Looking for cymbals for my studio kit.

[James Lugo]

Hey guys, so I have a Yamaha Oak Custom (13, 16, 18, 24) and a big 700 sq ft tracking room. I'm looking for a good combination of cymbals for modern rock stuff.

Brand? Model? Size? etc....????

I'm a producer/composer/singer so I'm not always to keen with drums, I'd love some conceptual insight into why you would choose certain sizes and brands. We do a lot of hard rock stuff ala Alterbridge, Puddle Of Mudd, Foos, Paramore etc...

[gabriel_au]

I'm in love with Zildjian's new vintage cie series.
Very versatile, great for studio recordings. Not as heavy, bright and harsh as A customs, but still defined. Not as long decaying as Ks, but still lush.

here is a set of them being tested
YouTube - A. Zildjian & Cie Vintage Cymbal Set (ZildjianCie-110710SET)

[joeq]

I have always been a Zildjian guy. When I was young, their slogan was "there's Zildjian and there's everything else". This is certainly not the case today, but I come from a time when it was pretty much true, and that's what I like.

I suppose there is something to be said for mixing and matching brands, but there is also something to be said for consistency, even staying within a 'type'.

The best shopping tip I can give is: try to purchase the cymbals as a group. i.e. listening to them in a very well stocked store, selecting some candidates and bringing different cymbals in and out of the 'group' until you feel you have a "set". You need at least a ride, a crash and hi-hats. For me personally, a second ride or crash-ride is a must.

And of course you can go crazy with more crashes, accent and effect cymbals -splash, trash, china type, etc. The main cymbals should really work together, complement each other, not overlap too much, all that good stuff.

There's no right or wrong, IMO, just what pleases you.


If you do purchase your cymbals over a period of time, bring one or two of your current cymbals to the store as a reference to make sure the new dog gets along with Fido and Rover.

[biggator6]

I'll be the non-Zildjian voice here (though I have a full set of old Zildjians).

For NEWER cymbals - I personally think that Sabian does the Zildjian sound better than Zildjian now.. if you're buying older - Zildjian is the way to go.

I think slightly darker cymbals are better for the studio.. in the Zildjian world, that would likely be Ks... Sabian - HH or HHX. I have a full set of Sabian HH - and I love them.

Also - for crashes, I'd recommend thinner.. let them open up and get out of the way.. thicker cymbals leave too much of a footprint.

Some other new brands that sound pretty good.. Supernaturals, Amedia, Dream.

[biggator6]

I'm sure a Paiste lover can chime in here as well.. that's a whole different sound. I kind of want a set of 2002s.
"-)

[Dr. Mordo]

To my ears, for modern rock the Zildjian A Customs are the way to go. They are extremely tight and high pitched, and will naturally generate sounds that are higher pitched than almost any other instrument in the mix (i.e. instant space in the mix, no effort required).

I personally find them abrasive, but my music has more of a classic rock vibe.

For sizes, get the standard - 16" and 18" crash, 20" or 22" ride, and 14" hats.

I have no affiliation, but Midwestpercussion.com will throw in a 18" crash and free shipping if you buy the 14"hats /"16"/20" pack for $639. They are the best place I have found to buy drum stuff.

Philosophically, I prefer thinner cymbals and thinner drum heads. I play moderately hard, but I control my attack on the cymbals and go easy on them. With thinner heads and cymbals, they choke out faster as you hit them. By "choke out", I mean they generate the maximum amount of sound that they can make. So when you play thinner heads and cymbals, it sounds like you're pounding the shit out of the kit even if you aren't. I recommend that you not buy a crash heavier than a medium - thick crashes start to sound like gongs.

I also prefer a more vintage sound, so I play looser cymbals that have less tension in them like Paiste Traditional or Zildjian K Constantinople (Sabian has made some OK stuff, I just don't own any). Cymbals have progressively gotten thicker and tighter since the mid 70s.

I think crashes less than 16" have too fast of a decay, almost like a splash. Crashes larger than a 18" can become overbearing, but can also be great with the right player. 14" hats are the classic; some people prefer larger or smaller, but 14" will again be more versatile. Ride cymbal size is really not such a big deal - 20" or 22" doesn't make a huge difference either way.

[fngrstck]

I find anything thin works great. The less overtones I find the better. The attack doesn't get harsh when hit. I like Sabian AAx studio crashes. 16 and 18

[corworld]

There are some great replies so far. I would add that stage and studio require a different weight but it is up to the drummer to balance the kit when they play. I would describe the A-AA-AAX sound as "glassy", and the K-HH-HHX sound as "trashy". You want to choose something that is unified but interesting tonally. For the rock stuff you do, lean toward the larger sizes. 14" or even 15" hats. 18" and 19" inch crashes and 20" or 21" ride should cover it. Paiste Giant Beats are a classic for the Bonham type stuff so check those out.

[MikeCM]

I recently just played on a rented ludwig kit with a very good assortment of cymbals.. the most notable was the 22" K Custom Dark Ride Cymbal. I've played on MANY good cymabls, ranging from high end meinl's, to a 24" k-lite ride, a 21" Armand ride, and even the 21" sweet ride. i will go as far as to say that NONE of them compare to the 22" K custom dark ride. If you're looking to get on top of the mix with a ping, this thing can do it. If you're looking for the ballsiest crash ever, this cymbal has it, AND the bell can cut through any mix you want. I'm not a zildjian rep, nor do i endorse them with an agreement. I was just very pleased with this cymbal and how much sound it put out with just a light stroke. You dont need to hit hard with this cymbal to get that full resounding crash youre looking for, it just comes naturally.

Someone was also saying to purchase them as a set. This is a great idea but unless you have a very well stocked store, it is highly unlikely. But still... If you find a cymbal you like, don't just stick to that same brand//model brand. for example, if you like the way that 22" dark custom K sounds, dont limit yourself to trying just dark custom K's. I actually used a 20" custom A crash (brilliant finish) alongside the custom dark ride and they sounded great together. I also used a 17" dark custom k crash as well, but ended up NOT using the 19" dark custom K because it didn't fit well.

I would also make the case for some of the 2002 paiste cymbals. some of them have really good tone and some darkness to them and blend in real well with pocket playing (atleast the old school one I have).


Finally, hats... it really depends on the sound you're looking for. If you want a quick attack, sizzly hats, go with 13"s or brilliant 14"s. If you want a beefy pocket "chick" hats, i'd go with zildjian A 15" mastersounds or try a 16" crash combo together (i've used a 16" paiste and 16" custom a fast crash to great effect before).

Sorry if some of the info feels jumbled, its my first forum post in quite a while and have lots to share!

Meinl's are also not a bad choice but in my experience, my friend has broken 2-3 of them and he is NOT a hard hitter at all. May have just been those particular 2-3 cymbals though.

[gabriel_au]

I agree on the 22" K custom dark.

Also, 15" K light hats are AMAZING.

[chrisso]

I agree with just about everyone here.
Go for darker, thinner cymbals.
Lots of good recommendations above.
I use Zildjian K and Armand. I've played some very nice Sabian HHX too.

[ivmike]

My personal favourites in the studio are a Paiste mix of 2002s and Giant Beat cymbals. If you like the cymbal sounds that John Bonham got, then these should be your cymbals.

*waves to Chris*

[Gamelan]

There's just no substitute for getting yourself into a room full of cymbals and listening. If needed, take a percussionist friend with you. Buying cymbals off the rack or from a catalog will get you some very unpredictable results regardless of brand or size.

[The Pressman]

Another thumbsup for Zildjian K's, some of my favourite cymbals. But don't be afraid to mix and match cymbals from different series or even brands, as long as you can try them out first and choose which ones sound best together.. I only say this because I've been going through a lot of cymbals recently, and now play a combination of Piaste 2002's and Zildjian K's and A's (weird I know.. )

And also, I would highly recommend trying them out in the shop before you buy anything, or if you can, borrow some first to try in your studio.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Gamelan

There's just no substitute for getting yourself into a room full of cymbals and listening. If needed, take a percussionist friend with you. Buying cymbals off the rack or from a catalog will get you some very unpredictable results regardless of brand or size.

thumbsup

Zildjians, IME are very inconsistent. To me, this is a good thing, as each cymbal tends towards having an individual 'personality' - but it does require careful shopping. What I have read is that they are manufactured first and then played, whereupon a guy at the factory decides "what" they are.

I have heard it claimed that other companies (maybe with more 'modern' manufacturing?) supposedly turn out cymbals that are more consistent from unit to unit. I can not speak from experience here, however.

[MikeCM]

Originally Posted by joeq

thumbsup

Zildjians, IME are very inconsistent. To me, this is a good thing, as each cymbal tends towards having an individual 'personality' - but it does require careful shopping. What I have read is that they are manufactured first and then played, whereupon a guy at the factory decides "what" they are.

I have heard it claimed that other companies (maybe with more 'modern' manufacturing?) supposedly turn out cymbals that are more consistent from unit to unit. I can not speak from experience here, however.

I found this very true myself.. I play at a church, and we go through 20" crash custom A cymbals fairly often (its to be expected..) and i could not believe how different they could sound. I agree that it is a GOOD thing but only if you know the sound in the store.

I've even heard sweet rides having different timbres to them so.. yeah.

Anyway OP, there's a lot of wisdom in the posts above.

[biggator6]

Originally Posted by Gamelan

There's just no substitute for getting yourself into a room full of cymbals and listening. If needed, take a percussionist friend with you. Buying cymbals off the rack or from a catalog will get you some very unpredictable results regardless of brand or size.

Absolutely true.. but with a caveat!

I found when shopping for cymbals that my ears tired pretty quickly listening to them.. and I didn't have a LOT of time to audition cymbals before things started to sound the same. Listening to a ride isn't so bad.. but crashes can wear you out quickly. If you have a nearby store - go a few times on different days and see if you like the same ones with fresh ears.

[GYMusic]

Zildjian & Paiste here. Old and new. Like any other instrument, they all sound different and you can't have too many.

[pan60]

Zildjian's here.

[jmik]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

Hey guys, so I have a Yamaha Oak Custom (13, 16, 18, 24) and a big 700 sq ft tracking room. I'm looking for a good combination of cymbals for modern rock stuff.

Brand? Model? Size? etc....????

I'm a producer/composer/singer so I'm not always to keen with drums, I'd love some conceptual insight into why you would choose certain sizes and brands. We do a lot of hard rock stuff ala Alterbridge, Puddle Of Mudd, Foos, Paramore etc...

I'm a Zildjian guy, so pardon the lopsided reply.

I play primarily inside that genre, and every producer/engineer I work with loves my setup: 14" K Custom Session Hats, 19" A Custom Medium Crash, 19" A Custom Projection Crash, 22" A Custom Ping Ride, 18" A Custom EFX.

The Session hats are sort of in between the A Custom and typical K/K Custom range. Dark, but present enough to work in a mix. I'm acquaintances with Puddle Of Mudd's drummer through some mutual friends, and he turned me on to the A Custom Medium Crash, which sounds amazing for rock. The 22" Ping Ride is by the best ride for rock I've ever used. The bell cuts like knife and when you bash on it, it shimmers and roars like a rock ride should. The Projection Crash is a good all-arounder, and the EFX is trashy without being obnoxious like a china.

I always bring K's/K Customs to sessions just in case. They find their way onto tracks where appropriate, but generally on more pop oriented/mellower things. For what you're doing, I'd say (in Zildjian-land) stick to bigger A Customs, and check out some K Custom rides. I have a 20" K Custom Medium Ride that sees plenty of takes.

Also, I can vouch for earlier mentions of the 22" K Custom Dark Ride and 15" K Light Hats. I wouldn't necessarily use them on a modern rock session, but they sound amazing, especially paired together. I'm scraping up some cash for the 15" hats right now

[cgarges]

As a pretty hardcore Paiste guy, I can say that drummers who use my cymbals on sessions usually flip out over the Paiste Signature series fast crashes, which are the thinner models in that series. Occasionally, guys really dig the Traditionals, which are darker, trashier-sounding cymbals that blend in a little better, as opposed to exploding over the top of a mix. Recording guys tend to comment on the Traditionals, players tend to comment on the Sigs. (I like both and have both at my disposal.)

I must say, though, that the recent magic has really been happening with the reissued Giant Beat Series. I have been LOVING these cymbals for all sorts of stuff for the past year or so and everyone who's played them on sessions has loved them, too. Everyone comments on these things and I think I've probably sold two or three sets of these things for Paiste. (Man, I need a key man deal with them!) Eric "Roscoe" Ambel, who's normally a Zildjian fan, just did a session at my place and absolutely fell in love with them. The drummer on the session, who's usually a Sabian guy, did too. I'm constantly amazed at how well those cymbals work in such a huge variety of musical styles. They always sound good and exciting, but never overpower anything in the mix. And I'm mostly using big guys-- 18", 20" and 24" cymbals. I have a set of 14" hats that are to die for (I played the 15s and wasn't as knocked out by them). I've even been playing the hats on all my straight ahead jazz gigs with my old Ks and weirder cymbals.

Paiste's really onto something with these, although I think the just reissued Formula 602s are gonna turn a lot of heads, too. I love all my old 602s!

Oh, and for what it's worth, Paiste has just started offering a two-year warranty on all cymbals purchased in 2011 or later. That's a pretty big deal.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[soundsundergroun]

for modern rock crashes, I would stick with anything 18" and above. Anything smaller and you risk sounding like a noob.

[biggator6]

Chris.... you're not helping me get rid of that Paiste itch. stop it!
"-)

[nomoreflakes]

really, try the 17" Paiste 2002 thin crash. It is an absolutely beautiful crash that records perfectly

[recordinghopkins]

I'm in love with my Paiste Signature crashes and hats, I've got the 8" splash, 14" sound edge, 15" mellow crash, and 16" fast crash. smooth and responsive, even with brushes. Ive never once had an unhappy drummer or engineer when using these cymbals. I play an 18" zil light ride with these.

[dosilegecko]

I tried my Zildjian Z rock crashes (17, 18, and 19) in a studio and they did not sound that great. I love them to death for live situations, they have that heavy and dark sound that I like.

I have some A custom (17) thin crashes that sound great on recordings, but I've been using some cheaper Sabian X2 20's (16 and 18) for recording lately and am happier than with my Z Customs.

The Zildjian Z3 are a little better than the Z customs but not much.

I use a 22" A custom ping ride that I LOVE. Everyone borrows it from me for recording, it sounds great unless you crash on it too much.

My hats are my favorite: 14", A custom new beat top, A custom quick beat bottom. I've never heard a hi-hat sound this good live or recorded in my life, I LOVE LOVE LOVE it.

[cortisol]

Most of the top brands will have an option that will be great for a modern rock studio sound.

I recon Meinl Soundcaster Fusion crashes would be a great choice and they're a bargain too.

So James what did you choose in the end?

[sonortony35]

Maybe a little late but, I love my Meinl Byzance cymbals! I have a 20" Meinl Byzance Sand Ride, 14" Meinl Byzance Sand Hats, 18" Meinl MB20 Medium Heavy Crash and a 22" Meinl Byzance Medium Crash. I love all of them and they add such a character to the overall drum sound. Meinls all the way for me plus they have a killer warranty, 2 year replacement!

[Jimbo]

I played Zildjian/Sabians for 30 years.

Now I play Paiste Signatures. The highs on these give me eargasms. Not much build-up in the mids.

A totally modern sound.

Like someone else said, the fast-crashes are excellent.

[oscar gamble]

I bought a Zildjian 'Sweet Ride' for the studio kit's ride cymbal but it wound up being more versatile as a crash/ride.

You can't really hear much definition on it, especially in comparison to a 2002.

Another vote for Paiste.