Right...Yamaha maple custom absolutes or Tama Starclassic Bubinga Elites?

[Jack Ruston]

Hi everyone

I need some input. I'm about to buy some shells for general use at work. We do rock bands pretty much all the time.

I've tried a lot of kits over the last few weeks and I've narrowed it down to two.

There's a Tama Starclassic Bubinga Elite 22x18, 12x8, 14x12 and 16x14. It's very deep sounding, loads of amazing low end. It's smooth tonally. Sounds very expensive. Quite fast decay. Sounds sort of like samples if you know what I mean. It's quite mid-scooped. You wouldn't need to do those 500hz cuts that you sometimes have to do on toms. This one sounds particularly good compared with some of the other Tama Bubingas I've heard. My reservations are that 1. I'd prefer a 12x9 rack tom sonically but I'm not too worried about it and 2. It might be too scooped and smooth. It's not got a huge amount of charachter and I wonder if thats a good thing. Has anyone tracked these kits? How did it sit in the mix?

The other kit is a Maple Absolute. 10x8 12x9 14x14 16x16 22x18. This one has a much more mapley sound obviously. It's very resonant. Quite thin shells. Lots of bark and midrange with the lows. It's not as bottom endy as the tama and much more sustain. It sounds fantastic in the room. It's louder. My reservation here is that I find myself having to do more to maple kits when recording. I find they usually do need eqing in the mids and often gels to calm them down. Also there is a tom mount on the kick where ideally I would prefer it undrilled. Again I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.

Do I:

1. Buy the Tama and risk occasionally finding it a bit too eq'd so to speak
2. Buy the Yamaha and risk finding it not eq'd enough.
3. Buy both
4. Buy something else altogether.

Out of interest I went to look at a Yamaha Phoenix kit which sounds amazing in the promo videos. It was REALLY HARD WORK. I found it hard to tune and while the floor toms were amazing, the rack tom was just unresponsive. The kick was also quite uninspiring. For the money I wasn't too impressed. I mention this because my searches revealed that there's not a lot of info on the forum about these. I suspect that they vary quite a lot kit to kit.

Thanks for any advice

Jack

[Jax]

First off, I would never buy a kit knowing that it has no character. In that case, you might as well use one set of dull samples!

As usual, the kit you get should depend on the genres of music it will be expected to perform within. Mid scooped drums (essentially the sound of bubinga and particularly so in the Tama line) are heard quite a bit in hard rock and metal these days. Maple's midrange and warmth are more adaptable to many more styles of music than a kit that will never produce an adequate amount of mids. Maple is more flexible in the ways you can craft the sound into what is needed, be it at the kit side of things or later in the mix stage. To me, the worst situation would be wanting more mids and not being able to recreate them without trickery. That said, I already have an all maple kit and my next one will be something tighter, drier and less mid- pronounced. I'm looking at hybrids.

For the same money as either of those kits, I would be sure to NOT rule out Gretsch and Ludwig. Ludwig in particular is offering a wide selection of tonal woods and wood combinations that they never have before. They've expanded their own sonic palette with the excuse that it's their 100th anniversary and time to try something different. Works for me!

I'm most fond of their hybrid birch/maple shells right now (the Epic line), which offer just the right amount of attack (more than maple) from the birch and a the warmth of maple in a shorter, punchier note. And they're cheap! $824 US for a 6 piece kit! I'm holding out however, because what I believe to be the ultimate Ludwig is about to hit the stores. You may have seen it in a thread I made recently: Ludwig Keystone Series. The combination of oak outer plies and maple inner should be very rewarding with a slightly increased low end, more pronounced and slightly shorter fundamental note, and sharper attack from the oak combined with the usual qualities of maple. For the money I'm strongly considering buying both the Epic and Keystone kits, if I can figure out where to put them and my current Yamaha MC.

Your report on the Phoenix is a little surprising. I'd expect them to sound phenomenal and be issue free for the money. Perhaps the one you played was some sort of dud, or maybe Yamaha is more concerned with making a gaudy looking piece of art instead of a fine sounding kit with the Phoenix.

[Jack Ruston]

Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it.

I think you're right and I dont think I will get the Bubinga simply for the reason that I've driven over two hours twice to see it and haven't pulled the trigger yet. I guess that tells me something.

I really like the MCA. I wish I could try the birch version but I cant find any anywhere within driving distance. All the samples on you tube tell me that they're slightly less midrangey and barky and I think that might be just the ticket. Memphis drum shop have loads of maple and birch videos and while the recordings aren;'t amazing you can clearly hear the trend in the sound change with the wood. Although I'd never normally consider buying blind so to speak I am tempted to order some Birch Custom Absolute toms as I was so impressed with the maples.

I will look into the Ludwigs although I've been slightly put off both Ludwig and Gretsch by some of the recent models. I've heard a 125 anniversary Gretsch rock kit which I didn't like either. I do want an element of that modern sound.

Re the phoenix...I've heard two of them now. The floor toms are just to die for. They're fantastic. The 12 inch rack tom in both cases was hard work. The promo videos sound great but the tuning was really hard work on the ones I heard. They sounded like thick shells if you know what I mean. The kicks were sort of...nothingy. Nothing bad nothing great either. If the kit was a couple of thousand dollars cheaper it would have made more sense. I think buyers are funding a lot of R&D there and while I support that in our industry I think as an individual purchase it doesn't sit too easily. I suspect that some of those kits are just amazing and others are less so.

J

[Pawel]

I suggest you try a Yamaha Oak Custom: 12x9 rack tom as you like, different wood with character, very full sound, records very well. All regular sizes, the kick is 22x17 and sounds huge, lots of bass.

Dave Weckl used my kit for a clinic here in northern Italy, and was really pleased about the sound (he also complimented me about the tuning )
The kits he requested on the specsheet were, in order of preference: "Phoenix, Maple Vintage or Maple Custom, Oak Custom, Birch Absolute. NO MAPLE ABSOLUTE shells if possible."

We talked about the PHX and he said that its tonal range is very wide, but isn't as focused as the old MC and it's a bit tricky to achieve a great tuning on them, and if he says so I tend to believe him



I tried the PHX myself and had the same impressions: great floor toms, less great rack toms, kick: nothing special. And waaay too overpriced.

[Jack Ruston]

Thanks for that.

J

[foamboy]

I must also say that the Yamaha Oak sound is HUGE!!!! That is the BEST kick I have heard in a long time! It is much better to get a kit that has all of the necessary frequencies because as you know, it is easeir to subtract them than to add them. I have been a drummer for 35 yrs and IMO Yamaha ALWAYS WINS!!! They can sound like any style of kit you need with the right head and tuning combinations.

My advice, if you care......go with Yamaha. I have for nearly 30 yrs and I have absolutely(no pun inteneded) no regrets.

Good luck.

fb

[Jack Ruston]

Thanks...I was listening to James's tracking of his new oak custom and it really sounds awesome. I think that's definitely a good choice. I'm going to look into it. Apart from anything else it's a lot cheaper, and it really sounds good.

J

[James Lugo]

We've been really happy with the Oak Custom, just ordered 10" and 12" toms. Records beautifully.

[James Lugo]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

We've been really happy with the Oak Custom, just ordered 10" and 12" toms. Records beautifully.

[Guitfiddle]

Oak Custom, yum yum! I have been trying to make a choice between the Oak Custom and the Tama Bubinga...The floor models that I played on didn't have very good heads on them and I didn't hear them in all their glory! Needed a good tuning. I have basically narrowed it down to these two kits! Have you tried the Tama bubinga and compared it to the Oak Custom? Leaning towards Oak Custom. If I go Oak Custom then I have to decide between 24", 22" kick...Decision, decisions, ugh! They had the Phoenix 9 piece NAMM floor model at one of the stores in my area. Jaw dropping turquoise fade to bright Maple w/cage in all it's beauty. It was tuned up, and I didn't care for it to much. It sounded good, but I have heard better.

[AKCSTUDIO]

Originally Posted by Guitfiddle

Oak Custom, yum yum! I have been trying to make a choice between the Oak Custom and the Tama Bubinga...The floor models that I played on didn't have very good heads on them and I didn't hear them in all their glory! Needed a good tuning. I have basically narrowed it down to these two kits! Have you tried the Tama bubinga and compared it to the Oak Custom? Leaning towards Oak Custom. If I go Oak Custom then I have to decide between 24", 22" kick...Decision, decisions, ugh! They had the Phoenix 9 piece NAMM floor model at one of the stores in my area. Jaw dropping turquoise fade to bright Maple w/cage in all it's beauty. It was tuned up, and I didn't care for it to much. It sounded good, but I have heard better.

go with the 22 kick for sure bro.thumbsup

[TacticalPizza]

You might want to check out the Pearl Reference line as well, if you haven't already bought a kit.

[Rolf Fiesel]

Originally Posted by TacticalPizza

You might want to check out the Pearl Reference line as well, if you haven't already bought a kit.

Reference right here !!

[Mylesh]

IMO the tama has a stronger bass drum, and better mounts (just a preference), but the yammies are more focused.

[Jax]

Gotta say, I wasn't a fan of the YESS mounts from the start and I'm still not. I'm upgrading to RIMS... at least the floor toms. Something to consider with the Yamahas.

[Guitfiddle]

I really like the hardware on the tama's...especially the platinum nickle rims...I have checked out the 24 vs. 22 on the kick of the oak customs, and I couldn't believe the difference in the sound. That 24 kills! It was funny because a guy walked in while I was jamming on it, he even asked me about it. He said it sounded so good he had to come in there and see which kick drum it was. It is still a toss up between the bubinga vs the oak custom. Not in a hurry to decide because I want to make sure I am happy with the kit I am getting. I have many more kits to try. I need to hear some of these kits recorded in their glory.

[CB_Photo]

Originally Posted by Guitfiddle

I really like the hardware on the tama's

I think Tama's hardware is the best in the biz. It offers the most flexibility for positioning, and it's very durable. There premium cymbal stands are also built to be quiet. No rattles or buzzing. My only complaint is with their Iron Cobra double pedals. They use rivets on the long extension rod and over time they wear on the drilled holes and get sloppy. It's fixable, but they need to redesign it.

[Guitfiddle]

Hey thanks guys...I got a killer deal on a Tama Bubinga kit, however still trying to decide between Bubinga and Oak!!!!! Decisions, Decisions!

[Jax]

I'm not a big fan of the sound of bubinga shells, at least not on the Tama's I've tried. Oak is comparable, but more toneful if you ask me.

[El chapi]

I dont know if u already solved ur problem but i have a pearl reference 22 10 12 16 and a yamaha absolute. Now the yammie has a 24x18 virgin maple kik and 10 12 and 16 floor tom the toms are birch and the kik is in maple. I ordered it like that cuz i thought it would be perfect for tracking ( im a full time re. Engineer so i rent them for session work) i love the yamaha it has a big fo used bass drum with punchy tonefull toms its very versatile And sounds incredible i have to admit its. Little cranky when u try to tune if!!! But when u reach the sweetspot is lime butta!!!!! Now the pearl its rock n roll. Big sounding and resonant. The yammie is my favorite fo record but i love playin the pearl!!!!!! When u hit it its hit you back if u know what i mean lol. I also have a tama starclassic mirage (acrilic) thAt sounds great but its not wood so i wont go into details. Hope this helps sorry bout the typos im writting on my iphone n english is not my first language

[Jack Ruston]

Thanks for that.

J

[Guitfiddle]

I figured I'd follow up on this post! Nice kit James! Finally decided Yamaha Oak Custom as well! 10" 12" 14" 16" 24" kick in blue sparkle! Anyone using other heads besides emperor or ambassador coated? I would like to hear G2's, or pinstripe's on these. They will probably gain more focus, but what fabulous sounding drums. I have some pics for you to check out, they aren't that good, cheap cell phone.

[biggator6]

Nice looking kit!

What's with the three holes in the reso head on your kick?

[muziekschuur]

I'm allso a huge fan of the yamaha Oak.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by Guitfiddle

I figured I'd follow up on this post! Nice kit James! Finally decided Yamaha Oak Custom as well! 10" 12" 14" 16" 24" kick in blue sparkle! Anyone using other heads besides emperor or ambassador coated? I would like to hear G2's, or pinstripe's on these. They will probably gain more focus, but what fabulous sounding drums. I have some pics for you to check out, they aren't that good, cheap cell phone.

Congrats! I have the exact same kit, including blue sparkle. They only made it in blue sparkle for a limited run, so our's might be collector-worthy someday.

Regarding heads, I'm about to switch out the smaller toms from clear emperors to coated ambassadors or ambassador X's to open them up a little. I feel they are slightly choked by emperors. The floor toms are probably going to get a set of more focussed heads than the clear emperors on them now. Not sure what I'm getting for them, yet.

[Guitfiddle]

Thanks guys. The 3 hole reso kick head was on the kit when I bought it. I thought it looked cool, but I'm sure it doesn't sound as good as it can with that on it. It still has a really strong kick even with this head, and I could use it in a pinch, but I have to experiment. I never had Oak, so back to the drawing board for skins. I can't wait to record this kit. It will be interesting recording a country demo with it.

They only made it in blue sparkle for a limited run, so our's might be collector-worthy someday.

Yeah, that is what I heard about the blue sparkle from another drummer, while trying to track down this kit. I really dig the color, especially when the lights hit it.

[biggator6]

Ping Lugo as well.. I'm pretty sure he's got an Oak in his studio. See which heads he's running for comparison.

[DamoSyzygy]

Originally Posted by Guitfiddle

Hey thanks guys...I got a killer deal on a Tama Bubinga kit, however still trying to decide between Bubinga and Oak!!!!! Decisions, Decisions!

Go for the thinner, harder shell!

[jsox2409]

I just ordered a Yamaha Absolute kit. Birch toms and maple kick. I like the birch toms better than the maple. tune the top and bottom heads even and they're pretty easy to EQ. BUt, I do mostly country stuff. 24x18 kick 10x8 12x8 13x9 16x16.

But, between the tama kit and the yamaha kit I'd go with the Maple shells. They eq up nice. And A virgin kick drum would be nice to have too

Don't waste time looking at the phoenix unless you want a kit that sounds Eqd compressed and gated. I like a raw sound but, thats just me.

Whatever you go with I would recommend getting a satin finish. Lacquer and wraps seem to weigh the drums down and deaden the tone a little

[Guitfiddle]

I just ordered a Yamaha Absolute kit. Birch toms and maple kick. I like the birch toms better than the maple. tune the top and bottom heads even and they're pretty easy to EQ. BUt, I do mostly country stuff. 24x18 kick 10x8 12x8 13x9 16x16.

But, between the tama kit and the yamaha kit I'd go with the Maple shells. They eq up nice. And A virgin kick drum would be nice to have too

Don't waste time looking at the phoenix unless you want a kit that sounds Eqd compressed and gated. I like a raw sound but, thats just me.

Whatever you go with I would recommend getting a satin finish. Lacquer and wraps seem to weigh the drums down and deaden the tone a little

Nice, congrats on the new kit! It's cool you do mostly country, lately I have been doing a lot of country also. This is my first 24" kick and I love the sound and response. I like bringing different kits to rehearsal to get feedback from the band. It's funny to see their reaction. They give me their opinions and I like hearing what they have to say. They are very tuned in and they tell me if they don't like something, like my snare lately. I am going through a snare phase right now.

This is my first Yamaha kit. Actually got the oak for my gigging kit. When we played a festival about a month ago, the company that provided the backline had a Yamaha maple custom absolute kit. I really liked the sound of it. I'm beginning to really like Yamaha kits. Maple and birch shells are still my favorite choices, however I'm really liking my new Yamaha Oak kit so far.