Drum shells. Stave vs. plys.

[C/G]

Ok drummers. I have been looking to buy a new snare drum but am now leaning towards the route of getting the parts and doing it myself. I have been on the Joshua Tree site and am thinking of getting a stave shell from them. The shells are available with the bearing edges pre-cut, holes for strainer and lugs predrilled and they will even finish the shell for me if I want. Basically I am assembling the drum.
I have never played a stave or a solid ply snare, just the standard glued ply type of snare drum.

Shells I am considering:

Maple and walnut stave. 14" x 7", 3/8" thick shell with reinforcement hoops.

Cherry and walnut stave in same dimensions as above but in a 5/16" thick shell with reinforcement hoops.

I am also considering the above in a 14" x 8" with the 5/16" thick shell.

I have just played maple so if anyone can comment on tonal differences between the cherry, walnut, and maple that would be cool.

Hardware will be Ego tube lugs with an Ego or Trick throwoff and die cast hoops.

Any comments or suggestions?

www.joshuatreepercussion.com

[ajcamlet]

Colin:

Check these guys out- high quality- low cost:

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/home.shtml

[C/G]

I have seen their site. He gets his shells from Joshua Tree so the way I figure it, I save some cash getting everything from Joshua Tree and put it together myself. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[chetatkinsdiet]

While there are slight differences in all the various wood types, it's really the bearing edges that make a drum. Snares don't really benefit from the resonant capabilities like toms or kicks. I mean a snare is really a burst of sound, right? As long as the wood isn't mush like in the cheapest of drums, it's going to sound fine. Just my .02, but too much is made of the actual woods used. Think about the old vintage drums....Luddy, Slingerland, etc. They were usually alternating layers of poplar and maple or poplar and mahogany. They sounded just fine. There wasn't really any mention of what woods went into drums until the marketing depts got hold of drum companies in the 80s.

Don't get me wrong, there are slight differences in the woods used. If you had identical drums lined up and each was out of a different wood, you could tell the differences, but overall...with these, just get one you like the looks of and you'll be fine.

I'd worry more about the changes in sound a triple flanged hoop vs. a die-cast makes. Or tube lugs vs. standard. What snares or throwoff, etc.

Not to mention vent hole or not...multiple vent holes, snare bed design, etc......


later,
m

[C/G]

Good comment. I figured the various hard woods tonal differences would be splitting hairs. As soon as there are choices thrown into the situation, it tends to compliment things. That all said, I think I am going with Ego tube lugs and the shell will have a 45 deg. bearing edge and there will be a vent hole. Don't know much about snare bed options offerd. I still want a 14" x 8" so thickness might come into play. 1/4" thick with reinforcement hoops. Do cast hoops tend to dry out the tone?

[davenutz]

cast hoops do dry out the tone, but rimshots and rim-clicks can sound muted.

If you can really tune a drum, i would opt for a 2.3mm flanged hoop on top and a cast hoop on the bottom....i believe that stewart copeland made that popular, and it really works! (thinking back, he might have done it in reverse, but i prefer flanged hoops for a more full bodied rim shot)

any consideration as to what kind of wires or strainer assembly you will be using?
the Trick aluminium strainers are very nice and built very well, but if you dont want to drop that kind of cash, drumsupplyhouse and amdrumparts both have a good selection.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet

While there are slight differences in all the various wood types, it's really the bearing edges that make a drum. Snares don't really benefit from the resonant capabilities like toms or kicks. I mean a snare is really a burst of sound, right? As long as the wood isn't mush like in the cheapest of drums, it's going to sound fine. Just my .02, but too much is made of the actual woods used. Think about the old vintage drums....Luddy, Slingerland, etc. They were usually alternating layers of poplar and maple or poplar and mahogany. They sounded just fine. There wasn't really any mention of what woods went into drums until the marketing depts got hold of drum companies in the 80s.

Don't get me wrong, there are slight differences in the woods used. If you had identical drums lined up and each was out of a different wood, you could tell the differences, but overall...with these, just get one you like the looks of and you'll be fine.

I'd worry more about the changes in sound a triple flanged hoop vs. a die-cast makes. Or tube lugs vs. standard. What snares or throwoff, etc.

Not to mention vent hole or not...multiple vent holes, snare bed design, etc......


later,
m

I have segmented snares (3 of them) along with steel, bronze, maple ply, mahogany ply and bell brass snares.

Lately I've only been playing on my segmented snares. I'm really sold on them now. Although, that could change in a year

A lot has to do with taste and the type of music, but for me, segmented snares act a lot like a solid shell snare. There is something like 80% less glue in a segmented snare over a ply snare. Plus, segmented snares are fairly thick....mine are all 3/8" thick.

What I like about mine are the crack, volume and sensitivity...all while still retaining the warmth of a wood snare. Also can go higher up in volume before choking.

Now, none of mine are actually 'stave' shells (vertical wood strips), mine are all horizontal segments, which I think are stronger and have less seems at the bearing edges.

I myself notice a big difference between ply’s and segmented snares. But none of my ply snares have a shell thickness close to my segmented snares.

Either way, I'm a big segmented fan these days. Go with a harder heavier wood if you want crack/volume/projection and little choking. Lighter wood for lighter duty work.



Fleaman

[junior]

Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet

While there are slight differences in all the various wood types, it's really the bearing edges that make a drum. Snares don't really benefit from the resonant capabilities like toms or kicks. I mean a snare is really a burst of sound, right? As long as the wood isn't mush like in the cheapest of drums, it's going to sound fine. Just my .02, but too much is made of the actual woods used. Think about the old vintage drums....Luddy, Slingerland, etc. They were usually alternating layers of poplar and maple or poplar and mahogany. They sounded just fine. There wasn't really any mention of what woods went into drums until the marketing depts got hold of drum companies in the 80s.

Don't get me wrong, there are slight differences in the woods used. If you had identical drums lined up and each was out of a different wood, you could tell the differences, but overall...with these, just get one you like the looks of and you'll be fine.

I'd worry more about the changes in sound a triple flanged hoop vs. a die-cast makes. Or tube lugs vs. standard. What snares or throwoff, etc.

Not to mention vent hole or not...multiple vent holes, snare bed design, etc......


later,
m

???

[C/G]

Originally Posted by Dr. Nutz

cast hoops do dry out the tone, but rimshots and rim-clicks can sound muted.

If you can really tune a drum, i would opt for a 2.3mm flanged hoop on top and a cast hoop on the bottom....i believe that stewart copeland made that popular, and it really works! (thinking back, he might have done it in reverse, but i prefer flanged hoops for a more full bodied rim shot)

any consideration as to what kind of wires or strainer assembly you will be using?
the Trick aluminium strainers are very nice and built very well, but if you dont want to drop that kind of cash, drumsupplyhouse and amdrumparts both have a good selection.

I have not decided upon a strainer, probably a Fatcat or a Noble & Cooley. I have tried Puresounds but don't really like the sound they have, but that was a smaller 16 strand on an already dry 18 ply maple snare. If I go with a thinner shell I would probaly use cast hoops and for a thicker shell I might go with wood. I like the Trick and Ego strainers because they act like the one that I had on an Ayotte snare. It is not on or off but variable.

[gevermil]

Reading this just made me groan
Im a drummer looking for a new snare , ( finally " found " my cymbals ) .
As far as the bearing edge on a drum , It must be perfectly flat , correct ?
I noticed on my old slingerland there is a slight grove where the snares wrap over the bottom head . Is this repairable or is the drum shot
g

[chetatkinsdiet]

G,

That is called a snare bed. It's intentionally cut in the bottom of the drum to give the snares a place to sit. Old Sling snares can sound great. What do you have? Is it an 8 lug?
later,
m

[beef]

I am digging my stavesnares (from joshua and unix).

14x7" Turari (brazillian oak) 5/8" thick with wide and deep beds 30 snares. Stupid loud, with loads of tone and an attack that kills small animals.

Softwood for fatback snare, butternut 14x6,5"x1/4", regular snarebeds. Cherry, steambent 14x5x1/4" light weight. and on and on.....

[Nutmeg II.]

Here is a "little" info about wood types and the things they make.

And here you can see Bob Gatzen showing the difference of flanged and diecast hoops on a snare (skip to 2:20).

[big country]

Originally Posted by Nutmeg II.

Here is a "little" info about wood types and the things they make.

And here you can see Bob Gatzen showing the difference of flanged and diecast hoops on a snare (skip to 2:20).

that was awsome!

[lpkyer]

Bob Gratzen videos are amazing....

By the way I'm also thinking of making my how stave drum through Joshua Tree.
Here are the 2 drums I'm planning to build:

14x7 Cherry with Purpleheart stripes

13x6 Jarrah

Both with Ego Tube Lugs and Puresound wires.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by Nutmeg II.

Here is a "little" info about wood types and the things they make.

The guy in that link, Greg Gaylord, is a (local to me) N. California drum builder. He makes great stuff! thumbsup

[turningl]

To find a good snare sound, you must play as many as you can, listen to more and when you play or hear what you like - look to emulate that sound. There are a great many drum builders with great and classy offers, but look beyond the ply shell assembly line and look for local artisans working in wood or metal who can build something that both looks and sounds great, and worthy of your art.

[beef]

I built myself some stavedrums, and gotta say they are cutting and loud. Mine are a turari (brazillian oak 14x7" 5/8" thick and African bubinga 13x7" 5/8" thick).

I did alot reading here; Ghostnote Community


I got the bubinga staveshell (three pictures on top) from unix and hardware from ego lugs, and the turari shell ( bottom pictures) is from joshua tree lugs from ego.

I think stave shell are great for loud high pitched drums (thick shells).

[Karate Kenneth]

Two really beautiful snares you've got there beef!

I'm a bit torn between stave and single-ply...

[beef]

Originally Posted by Karate Kenneth

Two really beautiful snares you've got there beef!

I'm a bit torn between stave and single-ply...

I think steambent single-ply is great -check out vaughncraft, they got some spectacular shells, even complete steambent drumsets.

[trondrums]

www.phixiousdrums.com

Beautiful drums.

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by trondrums

www.phixiousdrums.com

Beautiful drums.

The pictures sure don't make them look very nice...

Look at those bearing edges... ack!!

[beef]

Originally Posted by trondrums

www.phixiousdrums.com

Beautiful drums.

yeah the bearingedges doesn`t look right, to much cut from the outside.

[chefjeff01]

I OWN A JS=OSHUA TREE 7X14 BUBINGA STAVE WITH A MATTE FINISH, THE SNARE HONESTLY IS OKAY AND FOR WHAT I PAID AROUND
$700-800 I WASNT THAT IMPRESSED, BUT I HAVE FOUND A COMPANY THAT SELLS SINGLE PLY CUSTOM DRUMS WITH HIGH GLOSS FINISH AND TRICK 007 THROWOFF (BEST ON MARKET) AND PURESOUND SNARES, YOU CHOOSE THE BEARING EDGE, HOOPS, LUGS. I paid $600 including shipping for a 14x7 blk. walnut, with blk chrome 10 lugs with brass post, blk chrome die cst hoops, and a trick 007 throwoff and a natural finish high gloss laquer.thw aound ia amazing, blows the Joshua tree out the water and looks better, is better made and sounds 10 times better and i also have a 13x7 birdseye maple with 10 chrome lugs with brass post, chrome die cst hoops,trick 007 throwoff and a high gloss finish for only $650, the company i am speaking of is Carolina Drumworks, they do stave and segment but the best is single ply, jeff the owner is supper knowledgeable,look at Carolinadrumworks.com and i guarantee if you do go with a stave ,which i think your crazy, once you hear the prices at Carolina for single ply it out beats joshu tree,trust i own both brands. but if you go stave go with Carolina because they will put on a high gloss finish as standard as well as die cast where at Joshua tree those hard ware cost more. just check out carolinadrumworks.com and the gold gallery.

[dosilegecko]

I am glad people like the Ego parts, my company uses their lugs almost exclusively. They are extremely high quality and made in the USA. Tyler is also a good guy to do business with, he always makes things right and has been known to ship us replacement parts for free.

The bearing edges are very important for the overall tonal quality of the drum, if they aren't perfect, the membrane doesn't have perfect contact and it will be hard or impossible to tune. I'd agree with a previous poster and say that the species of wood isn't as important as the other parts. They will all sound fine as a snare.