A ******* Rock Kit! Trick drums?

[Jax]

I've read responses to similar-ish threads on this forum where people were looking for a good Rock kit and were told that it doesn't really matter what they get because:

- any good quality kit will do and it more down to who's playing it and how they play.

- most of what's recorded in modern rock is going to be sample replaced anyway.

The first point, I agree with and at this stage in my drumming life I would consider myself at least a good Rock drummer. And I have good drums.

The second point, for the purposes of this thread, is bogus and misses the truth that any drummer who finds it worth doing enjoys playing the drums. That 2nd point is an answer to a different question that doesn't need to be brought up here. This is a thread for people who love playing drums, especially Rock drums.

I have two kits, a Yamaha Maple Custom that is a great all-arounder, and a Yamaha Oak Custom that I thought I'd get more out of for playing Rock. The Oak, she is just Loud, but I don't really think the tone is there. I mean, there is a tone, but it gets buried by the initial attack volume followed by the shortened decay of Oak. For playing Rock, I like and tend to hit hard. The weird thing is, the softer you hit the Oaks, the more tone resonates off the drum.

I need something I can dig into and regardless of how hard I hit it, the reply is just more tone and volume, without an overwhelming attack. The toms need to be thick, full, projecting and still be in their comfort zone if tuned low and very low. No slap and plastic, but punch and oomph! Bubinga and Oak seem to be out of the question from what I've tried so far. Birch too, unless it's really thin Sonor.

To those of you who like playing Rock drums and appreciate a very punchy, somewhat modern sounding kit, what are you playing? 70's Ludwig is a probable answer, but that's not the kit I'm looking for. I already know and love that sound, but I would like to go a little more modern. Anyone played Trick drums? I'm interested in them, but they might be too modern and lacking in personality because they're made of aircraft metal (just a preconception, not based on experience). All suggestions, discussion and even a little ridicule are welcome.

[MyOnlineDrummer]

DW Maple Super Duper cool Rock killer is my rock kit.
Punchy and crisp for rock, Warm and subtle when finessed.

[RoundBadge]

I've got around 12 kits at my place.
Ludwig,Radio King,Slingerland,Gretsch,Leedy,DW,etc.
tweaked by a great tech.
bearing edges,etc,dialed in.
the 70's & early 80's,90's Gretschs get the most use for pretty much everything.
lots of big cats in town rent older Gretsch's for studio stuff[Grohl,Chad Smith,etc,etc]
I've rented my Gretschs to many engineer,producer guys around town.
got a call recently to ship them for Aerosmiths new record..they ended up finding a local guy in Boston.
for whatever reason the mic's love em,they always sound great.

[biggator6]

I'd love a set of Trick drums.. they're fantastic. Expensive, but fantastic.

No idea how they record, though.. check over on DFO - someone there may have tried them in the studio. There's a few guys who endorse the Trick pedals - maybe they've spent more time with the drums, too.

[chrisso]

Is there anything special about Trick?
I've heard some pro players rave about Pork Pie. I think the shells are probably all the same, but the set-up and attention to detail is what counts.
I think quite honestly THE best drums being made today are Craviotto.
I would also agree with Roundbadge, a tweaked Gretsch kit will sound awesome, but it has to be tweaked by a good tech.
After years of back and forth, the Noble & Cooley Horizon series has ended up being my ultimate contemporary kit.
It's sounds punchy and contemporary, but has the added vintage warmth of the inner mahogany ply.
I would unreservedly recommend them:
Noble & Cooley Limited Edition Horizon Hybrid Series

In conclusion, having done a lot of studio work in the past, not so much now, if I was still fulltime recording albums I'd have two or three kits....
1) A 70's, 80's tweaked Gretsch.
2) Either an N&C Horizon or a Craviotto.
Probably all three.

[biggator6]

Chris,
Trick aren't keller drums - they're all made from aircraft aluminum. Pretty awesome stuff.

If you've seen the Trick pedals - the drums are machined like those...

[chrisso]

Oh ok.
I knew they made a metal snare drum, I didn't know all their kits were metal.
My kit recommendations still stand.
The Trick pedals are over engineered IMHO.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by chrisso

1) A 70's, 80's tweaked Gretsch.
2) Either an N&C Horizon or a Craviotto.
Probably all three.

I agree although I did have a beautiful Crav kit a couple years ago and they were kinda hard to dial in.very loud,amazing sustain lots of attack but kinda hard sounding/feeling.
I've heard Crav kits sound good live and recorded.maybe it was just that particular kit? dunno
love the snare drums
sold them and bought another Gretsch kit. one of the limited anniversary rock kits..the Charlie Watts antique maple looking one.had my tech re edge them..sounds great.
.

[chrisso]

I rented an Ash Crav and it sounded fabulous in the studio.
I will say it's a very clean, pure sound.
I do overall prefer a warmer, more characterful drum sound, which is where we agree on Gretsch (and where I'd place the N&C Horizon).

[Jax]

I had a feeling there would be no escaping Gretsch. The only real experience I have with them is jamming with a power trio several times on their no show drummer's Maple Renown. It was ok, but didn't wow me. In a shop, I played a New Classic tom right alongside my MC tom and they sounded the same.

Years ago I almost traded my Maple Customs for a stop sign badge Gretsch kit , knowing it was the kit one of the kits that everyone touts so highly, but once again, the toms sounded almost identical to the Yamaha's. And the kick was blah, to my surprise.

If Gretsch is the answer, I'm already there with my MC's. However, I don't find the MC's "rocking" enough.

But just out of curiosity, a tweaked out Gretsch means what exactly? What kind of magic does a good tech do on the edges? What else can a good drum tech do to sweeten an already good kit? Sealant?? Thinking I might tweak the MC a little, even if it ain't quite the Rock kit I'm questing for. The kick could use some help.

I have no idea how to demo a Trick drum kit, having never seen one in any drum shop. But they are calling to me. Will check out DFO for answers.

Is Tama even worth mentioning?

[surfspank]

I think something that has been lost on a lot of drummers these days, with all of the marketing and endorsements of certain brands of gear, is Rock used to be more about the attitude of the player. NOT about what brand of gear they were playing. I love playing Rock, I am in a Rock Band for that reason not for the brand name on the gear being used.
Jax, I'd say you have more than enough in your arsenal to play rock drums and all of the sales crap that flies around these threads is confusing what's important. That is this, good Rock bands need solid Drummers who can play the Drums. Not a specific sounding kit, nor a brand name to endorse. They need a beat over all else.

[RoundBadge]

yeah that's kind of a given isn't it?
w/ a good player it doesn't mean jack.
this is a gear forum after all

Originally Posted by surfspank

I think something that has been lost on a lot of drummers these days, with all of the marketing and endorsements of certain brands of gear, is Rock used to be more about the attitude of the player. NOT about what brand of gear they were playing. I love playing Rock, I am in a Rock Band for that reason not for the brand name on the gear being used.
Jax, I'd say you have more than enough in your arsenal to play rock drums and all of the sales crap that flies around these threads is confusing what's important. That is this, good Rock bands need solid Drummers who can play the Drums. Not a specific sounding kit, nor a brand name to endorse. They need a beat over all else.

[surfspank]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

yeah that's kind of a given isn't it?
w/ a good player it doesn't mean jack.
this is a gear forum after all

You'd think it would be a given. But I feel it is buried deep under the gear and is worth mentioning for the people that might be missing that point. It is a thread about loving Rock Drumming after all. I still go to shows to watch the the players and listen to the music, not the gear. I think Jax has everything he needs with what he has, is that somehow ridiculous?

[biggator6]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I rented an Ash Crav and it sounded fabulous in the studio.
I will say it's a very clean, pure sound.
I do overall prefer a warmer, more characterful drum sound, which is where we agree on Gretsch (and where I'd place the N&C Horizon).

Yeah, well .. I'm jealous - N&C and Crav would probably be two of my holy grail kits if money was no object (and I needed two more expensive kits).

Is the Horizon the steam-bent shell kit? or the ply?
"-)

[chrisso]

It's the first ply kit they made. Horizontal ply actually. Star Series is the 1 ply kit.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by surfspank

You'd think it would be a given. But I feel it is buried deep under the gear and is worth mentioning for the people that might be missing that point. It is a thread about loving Rock Drumming after all. I still go to shows to watch the the players and listen to the music, not the gear. I think Jax has everything he needs with what he has, is that somehow ridiculous?

I think almost all contemporary kits sound the same, therefore there's not much point chopping and changing. However if you look hard enough, and go back to vintage kits especially, you do find sets that are good at one thing in particular.
Personally, I don't find the Stop Sign Grestch kits sound the same as modern Yamaha.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by surfspank

You'd think it would be a given. But I feel it is buried deep under the gear and is worth mentioning for the people that might be missing that point. It is a thread about loving Rock Drumming after all. I still go to shows to watch the the players and listen to the music, not the gear. I think Jax has everything he needs with what he has, is that somehow ridiculous?

Not here to argue
No time
Guy asked a question about drumbs
I answered

[sameal]

I just traded in my shitty pulse kit for cash to buy up a frankenslinger' kit.
that is a pieced together slingerland. it's still in the shop though :(
haven't had alot of time lately to devote to it, but it's coming along.

i grabbed two marching bass drums a 20 and a 22. the 20 i bought first but it was kinda messed up and i parted it for the 22". now the 22 is in excellent shape, but i have to clean it up, and stain it. some dufus painted the hoops and left the wrapping adhesive on the shell. it's all virgin except the two eyehook holes.

then i grabbed a 1950's slinger marching snare. I'm just needing some rust removed and some skins on that one. i kept the pulse steel because it actually sounded o.k. and i have my old pearl snare still.

and i got 3 marching toms which I'm in love with. 1970's era chrome over wood. there the only thing ready to go with this kit.

currently building a rack for it all. but i got a feeling it's gonna put the roll in the rock.

[surfspank]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I think almost all contemporary kits sound the same, therefore there's not much point chopping and changing. However if you look hard enough, and go back to vintage kits especially, you do find sets that are good at one thing in particular.
Personally, I don't find the Stop Sign Grestch kits sound the same as modern Yamaha.

Definitely, but the point I'm trying to make is that the difference in sound shouldn't matter. To me, that is the true spirit of being a Rock Drummer. Great records and great sounds have been made from a lot of different sources in a lot of different places at a lot of different times. Not one specific brand in one specific era. If it stops and ends with one kit and one sound by one Drummer that is stagnation and Rock is dead.
In my opinion, the beauty of being a Rock Musician is the freedom that it has to evolve and it's lack of hard set rules when it comes to what works and what doesn't and with whom. Again, this is a point I feel is being buried under the quest for better gear and hard competition between businesses and brands for the consumer dollar. In that mindset, Jax has more than enough to get a great Rock Drum sound...he doesn't really need the Gretsch (I believe that is the correct spelling, check yours.) Does that make sense?

Gotta ditch this for today and get ready for a gig tonight. Great sound guy at the venue, so I'm really looking forward to it. I'll take a great sound guy over anything when I'm playing live. Nothing kills a kit's sound quicker than a guy that doesn't know what to do with it.

[surfspank]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Not hear to argue
No time
Guy asked a question about drumbs
I answered

No argument here. It's all good. Just thought you might need a little clarification of my point. I can be vague in my rush to type.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by surfspank

Definitely, but the point I'm trying to make is that the difference in sound shouldn't matter.

The sound matters to the player, that's why we're all playing different makes of kit. Why did you think we were playing different kits?

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by surfspank

In my opinion, the beauty of being a Rock Musician is the freedom that it has to evolve and it's lack of hard set rules when it comes to what works and what doesn't and with whom.

Hmm, there definitely are unwritten rules, sort of standards and unless you are one of a handful of genius mavericks each generation throws up, you'd better be aware of those rules.
Turn up to a recording session for a rock album with an 18" bass drum and only one snare and it's likely the producer will be on the phone to the nearest drum rental company almost straight away.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by surfspank

In my opinion, the beauty of being a Rock Musician is the freedom that it has to evolve and it's lack of hard set rules when it comes to what works and what doesn't and with whom. Again, this is a point I feel is being buried under the quest for better gear and hard competition between businesses and brands for the consumer dollar. In that mindset, Jax has more than enough to get a great Rock Drum sound...he doesn't really need the Gretsch

I think there are a few contradictory points in your statement above. If the freedom to evolve and lack of rules is what being a Rock drummer is all about, then surely searching for a particular sound that fits my approach is exactly in the Rock spirit of things. Yes, it's gear. Gear is tools. Tools are what we use to achieve the expression. I'm only cool with shoveling money into the business that can give me the drums I need to achieve what I'm after. Obviously, I haven't found it yet.

While it's true, my current drums can sound great for Rock, this is more about what is enjoyable to play, and sounds great for Rock. It needs to feel and sound like what's in my head when I'm back there behind the kit.

As I said earlier (which summed it up nicely):

Originally Posted by Jax

If Gretsch is the answer, I'm already there with my MC's. However, I don't find the MC's "rocking" enough.

By now this thread is on the verge of being hijacked with by another topic that deserves its own thread. Surfspank, if you want to talk about it in another thread, you're more than welcome and I'll join in. I think it's clear what this thread is about.

[chrisso]

People are always searching for better tools. No harm in that at all.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by surfspank

You'd think it would be a given. But I feel it is buried deep under the gear and is worth mentioning for the people that might be missing that point.

nobody is missing that point

It is a thread about loving Rock Drumming after all

no, it isn't

the OP asked about rock drum kits

[johnnywellas]

Is Sonor any good?

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by johnnywellas

Is Sonor any good?

Yes .especially like the de-lite series for recording.

[Grumblefoot]

I really liked the Tama Starclasaic Bubingas the few times I have played them. I have a set of Pearl Masters Studio (birch) that I love. I used to have an old set of Luddies that were good as well. I guess I don't have an answer except that everything has it's place, and I tend to get into drums too much...

[Jax]

Sonor Delite kits are amazing, but maybe a little to precious for gigging, which is another thing I like about the Trick kits. They won't easily damage or get scuffed, and any gashes in the finish can be smoothed out to looking new again the factory. That said, I'm very careful with my drums and they're all in great shape. But with a finish on the Trick floor tom below, I wouldn't really care what happened (to a certain extent).

[surfspank]

Originally Posted by Jax

The second point, for the purposes of this thread, is bogus and misses the truth that any drummer who finds it worth doing enjoys playing the drums. That 2nd point is an answer to a different question that doesn't need to be brought up here. This is a thread for people who love playing drums, especially Rock drums.

Probably me reading this wrong. I didn't realize love of Rock Drumming and love of a particular brand went hand in hand. Feel free to attack this point boys.
I promise, I'll fit in now since I've offended you all by thinking Yamaha's are fine for Rock Drumming.
Let me tell you what is best for you Jax, even though I haven't heard a single note of your material, nor have any clue what your personal tastes in sound and drummers are. I'm playing a 95 DW Collectors. Best Drums I've ever heard and don't really need too much tweeking to make them sound good, loud or soft. They are great for live gigs because they are easy and quick to set up and tear down. Sound guys love them. Hard or soft they record all volumes well. They also keep their tuning well.
Their shortcoming, well sadly they fall into the Chrisso's Contemporary Category and sound the same as everything else out there. Even though the grain selection is slightly different from Drum to Drum. Every tree is the same these days, don't ya know, and grain has nothing to do with how a wood Drum resonates does it?
Just a quick question for everybody attacking my opinions, since I'm not into getting into peeing matches with guys that have collectively over 20,000 posts around here...I just don't have that sort of time on my hands, I'm in a band.
Since playing live (studio or stage) to me, is a very important part of Rock Drumming and still on topic according to my interpretation on the subject as presented by the OP. What kit did you play at your last ROCK gig and when was it?

Me- My DW's twice last week. Both Club gigs. Very well received. Trick drums would have to kick some serious butt to de-throne these in my books.

PS. See ya'll in a couple of days.