A ******* Rock Kit! Trick drums?

[Pawel]

What about a nice vintage Ludwig Stainless Steel kit?

[Jax]

Originally Posted by surfspank

Probably me reading this wrong. I didn't realize love of Rock Drumming and love of a particular brand went hand in hand. Feel free to attack this point boys.
I promise, I'll fit in now since I've offended you all by thinking Yamaha's are fine for Rock Drumming.
Let me tell you what is best for you Jax, even though I haven't heard a single note of your material, nor have any clue what your personal tastes in sound and drummers are. I'm playing a 95 DW Collectors. Best Drums I've ever heard and don't really need too much tweeking to make them sound good, loud or soft. They are great for live gigs because they are easy and quick to set up and tear down. Sound guys love them. Hard or soft they record all volumes well. They also keep their tuning well.
Their shortcoming, well sadly they fall into the Chrisso's Contemporary Category and sound the same as everything else out there. Even though the grain selection is slightly different from Drum to Drum. Every tree is the same these days, don't ya know, and grain has nothing to do with how a wood Drum resonates does it?
Just a quick question for everybody attacking my opinions, since I'm not into getting into peeing matches with guys that have collectively over 20,000 posts around here...I just don't have that sort of time on my hands, I'm in a band.
Since playing live (studio or stage) to me, is a very important part of Rock Drumming and still on topic according to my interpretation on the subject as presented by the OP. What kit did you play at your last ROCK gig and when was it?

Me- My DW's twice last week. Both Club gigs. Very well received. Trick drums would have to kick some serious butt to de-throne these in my books.

PS. See ya'll in a couple of days.

Wow. All that is too cynical for me to work with. Come back when you're feeling better and realize that no one was personally attacking you.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by Pawel

What about a nice vintage Ludwig Stainless Steel kit?

Never tried one, but I've heard them in person and read some internet lore and reviews. I think Roundbadge has (or had) one.

From what I've heard, they're heavy as hell, super loud, expensive and hard to find. For gigging, the weight factor rules them out. Sonically, they're amazing! They retain that Ludwig sound regardless of shell material.

I guess it comes down to their well-established drum designs, because I've never heard a Luddy that didn't sound like a Luddy, although I've heard some of their crappier kits with less of that particular character.

[chrisso]

I think metal toms and bass drums are loud, and can be harsh sounding.
Never seen a metal kit on a studio date...... even in hundreds of photos of great players, and on documentary DVD's.
That's not a 'no', but if you are looking for a great sounding contemporary drum kit for the studio, I would most likely follow the lead of the great sounding contemporary drummers - all of whom play fairly standard wood drums.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Pawel

What about a nice vintage Ludwig Stainless Steel kit?

I've had two big ludwig 70's steel kits.
w the right heads[i prefered coated emperors top and bottom] and careful tuning/damping they can work in the studio.
for certain things they were really cool.
yes loud/hard and not a lot of warmth and body .
Jon Theodre used on em a couple Mars Volta records..sounded good.but then he could make anything sound good.
never a go to for me.sold them.

[Pawel]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I
Jon Theodre used on em a couple Mars Volta records..

Exactly, I was thinking about him when I suggested the steel kit.
His drum sound with One Day As A Lion is great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwBjZLzY7Eo

Another different kit: acrylic?

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Pawel

Another different kit: acrylic?

vista's are very cool for some things..some guys hate to record them.
I like them kinda wet n floppy w/ pinstripes or emperors.wouldn't call it a great all rounder for the studio though

[Pawel]

Jax, I don't know your level of drumming technique, probably you already know this so I don't want to sound as a prick teacher, but to get the most tone and sustain at high volumes you have to play "out of the drums", not dig into them. The harder you hit, the more refined your technique has to be not to choke the drums, I struggled a lot with this. I use my Oaks also for rock drumming and a Coated Ambassador + clear Ambassador + proper tuning give me lots of tone, volume and sustain also when I hit them hard (even too much sustain sometimes, especially on 14" and 16" suspended toms). I agree with you that they sound better at lower dynamics, but I think that they don't lose much tone when hard pounded. Sticks and heads choiches are very important with oaks.

Since you already like Yamaha and have all the hardware, you can try the new Rock Tour. 9-Ply Big Leaf Mahogany: they sound HUGE, very strong fundamental, lots of bass, very full sound. The textured ash finish (8-ply) is VERY nice, like the Phoenix kit.
They're very light to carry and the price is low! With the stock pinstripes you're good to go. I don't know how they behave under the mikes, but live in the music shop they sounded very good, I was seriously thinking about buying a kit for my rock project.

"If I didn''t know what the kit was and I was only hearing it, I would have thought it was something like a 1970''s Ludwig – it had that thick, rocky, fat (sorry, phat) sound. However, as 1970''s kits tend to have rather ''interesting'' build quality, it sounded more like a very consistent, tweaked kit from the ''70''s."

Mike Dolbear DRUMS | Yamaha Rock Tour kit

Rock Tour - Rock Tour - Acoustic Drum Sets - Drums - Musical Instruments - Products - Yamaha United States

[Jax]

Originally Posted by Pawel

Jax, I don't know your level of drumming technique, probably you already know this so I don't want to sound as a prick teacher,

No prick teacher attitude taken here! I appreciate a good open discussion of anything related to drums.

Originally Posted by Pawel

but to get the most tone and sustain at high volumes you have to play "out of the drums", not dig into them. The harder you hit, the more refined your technique has to be not to choke the drums, I struggled a lot with this.

I think of "digging in" to mean playing with little or no rebound, which some drummers use as a technique or their only technique. That will definitely choke a drum, but at the same time it can produce a solid (though short) punch. It could also mean hitting so hard that the tone is choked by sudden, massive air pressure before it can exit the drum. I'd be interested to know what you mean.

I'm a rebound player who hits hard when it's appropriate, which is quite often for a couple of the bands I'm in and not so much for another. Looking back at this thread, I see that I might've painted myself as a crusher with no other dynamic feel, which is not the case. But I do love to play that way.

Originally Posted by Pawel

I use my Oaks also for rock drumming and a Coated Ambassador + clear Ambassador + proper tuning give me lots of tone, volume and sustain also when I hit them hard (even too much sustain sometimes, especially on 14" and 16" suspended toms). I agree with you that they sound better at lower dynamics, but I think that they don't lose much tone when hard pounded. Sticks and heads choiches are very important with oaks.

I thought about this thread over the weekend when I made a couple of changes that made the kit sound a lot better to me. First, plastic tip sticks are not a good combination with clear Emperors on the Oaks. In my stick bag all this time were a pair of good old wood tip Vic Firth American Classic Rock's and they made the tone from the toms open up. The oval tips really help as well. I'd been using Pro Mark 747's before and in comparison, they seem to be shaped and weighted a bit like chopsticks. I've used them for a long time but I don't think I'm going back.

Second, I put a clear Ambassador on the 10" tom and it opened up tonally, sounding less choked than with the Emperor. But that drum still seems slightly choked sounding to me, regardless of technique, sticks or heads. It works well enough, though.

Originally Posted by Pawel

Since you already like Yamaha and have all the hardware, you can try the new Rock Tour. 9-Ply Big Leaf Mahogany: they sound HUGE, very strong fundamental, lots of bass, very full sound. The textured ash finish (8-ply) is VERY nice, like the Phoenix kit.

Hmm, if they're the drums I briefly played at Guitar Center once, I didn't hear anything that grabbed my ear, but I'd try them again. They might've been Tour Custom (maple) instead of Rock Custom (mahogany and ash). I'm going to look for the textured ash finish and report back if I find one. Who knows? It might be what I'm looking for. I'm kind of a Yamaha nut.