beachball sounding kickdrum

[gt_jumper]

does this kickdrum sound like a "beachball" in the mix? What do i do to make it sound more realistic? I am using a 112 akg bass mic.

SoundClick artist: the distopian - page with MP3 music downloads

any advice would be awesome

[jmik]

You got some beach ball going on, but there's some other factors I would address along with it.

If you're able to track it again, awesome. If not, try these next time you record. It sounds like there's some dampening in the kick already, so add more and/or move what's already in there around to get the best sound. Also, try loosening the batter and/or resonant heads a bit. Regarding mic placement, I find that with open kicks I'm more susceptible to the beach ball when I have the mic all the way inside the drum. Try some different mic placement and mic combos; I've had great results putting the mic into the hole on the resonant head sort of halfway in (think of the way you'd mic a kick drum live).

If you can't re-track it, then go to town with some compression and eq, or just trigger a sample.

[vintagelove]

the d112 is the best beach ball mic ever!!! Seriously that is the first thing I thought when I saw the thread title..... If you do not like that sound try a d6

[Denus]

I despise the mic for that very reason, but I came across an internet post back when I was trying to figure out how to make a 112 sound good that stated that turning the mic around backwards... ie: black side facing batter head, it would sound better... sad part is that it's true!

What heads did you use?

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by Denus

I despise the mic for that very reason, but I came across an internet post back when I was trying to figure out how to make a 112 sound good that stated that turning the mic around backwards... ie: black side facing batter head, it would sound better... sad part is that it's true!

What heads did you use?

I know nothing about drums but here is a video of the mic up before the song was tracked, same gear was used too.



The drum has absolutely nothing inside it, since then i have stuffed a sheet into the hole hoping to soak up some of the nasty mass my mic picked up. i didn't wanna blot out the clicky sound though as we get into so quite heavy/fast stuff needing the clarity. but there is absolutely no clarity with the beachball drum :(

i will try these tips next mic up, thenks guys

[biggator6]

If you're doing fast stuff - and want a clicky bass drum, why are you recording it with no muffling in it? Two things that don't go together are 'fast/clicky kick' and 'wide open tuning'. Muffle it down, maybe even remove the front head altogether (the drummer may cringe at that idea). Audix D6 for modern/clicky sound, too.. or a combination of a 57 and a subkick/speaker-mic.

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by biggator6

If you're doing fast stuff - and want a clicky bass drum, why are you recording it with no muffling in it? Two things that don't go together are 'fast/clicky kick' and 'wide open tuning'. Muffle it down, maybe even remove the front head altogether (the drummer may cringe at that idea). Audix D6 for modern/clicky sound, too.. or a combination of a 57 and a subkick/speaker-mic.

Sounds like fun, i might go research this some more, as i have seen the "speaker mic" in pictures and thought it was "monitoring" of some sought for the drummer.

What would thoughts be on mic'ing the beater side for that deathmetal click, something like this tone? http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9736148

[jmik]

Agreed. Throw some more stuff inside to soak up that noise. I run with an Evans EQ Pad in my kicks live, but in the studio I always wind up with a blanket or pillow in there.

And if you're so inclined, you can make a "speaker mic" out of a mic cable, and what else- a speaker. It'll save you a lot of money too. People tend to gravitate towards NS10 woofers (which is why I think Yamaha decided to start manufacturing them) but any speaker will work. I've found the shittier speakers are more responsive, i.e. the ones with cheap paper domes/cones.

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by jMik

Agreed. Throw some more stuff inside to soak up that noise. I run with an Evans EQ Pad in my kicks live, but in the studio I always wind up with a blanket or pillow in there.

And if you're so inclined, you can make a "speaker mic" out of a mic cable, and what else- a speaker. It'll save you a lot of money too. People tend to gravitate towards NS10 woofers (which is why I think Yamaha decided to start manufacturing them) but any speaker will work. I've found the shittier speakers are more responsive, i.e. the ones with cheap paper domes/cones.

Thanks guys hey!

In my travels researching i found this.
How to build a sub kick « Guerilla Recording Blog

might give it a go with an sm57 pointed at the click pad. do you need phantom power with a speaker mic?

[bitman]

+1 to turning the D112 around 180.

[jmik]

Originally Posted by gt_jumper

Thanks guys hey!

In my travels researching i found this.
How to build a sub kick « Guerilla Recording Blog

might give it a go with an sm57 pointed at the click pad. do you need phantom power with a speaker mic?

Nope, just plug it straight into a pre. Just remember to check the phase on it; if there's not a reverse switch on the pre, do it in your DAW.

Good luck if you decide to build one! It's painfully easy. Just FYI, best one I've made so far is from a guitar practice amp with a 10" speaker, bought at a pawn shop for $30. I put the speaker back into the chassis after I modded it, which made it easy to set in front of the kick, bass cab, etc. Use your imagination

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by charlesaustin

the d112 is the best beach ball mic ever!!!

maybe if you turn it 180° from the source

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

maybe if you turn it 180° from the source

I will definitely try this but will it have the clear punchy and clicky kick i am chasing?

[zzfdvz@mac.com]

If you're not getting the kick sound you want, it's so much easier to trigger it. In the real world, kicks are heavily triggered anyhow.

To get a legit kick sound, you need;
-a good drummer
-a good beater
-good heads
-good drums
-a good room
-good tuning
-probably several mics blended to taste
-probably a little sampling anyway

Please keep in mind I did not listen to this track, I'm just tossing generally accepted knowledge out there of what it'd take to get it right.


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[Lee]

I would trigger these. Especially after watching the video of him playing drums. He's not horrible, but if that's how he played when you recorded, that's a problem all on its own.

I would also maybe try to tighten up his playing a bit (it might help?), as it's pretty loose for a style that isn't usually quite so free sounding.

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by Lee

I would trigger these. Especially after watching the video of him playing drums. He's not horrible, but if that's how he played when you recorded, that's a problem all on its own.

I would also maybe try to tighten up his playing a bit (it might help?), as it's pretty loose for a style that isn't usually quite so free sounding.

Hes quite a tight drummer for what im used to, this was basically him hitting them in a sound check and i recorded it. he is not into the trigger/replacement thing and i am stepping up to a challenge here by getting a sound usable for this. But i am cheating anyway by coming in here asking what to do lol

I got a very nice kick sound by inserting the mic in the hole more and a sheet was in there. the raw sound was very tight and usable!

[gt_jumper]

recorded this in a jam, sounds very much like what i am after.

SoundClick artist: the distopian - page with MP3 music downloads

[orbro]

I don't know many drummers that are "in to the replacement thing", I think it's a pride related issue. The trick is to not tell them you're doing it. Nine times out of ten they have no idea it's being done and end up saying "Wow, that sounds awesome!"

[jmik]

Originally Posted by orbro

I don't know many drummers that are "in to the replacement thing", I think it's a pride related issue. The trick is to not tell them you're doing it. Nine times out of ten they have no idea it's being done and end up saying "Wow, that sounds awesome!"

Agreed.

I think some drummers take it as a personal stab when they hear their super-awesome heartfelt drum purchase sounds like shit and needs to be replaced. I personally don't care if my drums get replaced, so long as it's done properly to where it doesn't sound replaced. I'll try to (or get whoever is mixing) to try to blend the sample and original snare/kick/tom sounds over direct replacement.

As yeah, you can get away with replacement a majority of the time if you do it while the band's gone and hiding the tracks when they come back.

[bentwookieesound]

Improper placement and/or muffling is typically the cause. The D112 isn't always terribly happy buried inside a kick drum, either. Due to proximity effect, you can get a lot of low-end buildup by placing it too close to the beater side. It's counter-intuitive, but you can increase the click to a certain degree by pulling the mic back.

[gt_jumper]

Originally Posted by bentwookieesound

Improper placement and/or muffling is typically the cause. The D112 isn't always terribly happy buried inside a kick drum, either. Due to proximity effect, you can get a lot of low-end buildup by placing it too close to the beater side. It's counter-intuitive, but you can increase the click to a certain degree by pulling the mic back.

The mic is poking into the hole about 2 inches

[zzfdvz@mac.com]

Originally Posted by orbro

I don't know many drummers that are "in to the replacement thing", I think it's a pride related issue. The trick is to not tell them you're doing it. Nine times out of ten they have no idea it's being done and end up saying "Wow, that sounds awesome!"

Completely genre dependant I think. Hardcore metal/scremo/metalcore/blah blah drummers as me what kind of triggers I have routinely.

Also, I think just being straight up and honest with the band/drummer leads to good communication and acceptance of ideas. I RARELY retune kick drums to sound good. Not because I'm lazy, but because it can change the feel for the drummer and they won't hit the pocket the same way (might be subtle for simple drummers...but crazy double kick can = nightmare). If you explain it to them straight up, and explain the kick might fine live, but in the studio it's sketchy, etc...they usually see your point and agree. In the end you're boosting quality and saving money...very few bands will disagree with that.

[soundsundergroun]

i've gotten that beach ball effect many times when there is no muffling in the drum, even with high end models and great drummers and great tuning. My suspicion is the sound is bouncing all around in there with no muffling.