Toms ringing when kick is struck - help!

[shrimpbait]

Ok I have a typical setup with two rack toms and a floor tom (rack toms are mounted on the kick).

I have the toms tuned to where I like (open and resonant) and the kick is a very tight punch. Only the front head is on the kick.

But! When I hit the kick / snare the two rack toms ring/resonate through the overheads to the point of driving me nuts. Everything is tuned great but all I hear in the overheads is doooong ping dooong ping every time the kick and snare are hit.

I am trying to avoid any dampening as I feel that takes away from the tone but I am not sure what else to do. My drums are setup on a large bamboo mat, the room is small/typical room in a house but treated. I thought about putting them back on the carpet with a thick rug or something but I am not sure.

Help?

[russelldl]

Take the toms off of the bass drum and put them on their own stand. Turn off your snares and make sure your snare drum isn't tuned to the same note as any of your toms. I'm sure there are other solutions but I would start there.

[biggator6]

Originally Posted by russelldl

Take the toms off of the bass drum and put them on their own stand. Turn off your snares and make sure your snare drum isn't tuned to the same note as any of your toms. I'm sure there are other solutions but I would start there.

+1

Also.. if you can't stop them from ringing sympathetically (and you may not be able to completely kill it) - you can adjust your tuning so that the sympathetic ringing sounds good.

[chrisso]

Toms ringing in sympathy to the bass drum is actually quite normal.
If tuned properly (as mentioned above) it can help to make the bass drum, and kit as a whole more fat/big. The kit is a whole instrument after all, not a collection of separate parts.
If tom ringing is super noticeable in the overheads you may need to adjust your own playing balance. Lower the volume of the overheads, raise them in height perhaps. Play the bass drum and snare more loudly. Then the tom ring will blend with the whole kit sound.

[sonortony35]

I would also check the tuning on the bottom heads on the toms. If they are out, that can cause quite nasty overtones. I also have my hi tom coming off a stand rather then mounted, which defiantly helps although it's not a complete solution.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by shrimpbait

Ok I have a typical setup with two rack toms and a floor tom (rack toms are mounted on the kick).

I have the toms tuned to where I like (open and resonant) and the kick is a very tight punch. Only the front head is on the kick.

But! When I hit the kick / snare the two rack toms ring/resonate through the overheads to the point of driving me nuts. Everything is tuned great but all I hear in the overheads is doooong ping dooong ping every time the kick and snare are hit.

I am trying to avoid any dampening as I feel that takes away from the tone but I am not sure what else to do. My drums are setup on a large bamboo mat, the room is small/typical room in a house but treated. I thought about putting them back on the carpet with a thick rug or something but I am not sure.

Help?

Not unusual at all for this to happen. Moving toms to own stand may help a little but proximity is your problem. If you are that loud in your OH's you may have the OH's to high in the mix. You have to remember that there will be some bleed with a real drum kit. Just the way it is.

[Andl]

Yeah, as mentioned, sympathetic resonance is part of the sound of a drum kit and should not be noticeable at normal playing volume.

You can reduce the ringing by tuning, but getting rid of it completely is not going to happen.
Trying to tune your kit avoiding sympathetic frequencies is going to seriously limit your tuning options!


Experiment by tuning your toms up or down a semitone (both batter and reso heads).

[doulos30]

Toms ringing in sympathy to the bass drum is actually quite normal.
If tuned properly (as mentioned above) it can help to make the bass drum, and kit as a whole more fat/big. The kit is a whole instrument after all, not a collection of separate parts.
If tom ringing is super noticeable in the overheads you may need to adjust your own playing balance. Lower the volume of the overheads, raise them in height perhaps. Play the bass drum and snare more loudly. Then the tom ring will blend with the whole kit sound.

exactly

But! When I hit the kick / snare the two rack toms ring/resonate through the overheads

thats like saying help my high e string vibrates when I play a g chord

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

This normal, everyone who has stated so is right. Obviously you can't get them out of the OH's, but you can go back later and edit everywhere there isn't a tom playing on your tom tom tracks.

After doing this, and bringing down the OH's in the mix it should be manageable. If not, try ringers, cut pieces of old heads into rings, try the getting them off the bass drum thing. I like ringer solutions that don't stick to the heads. Ones that "hop" up a bit when the drum is struck, and let it ring for a second, and then land back down muffling the drum after the hit.

Moon gel, tape, maxi-pads...whatever don't do this, they just muffle all the damn time.

Mostly though, you should be able just tune them outta the sympathetic range.

Good luck,
John

[Monty Sneddon]

I've always just taken it that tom ring etc is par for the course of playing a drum kit, as opposed to a single drum.

As has been mentioned before, the drum kit is a whole instrument which just happens to be made up of various different parts.

[scruffy]

Ive been having this problem too. My higher end toms (which are mounted separate from the kick) rang with the snare and I had all the drums tuned to what I wanted. I found that by loosening the bottom head of the toms slightly, I was able to get rid of the ring. It keeps the drum almost at the same tuning, but pulls out the ring.

[CB_Photo]

This is a very common occurrence. If you think about it, it's normal. It should happen. An impulse emanating from the kick through the tom mount, then transferring energy to the heads. Even mounted on their own stand the toms will resonate, albeit less so.

The real problem comes when you mix that kit into a full band. Things quickly start to sound muddy and the drum kit will lack clarity. This is when hard decisions must be made. Apply gates to each tom's signal path? Dampen the toms with Moon Gel or other devices? Try different heads? The choices are out there and the decision is yours.

For a reference recording, I listen to Spectrum by Billy Cobham. A huge kit, played hard, with perfect clarity and tone.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by CB_Photo

This is a very common occurrence. If you think about it, it's normal. It should happen. An impulse emanating from the kick through the tom mount, then transferring energy to the heads. Even mounted on their own stand the toms will resonate, albeit less so.

The real problem comes when you mix that kit into a full band. Things quickly start to sound muddy and the drum kit will lack clarity. This is when hard decisions must be made. Apply gates to each tom's signal path? Dampen the toms with Moon Gel or other devices? Try different heads? The choices are out there and the decision is yours.

For a reference recording, I listen to Spectrum by Billy Cobham. A huge kit, played hard, with perfect clarity and tone.

The overtones / resonances of a well tuned kit are what gives in depth. They are not an evil thing to be eliminated. As for Spectrum, I would not be surprised if the drums were not close mic'ed in 73 but I can't say for certain.

[CB_Photo]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

The overtones / resonances of a well tuned kit are what gives in depth. They are not an evil thing to be eliminated. As for Spectrum, I would not be surprised if the drums were not close mic'ed in 73 but I can't say for certain.

Gating or dampening a drum is done for aesthetics. I personally don't like to hear my toms hum when they're not being played.

Based on this post and this post, it appears they were close mic'd.

Cobham using his wallet on the snare. That's another tip about naturally gating a drum.

[Ken Scott]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

As for Spectrum, I would not be surprised if the drums were not close mic'ed in 73 but I can't say for certain.

They were close mic'ed with Neumann U67s. Lots of Neumann U67s.

Cheers

[CB_Photo]

Originally Posted by Ken Scott

They were close mic'ed with Neumann U67s. Lots of Neumann U67s.

What was done, if anything, about the sympathetic resonating toms? Gates? Or did you just let them hum?

In your videos of making EpiK DrumS, I don't see anything on Cobham's toms. I do see plenty of tape and stuff on Woody Woodmansey's drums.

[Andy Hamm]

The whole drum kit is one instrument unto itself. Toms and snares vibrating in sympathy with the rest of the kit is normal, and part of the kits sound.

[Ken Scott]

Originally Posted by CB_Photo

What was done, if anything, about the sympathetic resonating toms? Gates? Or did you just let them hum?

In your videos of making EpiK DrumS, I don't see anything on Cobham's toms. I do see plenty of tape and stuff on Woody Woodmansey's drums.

Two completely different drum sounds. Bill's were meant to be very open and "live", whereas Woody's was a very dead low sound. Bills sound would not have worked for Ziggy and I certainly don't think that Woody's sound would have worked for Birds Of Fire.

The sound must come from the studio. It has to be at least good from there and as an engineer you can then tweak it to make it great. If it's at best mediocre coming up to you the best you can make it is acceptable.

Cheers

[mingustoo]

....and there we have it!