beater position on larger kicks

[Jax]

When I went from a 22" kick to a 24, I raised the beater to meet closer to the center of the head and it hasn't felt right to me ever since. I feel like I'm relearning how to get the right performance out of myself and the pedal instead of playing comfortably. The obvious solution would be to lower it back to where it was, but I'm niggled by how off center it'll be. I've always played bass drum with the beater hitting as near the middle of the head as it could.

Tonally, a drum hit off center will produce more head resonance than when hit in the middle. However, on a kick drum I'm not so sure this is what I'm after. Of course, I'm going to try repositioning the beater back to where it was on my smaller kick, but what do you guys do when transitioning from one kick size to the other? Do you adjust the beater height or leave it alone, and what's your reasoning for either decision?

I've been playing for many years, but I never really experimented with where the beater hits the head, except on the horizontal plane because I have a double pedal and tried getting them both to hit near center.

[C.r.a.p.]

I don't hear much difference when my beater is dead center or 1,5 inch off center.

I prefer an off center beater because the rebound feels better in that area.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Jax

When I went from a 22" kick to a 24, I raised the beater to meet closer to the center of the head

when you say 'raised the beater' do you mean you just made the stick longer? Because I would think that would be weird - that will affect the actual playing of the pedal, the stroke length, the rebound, everything.

I have a kit with an 18" bass drum and I got a little thing to raise the entire drum up so the beater strikes in the middle.

perhaps someone makes the opposite product, something that raises the "floor" under the pedal attached to a large drum, so the pedal is 'normal', but strikes in the center of the drum? Might be possible to build one.

Of course that would be weird too, in the sense that you might have to sit higher and your right and left feet would be different heights off the ground...

I think it's one reason why I never cared for 24s.

Anyway if it were me, I would just 'deal' with it hitting a little off center.

[chrisso]

In theory, striking the drum dead centre is not what you want to do anyway.
That's the deadest part of the drum.
I admit, I strike there a lot myself, but with bass drum I don't think off-centre hits are anything to worry about.
I use a pillow or padding to control the sustain and focus of my bass drums.

[Dr. Mordo]

And bear in mind that all the 24" and 26" kicks recorded have very likely had the beater hitting off center. So it can't be that big of an issue.

[chrisso]

^^ Yep ^^

[Jax]

Originally Posted by Dr. Mordo

And bear in mind that all the 24" and 26" kicks recorded have very likely had the beater hitting off center. So it can't be that big of an issue.

Thank you, that really puts it into perspective, and I don't mean that facetiously. Many (most?) of my favorite drumming references are from back in the day, in a range of 20-50 years ago.

I think I'll just lower the damned beater and go back to how I've always played instead of teaching myself an odd-feeling new stroke.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by joeq

when you say 'raised the beater' do you mean you just made the stick longer? Because I would think that would be weird - that will affect the actual playing of the pedal, the stroke length, the rebound, everything.

Yes and yes it does affect everything. Not worth the trouble. The only way it could be worth the trouble is if I find it sounds much better hitting the middle of the head, which is unlikely, come to think of it. This is a relief. I had been tormenting myself thinking I need to adapt to the drum and pedal, but that probably isn't what's needed.

[dylanr]

I'll throw something in here to the contrary.

I made the move from 22" to use primarily 24" kick drums about 5 years ago. I'd agree that you don't need to get the beater dead center, but I'd suggest you will get the most out of the drum if you extend the beater out at least a little from where you'd have it for a 22" drum so that it does get nearer the center.

Fwiw, my advice would be to at least give extending the beater a try for a couple weeks. It will probably feel weird at first to have that much "swing" with the pedal, and you may have to relearn or adjust some techniques a little, but once you get accustomed to it I think you'll never look back. You may want to revisit your pedal tension too if you go ahead with a beater length adjustment.

24" kicks simply have a different feel to play. It took me at least 6 months to feel 100% at home on my first 24" and adapting my pedal. Another interesting thing is once you master the 24", it's really easy to go back to a 22" or 20" without any fuss.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by dylanr

I'd agree that you don't need to get the beater dead center, but I'd suggest you will get the most out of the drum if you extend the beater out at least a little from where you'd have it for a 22" drum so that it does get nearer the center.

Shortly after starting the thread, I lowered the beater to approximately where it was on the 22" and it's much more comfortable and predictable. The stroke is less powerful, but now the only (re)adaptation is remembering how much added power is needed to achieve the same volume as when the beater was closer to center. However, it doesn't take much more physical effort.

Originally Posted by dylanr

Fwiw, my advice would be to at least give extending the beater a try for a couple weeks. It will probably feel weird at first to have that much "swing" with the pedal, and you may have to relearn or adjust some techniques a little, but once you get accustomed to it I think you'll never look back. You may want to revisit your pedal tension too if you go ahead with a beater length adjustment.

I did all of the above and played it that way for about 3 months. I was getting decent at using adjusted technique, but it never felt right so I went back to how it was. It also sounds better, perhaps because the beater is hitting a fresher, less battered part of the head, or maybe because it sounds better hitting off center on this kick. Or both!

Originally Posted by dylanr

Another interesting thing is once you master the 24", it's really easy to go back to a 22" or 20" without any fuss.

I don't know that I ever mastered the 24" (or the 22", or any bass drum for that matter!) but it sure feels easier with my pedal set up the way it had always been.

[dosilegecko]

I'm not sure I drink the "don't play the center" kool-aid. Most other drums sound like absolute crap when you hit off-center. They resonate wildly and have barely any attack. One of my friends always hits the snare off center and it sounds like absolute garbage. It sounds like hes playing without any authority or confidence. He does it out of bad habit, not out of taste mind you.

Of course a little off center is okay, and the "grace area" is larger on a kick head simply because of the size, but trying hitting somewhere obscure on the kick head with a stick, it'll sound pathetic in comparison to a nice thwack to the center.

[chrisso]

Exactly.
I think we're talking 'a little off centre', not much closer to the rim.
If you play a two handed fill on snare or tom you are almost certain to be playing a little off center aren't you. It all sounds good to me.

[Jax]

^This^

A bandmate tonight said he thought the kick sounded noticeably better, and I hadn't explained what changed. Good to know it sounds better out front as well. Also good to know my bandmates are actually listening to the sound of the band and what we're doing. I always suspected they were, but couldn't be sure. I still have to corral them from time to time and get us focused.

The beater is hitting the head about an an inch lower than it had been.

[JohnRoberts]

Originally Posted by Jax

^This^

A bandmate tonight said he thought the kick sounded noticeably better, and I hadn't explained what changed. Good to know it sounds better out front as well. Also good to know my bandmates are actually listening to the sound of the band and what we're doing. I always suspected they were, but couldn't be sure. I still have to corral them from time to time and get us focused.

The beater is hitting the head about an an inch lower than it had been.

This is the bottom line... how does it sound?

Hitting dead center is not dead... Drums have more than one resonance series. When struck dead center you excite the fundamental resonance series with a peak (maximum head movement) at that center node. Another higher pitched series of resonances has a null or dead node at the exact center (no movement), so hitting exactly dead center will not excite that higher resonance series.

Without getting all technical.. hitting dead center will make the lower "thud" sound, while striking half-way between the center and edge will make more complex higher pitched sounds (and hitting even closer to the edge, makes higher notes yet).

Generally being a little off will excite the resonance that it is closest too, or both, when splitting the difference, with a little less output power.

it seems a longer arm on the beater might dial it in to hit center again, but more important is how does it feel and how does it sound?

While I try not to have opinions about voicing kits, it seems the object of the kick drum it get the "thud" sound so beating the center should be useful to maximize the fundamental, and minimize other resonances.

You could experiment about what those other resonances sound like by intentionally setting up the beater to strike off center, but I expect that would be disappointing.

JR

[Jax]

Originally Posted by JohnRoberts

This is the bottom line... how does it sound?


it seems a longer arm on the beater might dial it in to hit center again, but more important is how does it feel and how does it sound? JR

It sounds nearly the same as when the beater was hitting closer to the middle of the head, except with slightly increased though pleasing overtones.

Feel wise, the only difference between the 22 and this drum is that there is more drum head to work with. It is very slightly less controllable but doesn't affect my playing unless I feel like being a slob, which is no different from how it always was.

[dosilegecko]

I'm coming back here with some new thoughts after trying some new things and pondering what I've learned here...

So my usual kick is a 22x22" DW, the beaters I use (Iron Cobra, Dw9000, or Pacific BOA depending on my mood) are at the same height, a bit above center. I LOVE how this drum FEELS and sounds as I play it. I have speed, control, power, the works on this drum with these pedals.

Now, in my practice space, I have a 24" kick. I use the same pedal there (usually the Pacific BOAs) and the beater is at the same height as I set it at my house. Now, the beater hits directly center. I find myself struggling to play some of my quicker and more complicated patterns and the kick actually sounds weaker. The feedback from the pedal just isn't there. Initially I thought it was a tuning problem but after reading this thread and thinking about it I moved the beater down a little and voila, a world of difference. The kick sounds lively, I have my control back (feels different still) and overall the kick is more playable.

Thank you guys for educating me and changing my mind grapes.
..and helping me get my sanity back. It sucks when you can play something one day and then can't the next (playing at home then at the practice space).

[portishead]

It's not feeling right because you have not changed the physical weight of the beater but by raising it up you have changed the balance (think about choking up on a baseball bat before you swing it, feels lighter that way). It's probably feeling more "heavy" to you because the beater is further away from the rotating center of the pedal. I would say back your pedal spring(s) off a little bit at a time to compensate until it feels more like it was before then you don't need to worry about how it sounds because you'll be in the center.