[MATTI]

Yes. its about balance of playing, hard to demonstrate to drummers sometimes.
Matti

[warhead]

I rimshot on heavy rock beat stuff all the time, I love that shotgun blast sound!

War

[joshelevator]

i sometimes like the sound of hitting the snare without the rim and then cranking it up later. it can be a fatter sound - no tin. you need the right snare of course. i find drummers rarely want to do this becuase of the feeling of holding back, especially on high-energy tracks. im not sure if this was how it was done in these recordings, but when i hear some ramones and other punk-rock style drums, it sounds to me that they are not hitting rimshots and it is a great sound. i like both sounds for different recordings.

[ImJohn]

So . . . . . are all of you guys that are doing rim shots nearly 100% or the time mainly playing top 40, pop rock, pop metal, pop fussion, or ????

[warhead]

Heavier rock here.

War

[Jax]

Rimshots all the time... I dunno, even most modern heavy rock/metal doesn't have the drummer doing that. Where is this coming from? lol Seems like a thread novelty.

[Beezoboy]

I play rock/alternative. Obviously in some styles of music a rimshot is not appropriate.

Beez

[Grasshopper]

Don't get me wrong, I don't rim shot 100% of the time. I totally agree with those that have said there are times when it is inappropriate. It just blows my mind when a drummer in a heavy rock band (slinging a POS snare) comes in and says he's a heavy hitter and then it becomes obvious he has that really gross unintentional dynamic where you can tell he is not in control of what's going on with the snare. He is so concerned with other elements of his playing that the snare is an after thought. I feel like in this scenario it is very appropriate to deploy the rim shot technique.

[C_F_H_13]

I seriously don't understand how someone who's playing rock or anything heavier/fast could NOT use rimshots. I physically can't get any volume out of my snare unless I do a rim shot. I've watched local metal band drummers who just beat their snare to pieces trying to get volume out of it without rimshots...it makes me arms hurt just thinking about it.

The cool thing about rimshots is the farther up(or down) the stick you hit the brighter or lower the tone of the drum...

[C/G]

Originally Posted by SJRS

Can't say I have ever recorded a drummer that rimshots all the time. They use it for accenting certain parts of the track and thats about it. It would get boring very quickly if they did rimshots through the whole track. But thats just me

Cheers

Jason

No, me too. I never hit rim shots for my own music (rock, indie rock, alt.) unless I want to, which is hardly ever, bordering on never. I never have a problem getting my snare hits heard, and I don't hit that hard anymore either, but my snares are pretty loud to begin with.

[RoundBadge]

Hitting the rim is a good thing at times .
but a lot of drummers don't realize especially with recording..sometimes the "Fatness" of the sound goes right out the door..no EQ or sample replacement is gonna fix it either..
.. guys in the studio need to learn how to hit consistantly..loud or quiet..rim shots or not...

The rimshot is just another dynamic in the myriad arsenal of ways to hit the things and get sounds outta the kit.

i'm also using Drumagog a lot for a fix on these guys
..but nothing beats a good solid,consistent player

[wyomingbound]

Originally Posted by Beezoboy

I play rock/alternative. Obviously in some styles of music a rimshot is not appropriate.

Beez

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Hitting the rim is a good thing at times .
...
The rimshot is just another dynamic in the myriad arsenal of ways to hit the things and get sounds outta the kit.
...

Fascinating discussion (this and the older "rimshot" thread that was cited). I never knew there was even a controversy!

Anyways, I love the crack of rimshots. But I'll try to add to the previous guys that said it can't be simplified to black/white take-it-or-leave-it thing.

Two good examples of skillful use of rimshots on the classic disc "Men at Work - Business As Usual" . For the first song "Who Can It Be Now", drummer Jerry Speiser hits all rimshots (which plays nicely into the "knock knock" theme of the song). For the next song "Down Under", zero rimshots and the snare of course is more laid back sounding. After reading these threads, I guess J.S. is a drumming genius because he had the technique to execute either rimshots (or zero rimshots) for each song. (Seriously, J.S. was a very underrated drummer.) Both songs sound awesome and have well-recorded drums.

I'm dating myself by referring to 80s music but I was trying to show example by one drummer within one album making tasteful choices on snare technique within the context of the music.

I also like drummers that seem to hit 99.9% rimshots: Kenny Aronoff (J Mellencamp) and Alan White (Yes) . I also like drummers that mix it up (Steve Gadd). It doesn't seem right to segregate drummers based on their rimshot tendencies.

The love/hate attitude about rimshots is baffling!

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by wyomingbound

I also like drummers that seem to hit 99.9% rimshots: Kenny Aronoff (J Mellencamp) and Alan White (Yes) . I also like drummers that mix it up (Steve Gadd). It doesn't seem right to segregate drummers based on their rimshot tendencies.

The love/hate attitude about rimshots is baffling!

Yep Bill Buford is a master of that too..
No love /hate here
All's I have to do is put on an old Buddy Rich video to remind me of what it's all about..

[toolskid]

As I probably said before (and as RB has said too), rimshots are just another tool. I often will play the od rimshot in a fill, or even mix up rimshots with different dynamics within a pattern with a centre hit backbeat. Some tracks may need that attacky sound, some snares and toms actually sound better with rimshots (so maybe they're not right for the track!!!). Using rimshots to make up for an inability to balance your internal dynamics amongst the kit instruments is IMO a very limiting technique (tho playing REALLY quietly and taking the rimshot down to a whisper too is very cool for your developing your touch and control!!)

[cajonezzz]

I see rimshots as kinda a bad haibt from my live playing gigs---- it's become somewhat of a security blanket, cuts through and all, but definitely NOT what you want happening all the time on a session.

much agreeement with Round badge here. the fatness and tone of a snare can get lost with a shot.


Look at Kenny arronoff's angle of his snare ( lot's of other guys like that too) . it kinda forces the dead center non shot thing, he's got to drop his hand to get the shot-

anyhow, it's really best to learn how to hit both ways, dead center, hard, consistent, pull the tone out, and sometimes shot the snot outta the drum, or sometimes just a quarter stick shaft shot....ala stewert copeland. point is, be able to do it all of the above.
but I gotta say that the first poster requiring all shot's is not happening.


cz

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

I see rimshots as kinda a bad haibt from my live playing gigs---- it's become somewhat of a security blanket, cuts through and all, but definitely NOT what you want happening all the time on a session.




cz

Same here ..
for me it was started trying to play zep covers in my first high school band..1978..
and the guitar player had a marshall stack..the lead guy had an orange..
Bass guy had an SVT
never had mics on the drums,,becuase the PA was such a piece of junk
My hands used to bleed halfway through the gigs from trying to compete with the volumes..so the rimshots kinda came pretty naturally ..just trying to keep up with other guys..
Years later, I kinda figured out why my gigs didn't always sound like the Physical Graffitti record

[Jules]

For knucklehead rock rimshots are great...

I guess its such a refreshing change for an engineer to be presented with punchy rimshots in contrast to whimpy little girl tapping in the middle, and its evil twin, the dreaded - 'hit the hats hard on every snare hit' amateur nightmare...

Oh the SONG? What? Er.. oh yeah.. absolutely!Whatever suits the song... sure...

(love those rim shots!!)

[thejook]

I've found they tend to 'choke' the snare. (?)

You can 'pull' the sound out of the snare if you hit it dead center, consistently, and go with the rebound in the right way. No reason you shouldn't be loud as hell like that.

[blackwatch]

[chetatkinsdiet]

I play in a pretty loud rock band...think Replacements, Faces, NY Dolls, etc...
I hit rimshots live on at least the 2 and 4 and sometimes more. I just mix it up a bit and try to do it for accents, but really I don't think about every little thing that much when playing live. I just let it happen.

Studio's different. You loose the girth of the snare with rimshots. If the song needs it, or I can't quit doing them, I'll switch to a fatter snare....deeper and wooden usually.

m