The Most Generic Kit Known to Rock.

[Bootstrap]

I am putting together a kit for guest drummers. So I want it to be very generic rock kit.

The problem is I am not a drummer.

I want it to be a very professional yet generic kit. I know what I would do for other instruments since I play those. If I was doing this for guitars, I would get a Strat and Les Paul Standard With a JCM800 and a Dual Rectifier. For bass a P-Bass with a SVT Classic. Vocals some SM58. All standard and generic.

With drums I am lost. I have no idea what is consider industry standards or at least very common sizes and models.

I asked a drummer friend of mine and he mentioned
Ludwig Supra-phonic LM402 6.5x14"
A-Custom Symbols

What else would you guys put in the most generic kit known to rock?

[corworld]

If you want it totally generic, make sure you have a 22inch kick drum with a DW pedal. If you really want it even more generic make sure the entire kit is DW or Yamaha.

[Mylesh]

Generic rock sizes are 22x18, 12x11,13x12, and 16x16 with a 14x6.5 snare. That being said, most people would prefer 22x18, 10x8, 12x9, 14x14, 16x16, and a 14x6.5 snare.

[biggator6]

Originally Posted by Mylesh

Generic rock sizes are 22x18, 12x11,13x12, and 16x16

12x11 and 13x12? Who still sells those sizes?

Pick up an old 3-ply Ludwig kit, old Slingerland or Rogers... tune em and smile.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by biggator6

12x11 and 13x12? Who still sells those sizes?

Pick up an old 3-ply Ludwig kit, old Slingerland or Rogers... tune em and smile.

Ludwig has wacky size choices in their Classic Maple kit. The power tom sizes look good to me for rock, although I think 12x10 and 13x11 are more my style. I really like the idea of a 15x13 followed by more standard 16x16 or 16x14. Would love to try a 12x11 and 13x12 someday.

[biggator6]

OH yeah.. you can order just about anything - but nobody uses those sizes in their normal kits anymore... 'power toms' are way out of fashion.

Besides.. CMs are nice.. Legacy are nice...but OLD Ludwigs are the ticket.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by corworld

If you want it totally generic, make sure you have a 22inch kick drum with a DW pedal. If you really want it even more generic make sure the entire kit is DW or Yamaha.

It's true that DW and Yamaha are some of the most widely seen and recorded brands in public and in the studio (along with Ludwig, Tama, and Pearl, for that matter), but with tiny effort and a little amount of knowledge, a non-generic kit could be had from either of them.

For example, most people are playing maple kits. With Yamaha, other wood choices are 100% oak (which I don't think anyone else currently offers) and Kapur, another non-standard wood for drums. With DW, choices can be made in the orientation of the grain that drastically affect the drum's tone and pitch.

In answer to the original post, I'd say the most ubiquitous kit in studios today is Gretsch Catalina Maple, which IMO is nothing special and could be called generic.

I wouldn't want to offer a run of the mill kit in the studio unless I had no choice. Bands will be more likely to come back to a place where they remember getting distinctive, awesome drum sounds.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by biggator6

OH yeah.. you can order just about anything - but nobody uses those sizes in their normal kits anymore... 'power toms' are way out of fashion.

Besides.. CMs are nice.. Legacy are nice...but OLD Ludwigs are the ticket.

The only thing I would dare call a drawback on older Ludwig kits is that they don't sound modern unless you go out of your way to make them so. But that's true for some of their newer line as well.

[biggator6]

Originally Posted by Jax

The only thing I would dare call a drawback on older Ludwig kits is that they don't sound modern unless you go out of your way to make them so. But that's true for some of their newer line as well.

You can sample-replace old drums just as easily as new ones, right?

Hey, you said you wanted 'modern'!
"-)

[Goliath|Audio]

You gotta have a Ludwig Supraphonic 6.5 x 14 snare.

Tune it right and

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Jax

In answer to the original post, I'd say the most ubiquitous kit in studios today is Gretsch Catalina Maple, which IMO is nothing special and could be called generic.

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen one anywhere, onstage, in studio.
Not to say you are wrong, because 99% of the studios I visit don't have a studio kit.
But regarding studio drummers, I would agree with many here that the most widely used and respected brands are DW and Yamaha.
Those are also the brands most drum rental companies have top of their kit list.
I'm not a huge fan of the DW sound, but many people seem to make it work.
I prefer Yamaha, but both companies make good quality drums and offer fantastic hardware.
Generic sizes would be 22" bass drum, 10", 12", 14" and 16" toms.
I agree with the Ludwig Supra 6.5" x 14" snare recommendation. It's not too expensive and delivers a high quality sound.
Cymbals are very subjective. For a studio I wouldn't go with anything too bright or loud - which is sort of where I would place the A Customs.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by biggator6

You can sample-replace old drums just as easily as new ones, right?

Hey, you said you wanted 'modern'!
"-)

I'd take a well-recorded, real kit played by a real drummer that sounds like it would fit on a 70's Yes record in the context of a modern metal band over samples anyday. But very few metal bands go for that sound!

That's a whole 'nother kettle o' fish.

[biggator6]

Originally Posted by Jax

I'd take a well-recorded, real kit played by a real drummer that sounds like it would fit on a 70's Yes record in the context of a modern metal band over samples anyday. But very few metal bands go for that sound!

That's a whole 'nother kettle o' fish.

Me too.. and I'd rather get 90% of a sample-replaced modern sound with actual drums than to do sample-replacement.

Chris, the Catalinas DO get a lot of use over here from what I've heard... one of the regulars at DFO is a Nashville session guy - and he does some simple work to them (edges, sealant) and says he can make them work very well. Of course, he also DOES have Gretsch USA customs when needed.

[surfspank]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen one anywhere, onstage, in studio.
Not to say you are wrong, because 99% of the studios I visit don't have a studio kit.
But regarding studio drummers, I would agree with many here that the most widely used and respected brands are DW and Yamaha.
Those are also the brands most drum rental companies have top of their kit list.
I'm not a huge fan of the DW sound, but many people seem to make it work.
I prefer Yamaha, but both companies make good quality drums and offer fantastic hardware.
Generic sizes would be 22" bass drum, 10", 12", 14" and 16" toms.
I agree with the Ludwig Supra 6.5" x 14" snare recommendation. It's not too expensive and delivers a high quality sound.
Cymbals are very subjective. For a studio I wouldn't go with anything too bright or loud - which is sort of where I would place the A Customs.

Me, DW Collectors 22" Kick, 10",12"14"16" toms. Play them pretty much every day. What I really like about the set up is that you can break it down into a Jazz or Cocktail Kit, or play the whole shebang depending on the gig. It's versatile and anybody who has taken these babies completely apart, reskinned and tuned them, has to know how well made and easy to work on they are. Not sure why you don't like the sound, but when I was buying them it was down to old Ayottes and DW. After a few years I still have trouble finding anything wrong with my decision to go with DW. I still feel rather lucky to be able to play such a kit.
May I be so bold as to ask what it is about the sound you don't like? Because I really love what this kit does and how it plays.

PS To the OP: I hear Jax has a line on a beautiful kit with gold hardware on another thread. He might be the guy to talk to.

[abechap024]

Generic?? Thats easy. Yamaha. I don't even play drums, but I have eyes.


But you don't want generic. I think you want versatile (haha don't you love when people think for you??)

You want a kit that every drummer that comes through your door can say...oh! I can play that!

Copy the Rockband drum kit. Serious. Doesn't get more versatile than that. Then just add something cool, that doesn't get in peoples way but makes your kit not so boring. Cool colors....cool splash....a gong behind it Keith moon style. or a cowbell and then make it a studio rule that in every song it has to be hit not more, not less than once. (Like in The Wizard)


PEACE!

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by surfspank

May I be so bold as to ask what it is about the sound you don't like? Because I really love what this kit does and how it plays.

I find it tubby and unexciting.
In my defence I regularly play Camco, Noble & Cooley and Craviotto, which I feel are all superior sounding drums.
In DW's defence, I admit some of my favourite drummers are DW players and their drums sound great.
I love their hardware. Whenever I have to rent drums I choose DW or Yamaha, because I know they'll deliver industry standard results.

[surfspank]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I find it tubby and unexciting.
In my defence I regularly play Camco, Noble & Cooley and Craviotto, which I feel are all superior sounding drums.
In DW's defence, I admit some of my favourite drummers are DW players and their drums sound great.
I love their hardware. Whenever I have to rent drums I choose DW or Yamaha, because I know they'll deliver industry standard results.

Fair enough, but this is the absolute first time I've ever had anybody describe DW's as tubby and unexciting. (There's a joke in there I'm not going to touch since I don't know how well my light natured humour will translate over the computer...has to do with the player though.)
I actually get a lot of compliments on my kit sound, maybe it's just the logo people like...or the way I tune them.
One could argue that Camco, Noble and Cooley, and Craviotto deliver the same "industry standard" results. Depending on which part of the industry and which standards are being applied, and by whom. It's all very subjective, but thanks for answering my question.

[chrisso]

I find Camco, N&C and Craviotto have more character, more personality.
I would describe their sound as beyond 'industry standard'.
Bottom line for me..........
Just about all the modern made, mainstream drums sound great and record very well. I've just never been into the mainstream sound if I can find that extra 10% with something else.

[downtownjim]

here in France, lot of Yams in studios, DW for live perfs.

I use 68 Pearl and 64 Olympic (Premier) kits, Paiste Giants and Zyns. When I go to studios with this little english 20 bass kick, it's sounding exactly like euro pops of the 60's, that's my goal, with a D12 and a pair of U47 or similar. Very usefull too for tamla/muscle shoals 60's covers, with a gretsch snare. The surprise with closed miking, it's sound nearly like a Yam!
I was owned 90's yam kits (white mapple shells U2 designed) they were going very well in a "standard" mix...

My 60's ludwig kit (stolen or aiport loose? last year) was not very usuable with DTD technic.(needs very good converters and preamps)

I project to own a gretsch kit, vintage shells I wish.

regards from France

[BLUElightCory]

Originally Posted by Mylesh

Generic rock sizes are 22x18, 12x11,13x12, and 16x16 with a 14x6.5 snare.

The only problem with this is that it's much harder to get a 12" and a 13" tom to sound distinctly different from each other in a mix, compared to a 12" and a 14" tom.

Originally Posted by Mylesh

That being said, most people would prefer 22x18, 10x8, 12x9, 14x14, 16x16, and a 14x6.5 snare.

These diameters I totally agree with - pretty much the standard "rock" starting point.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

The only problem with this is that it's much harder to get a 12" and a 13" tom to sound distinctly different from each other in a mix, compared to a 12" and a 14" tom.

I'll echo and expand on that. With most kits, the tuning range isn't significantly different for 12 and 13" toms. They can be tuned differently enough, but I've always found that it means one of the two will suffer in playability, becoming either too mushy (usually the 13) or too much like hitting a tabletop (the 12). This is even true for some 10 and 12" pairs, so 12 and 13 are that much more problematic, although they are among the most common sizes found on kits.

I've seen old Slingerland kits with two 12's. Not fun!

[dylanr]

Another opinion from down under...

I'm not too sure what Pearl's profile is like where you are, but a Pearl Masters Custom Maple would fit the 'generic' bill perfectly around these parts. 10" 12" 14" 16" 22" and you're done.

The Ludwig SupraPhonic snare is probably the closest thing there is to a generic drum in the sense of it being acceptable quality and versatility for almost any recording situation - reputation wise it's pretty much the Strat of the drum world. For my money the 5" depth (LM400 instead of 402) is more versatile, but a fraction less "generic rock".

Cymbals... probably a set of Zildjian - As or Ks. I don't care for either line particularly, but they'd be closest to generic.

[blindjoni]

Originally Posted by Bootstrap

I am putting together a kit for guest drummers. So I want it to be very generic rock kit.

The problem is I am not a drummer.

I want it to be a very professional yet generic kit. I know what I would do for other instruments since I play those. If I was doing this for guitars, I would get a Strat and Les Paul Standard With a JCM800 and a Dual Rectifier. For bass a P-Bass with a SVT Classic. Vocals some SM58. All standard and generic.

With drums I am lost. I have no idea what is consider industry standards or at least very common sizes and models.

I asked a drummer friend of mine and he mentioned
Ludwig Supra-phonic LM402 6.5x14"
A-Custom Symbols

What else would you guys put in the most generic kit known to rock?

My experience says Yamaha. Whenever I encounter a decent Yammi kit...as well as my own...I know that at least the toms will give a solid and usable full bodied tone...with the proper heads. I mix a lot of kits live and the toms almost always need a lot of help. I often replace kicks. Snares vary with song and style. Also tunig is very crucial for any snare. Many drummers I mix cannot tune their snare for any kind of classic snare sound.

[triple_dre]

Well a standard kit indeed has 12 13 and 16inch toms along with a 22inch kick and 14×6,5 snare.
So that would be a safe bet.
Don't know what pricerange we're talking here. But for a rock setting I still think older Tama Granstar's are some of the best kits out there.

Regarding cymbals, I would say A customs are a good choice.
They aren't that loud or overly bright. Easy to control in a mix.
Zildjian K series would be good too but are darker sounding.
Paiste 2002 series are awesome for rock as well.
Sizes should be somehting like 14" hihat, 16 and 18" crashes and 20" ride.

[The Pressman]

Yamaha.

As if there was any doubt... Hahaha.

I'd go with... 10, 12, 14, 16 inch toms. Makes it easier to tune to different intervals instead of the standard 12 and 13. A 22 inch kick. Coupled with a Ludwig Supraphonic snare drum and Zildjian A's or K's would get you pretty close to what I would call the most generic rock kit. Oh, and Gibraltar hardware and a nice squeaky kick pedal.

[cgarges]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I find Camco, N&C and Craviotto have more character, more personality.
I would describe their sound as beyond 'industry standard'.
Bottom line for me..........
Just about all the modern made, mainstream drums sound great and record very well. I've just never been into the mainstream sound if I can find that extra 10% with something else.

I'm with Chris on this 100%. I've always found DW drums to be immensely over-rated. Of course, I've loved Chris' drum sounds since the late 80s, but I've never, ever been a room with a DW kit that really blew me away and I've played and recorded LOTS of DW drums.

I'm also a pretty hard-core Noble & Cooley fanatic, as I've never herad a Noble & Cooley kit that didn't completely blow me away.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[DamoSyzygy]

Any high quality kit with do the job. Try to go for thin shells if you can, as they tend to have a lower fundamental note.

Pay particular attention to what you're using for drumheads and how you're tuning them.

Brand is practically irrelevant.

[MillM]

The Mapex Saturn series are excellent kits for the money and record exceptionally well.

Shell packs run about £1000-£1200 for Kick, Snare, 2 up and 2 down set up.

[jordanvoth]

My Ayottes have been the house kit here as long as I've been recording and very, very few kits have sounded sweeter than them. Obviously they may not be the greatest for jazz but they're excellent for almost everything.

[DaveUK]

Off topic but moonie used 3, 14 " toms and manged to tune them differently to each other
But back on topic 22 ,10,12 ,16 yamahas would seem a safe bet ,much like their acoustic guitars they just work

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