Thoughts on 70's Gretsch Drums?

[Sherekhan]

I'm looking for a recording drumkit and I'm considering a vintage Gretsch set. I'm familiar with the sound of 60's with RB Gretsch, but I keep hearing people rave about the sound of 70's Gretsch. I want to try them for myself, but want to make sure I know what to look for. So, my question is the following:

When people talk about 70's Gretsch being great recording sets, are they talking about any stop-sign 70's set of drums, or a specific model? I think I can get my hands on a stop-sign set of wrapped drums to try, but I wonder if those are equivalent to the satin-finish unwrapped drums so many cats drool over--I have no clue if they have the same shells underneath, or whether the wrapping makes any significant difference in the sound... Also, if you have experience with both, have you noticed a difference in the sound of 6-ply stop-sign and round badge sets?

It may be a silly question, but I'm a bass player and am out of my element here.

Cheers.

[SK1]

I'm a bassist too

I used to jam with this drummer in L.A. that had an old gretch with the wrapping around the shells. He decided to take the wrapping off and refinish the wood underneath (natural). Then he restored and replaced the hardware.

Holy Crepe ....... that was the LOUDEST set I ever heard in my life.
A real beauty .... WOW. Nice TONE.

And I've worked with the great premeire's, dw's, yamaha recording series, sonar's pre mic'd from the inside .... ect

I've spent alot of time with drummers

GOOD LUCK !!!

[Drumsound]

Wrapped finishes adversely affect the tone of drums. Think about it. Take a nice resonant wood drum shell and then cover it with glue and wrap a hunk of plastic around it. What do you think that will do?

I noticed it as a kid. The first time I ever played a lacquered drum-set I noticed that it sounded different that the other drums I had played. I was much better, I was so happy when i finally got a set of laquered Gretsch drum when I was in college. I still play them and will only get rid of them in my will.

[toolskid]

[QUOTE=Drumsound]Wrapped finishes adversely affect the tone of drums. Think about it. Take a nice resonant wood drum shell and then cover it with glue and wrap a hunk of plastic around it. What do you think that will do?
/QUOTE]


Dude!!! SUPER CLASSICS!!!!!????!!!!!!

[Bob Ross]

I don't know if these are from the stop-sign era (as he was also playing Gretsch during the 60's) but whenever I think of "70's Gretsch Drums" I think of Tony Williams' fusion stuff, like the _Believe It_ album (1975) or the track "Are You The One?" from John McLaughlin's _Electric Guitarist_ album (1977). Bright, resonant toms that speak quickly with a slightly metallic, almost pitched tone...I know that description could seem like the last thing you'd want in a drumkit, but when Tony plays them they just sing!

Of course, Tony Williams could play on a Tiger Emenee drumkit & make it sing...

[kungfugeek]

I have a vintage 70's stop sign maple snare that sounds very nice, not wraped. However, I also have a new Gretsch Catalina Club kit that I think sounds fantastic. I mean the sheel pack is like 400 bux and it sounds like a much much more expensive kit. The rest of my drum budget goes to cymbols and snares.

M

[Bishbashbosh]

Originally Posted by Sherekhan

When people talk about 70's Gretsch being great recording sets, are they talking about any stop-sign 70's set of drums, or a specific model?

The Stop sign models all used the same shell. Jasper combination gumwood/maple, six ply for the toms and eight for the kick.
During the stop sign era (about '73) Gretsch changed the way they manufactured their bearing edges. They changed from a very rounded edge (called the pencilled edge) to the classic 30deg. edge still in use.
The difference in sound is quite dramatic. The rounded edge sends an enormous amount of the energy of the drum hit INTO the shell, resulting in a less resonant, more middly sound when hit at higher volumes.
Gretsch made the change because of the number of rock players wanting to play their drums harder without choking the sound of the drum.
It's not a big deal, as edges can be re-cut by a tech fairly cheaply- but it is something to bear in mind.

Also worth noting is that a huge percentage of '70s floor toms are not round, and as such will NEVER be able to be tuned... (believe me, I've owned a few!!)
If you are looking to buy one it's definitely worth just taking the heads off and checking that it's the same diameter measured each way across the edges. This CAN'T be fixed!!

Originally Posted by Sherekhan

-I have no clue if they have the same shells underneath, or whether the wrapping makes any significant difference in the sound... Also, if you have experience with both, have you noticed a difference in the sound of 6-ply stop-sign and round badge sets?
.

The round badge kits were predominantly 3ply Jasper shells, with the pencilled edges.
To be honest, the difference between the 3ply and 6ply is not massive, though the problem with 'roundness' particularly with 16" floor toms is still an issue.
The kicks made during the stop sign era have a little more focussed bottom IMO.

The wrapping is an interesting point. The coverings that Gretsch used (and the glue) was not that thick. In fact it is thinner than the laquer they introduced in the mid 70's.
If you strip a Gretsch totally down to the wood, you may notice an increase in sustain and volume. But the difference between the laquered and covered '70s finishes is negligable due to the thickness of the laquered coverings.

If you're after a very cool 60's sound, then the Gretsch round badge and the Ludwig Super Classics are the sound of that era.
If you want something that CAN do a more modern sound if you want it, then the Stop sign Gretsch can do it all!

[Bishbashbosh]

Originally Posted by Sherekhan

When people talk about 70's Gretsch being great recording sets, are they talking about any stop-sign 70's set of drums, or a specific model?

Just to add..... I own a limited edition 'Drum makers since 1883' stop sign kit (mid-70's), a 1983, and a 1991 Gretsch.... There's almost nothing to choose between them sound-wise. In fact, I'm not sure that blindfolded I could tell which was which.
I had my 70's kit's edges re-cut though (I find the pencilled edges too dark and muddy for my tastes).
The edges do make a great deal of difference (especially with thin shelled drums like Gretsch.... and especially when they are SO rounded like the Gretsch ones!)... so if you're after that 70's sound then be sure that the original edges are intact.

[Sherekhan]

You guys are great!

This is excellent info.

Many thanks.

Cheers.

[De chromium cob]

I have a early '70s Gretsch kit- I absolutely love it....

[givername]

I'm weighing in on this years late, and the quoted argument makes total sense, but is surprisingly not necessarily correct. I was under the same assumption until:

The guys at Fork's drum shop in Nashville did a shootout between lightly finished drums, heavily lacquered drums, and wrapped drums, all Gretsch of the same dimensions, and reported no discernible difference in resonance. Also, I think part of what people like about Gretsch drums while recording is that all the good tone happens early and gets out of the way. That's partly due to the mass of the die cast hoops, I think.

I'm a diehard Gretsch guy. I have two 70's kits and a modern renown kit that I tour with. The renown kit is unbelievably great for the price (or any price, really). It gives my 70's drums a run for their money, and they are as good as it gets. One thing to watch out for with 70's and older Gretsch drums is that the diameters aren't too big for modern heads. Both of my early 70's bass drums are almost too big to accept a modern Remo. I remedy this by cutting back the wrap at the edge where the drumhead collar is.

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Wrapped finishes adversely affect the tone of drums. Think about it. Take a nice resonant wood drum shell and then cover it with glue and wrap a hunk of plastic around it. What do you think that will do?

I noticed it as a kid. The first time I ever played a lacquered drum-set I noticed that it sounded different that the other drums I had played. I was much better, I was so happy when i finally got a set of laquered Gretsch drum when I was in college. I still play them and will only get rid of them in my will.

[dylanr]

I'm a '70s Gretsch convert here too. I've accumulated what is now a 9-piece so that I can accomodate most requirements in the studio. The shell roundness can be an issue so if you're purchasing anything give the kit a thorough looking over for roundness & also edge condition. Assuming you can find something in good condition, I think you'll find they are very versatile drums, capable of any genre that you're able to tune for. They'll take high and low tension tuning just equally well, so you're covered from bebop to rock and metal.

It's hard not rant about how great they sound and how well they record. There are plenty of other great drums out there for sure, but I don't know of anyone that has owned a '70s Gretsch and then looked for anything else to get a better sound.

[Edit: hahaa I now see when this was first posted! I'll leave the post here in case anyone else is in the market]

[rhythminmind]

All Gretsch kits (excluding budget lines) are top notch & record wonderfully. I'm partial to Jasper shells & 80's era unwrapped.

[Nikbeat]

Originally Posted by rhythminmind

All Gretsch kits (excluding budget lines) are top notch & record wonderfully. I'm partial to Jasper shells & 80's era unwrapped.

Agree the 80s kits are truly some of the best kits I have played. I have 2 kits from this era they are amazing but not easy to tune. be prepared to spend time on the floortom.