Drums for my studio!

[claend]

Dear drumheads ,

I run a small studio that includes a room whitch i rent to 2 bands for their practisse needs. Given the space is limited, I'd like to buy a drumset -excluding cymbals- for both bands, whitch could also work for my recording needs. Now, I'm not a drummer, and would like to know whitch kind of drums would be appropiate for this situation.

My main focus is pop to loud rock and everything in between, 2nd hand market is fine and would like to keep it in the ballpark of 800€.

i know it's a very general topic, but given my limited knowledge of brands/woods/specific uses, any suggestions will be highly apreciated.

Carlos

[RubixGroove]

I'm not quite too sure what 800€ converts to in USD, but I'll try to help!
If you're looking for a kit that can cover the pop/loud-rock stuff, I'm pretty sure you could get by with one of those Gretsch Catalina Jazz kits, you could have it all covered.

I only say that because the kits are relatively "cheap" and I've seen them play (and sound good doing!) just about every genre out there. Extremely flexible, and perfect for a in-house kit. A bit smaller sized kick drum than your "standard" rock kit makes it easier to move around and fit into tighter spaces... if that's a worry!


Offical Gretsch site:
Gretsch Drums Drums

Online vendor selling the kit:
Gretsch CCJ484 Catalina Club Jazz 4-Piece from zZounds.com

Read reviews and talk to other players! Over-all, this kit gets a lot of love for the sub-$1,000 market!


/flameon

[Jax]

Do all Catalina kits come in those goofy finishes? There are people who really like the racing stripes, I guess.

That said, I have no idea about the quality of the Catalina line, but 800 euros will get you a great sounding Gretsch Renown, which is supposed to be a step up. And it doesn't have to look like you keep toys in your studio.

EDIT: Nevermind, the dollar is much stronger since I last checked. That won't quite get you a Renown, but getting close.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by claend

Dear drumheads ,

I run a small studio that includes a room whitch i rent to 2 bands for their practisse needs. Given the space is limited, I'd like to buy a drumset -excluding cymbals- for both bands, whitch could also work for my recording needs. Now, I'm not a drummer, and would like to know whitch kind of drums would be appropiate for this situation.

My main focus is pop to loud rock and everything in between, 2nd hand market is fine and would like to keep it in the ballpark of 800€.

i know it's a very general topic, but given my limited knowledge of brands/woods/specific uses, any suggestions will be highly apreciated.

Carlos

I don't know if I would be letting tenants beat the shit out of a kit I intend for studio use. The bill for head replacement alone would make it cost prohibitive

[RubixGroove]

Jax - I think you're looking at the Catalina Club "MOD", not the "JAZZ". Those Catalina Mod kits look so terrible, and they feel even worse in-person than the terrible pictures on the 'net. They are light, extremely light. The Catalina Club "JAZZ" sets are all rather sexy looking, and if you search them in Google or use eBay, you can see that there have been quite a few different finishes during different times for the Club JAZZ kits.

Audio - I hear ya on not wanting your clients or what have you beating the drums like that! Depending on the money-time ratio, it might not even be that big of a deal. Unless the session was super long OR the player hadn't the "proper" playing technique... you'd be hard pressed to SERIOUSLY damage most drum heads out there, even in a few shorter sessions. The snare drum might be the one you'd want to replace the most, with or without visible damage. If you had some coated heads on all toms and a Superkick II or an EMAD on the bass drum, they could even stand up to the most pissed-off, anxty, prepubescent basher for at least 1.3 recording sessions!


Gretsch Catalina Club JAZZ
(NOT the Club Mod!!!)

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

I don't know if I would be letting tenants beat the shit out of a kit I intend for studio use. The bill for head replacement alone would make it cost prohibitive

Got to say that's the first thing that came to my mind.
Two drummers practicing are likely to trash the kit, let alone go through heads like there's no tomorrow.
A studio kit is ideally treated with care and respect, and kept in primo condition (well tuned, good quality heads etc).
I wouldn't use an 18" bass drum for 'loud' rock/pop either.

[Jax]

Rubix, unless I'm not seeing the exact kit you're talking about, it looks like the 18x14 bass drums on the Catalina Jazz are generally too small for rock. However, they do look 100% better than the Catalina Club. Since the OP mentioned wanting to find a kit for "pop to loud rock and everything in between", I don't think a small bass drum is going to get the job done.

EDIT: looks like chrisso beat me to it.

Originally Posted by RubixGroove

Jax - I think you're looking at the Catalina Club "MOD", not the "JAZZ". Those Catalina Mod kits look so terrible, and they feel even worse in-person than the terrible pictures on the 'net. They are light, extremely light. The Catalina Club "JAZZ" sets are all rather sexy looking, and if you search them in Google or use eBay, you can see that there have been quite a few different finishes during different times for the Club JAZZ kits.

[mrmike186]

I am willing to bet that your budget could have many options on the used market, anything from a Tama Starclassic Performer, Grestch Renown, Ludwig Classic Maple, Pacific Platinum series, Pearl MCX. These are all pro quality looking and sounding kits that would work quite well for rock and pop.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by mrmike186

I am willing to bet that your budget could have many options on the used market, anything from a Tama Starclassic Performer, Grestch Renown, Ludwig Classic Maple, Pacific Platinum series, Pearl MCX. These are all pro quality looking and sounding kits that would work quite well for rock and pop.

34% of all children between the ages of 8 and 14 pester their parents to buy them a drum set. Of these, 99.9% give up the drums within a year once they learn that it is hard work to get good. Add in 1000's of serious drummers that are trading up, and older drummers who have retired or quit, and you have a huge market of sometimes excellent used drums gathering dust in people's cellars. Quite likely a number of them in your home town.

Your Euros will go a lot farther getting a quality used kit than the budget line new kit. Even if the used kit is a bit beat-up cosmetically, in the studio sound trumps looks, and for rehearsal kits, few people care.


I agree with those who say 18" kick will be problematical for many rock drummers.

[Jax]

Hey joe, where'd you get those stats? They don't sound inaccurate. Just wondering if they're real and where you go to find out such things.

I agree that getting a good used kit is a very much worth consideration. However, in my experience about half the time I've bought any used gear, I was picking up part of someone else's equipment problem. With drums it should be easier to tell if something's wrong than it is with a lot of other gear.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Jax

Hey joe, where'd you get those stats? They don't sound inaccurate. Just wondering if they're real and where you go to find out such things.

87% of all statistics are made up on the spot
the rest come from the internet

I agree that getting a good used kit is a very much worth consideration. However, in my experience about half the time I've bought any used gear, I was picking up part of someone else's equipment problem. With drums it should be easier to tell if something's wrong than it is with a lot of other gear.

indeed a drum is just a hollow tube and some screws. As long as it was kept in a dry place there is not much that can go wrong with it. You are going to put new heads on it anyway. Kick and Hi-hat pedals are technically 'machines' but even there, what are you talking about - a couple of springs, a lever, etc? Not like buying a used car or used computer both of which are extremely complex and can have many subtle 'synergistic' problems you might not see until after a while of owning them.

also remember a high percentage of these sets are being sold, not because they are 'old' or broken down, but because some child has lost interest in the drums. I believe it's about 57%.

these kits are often in great shape, except for the dust. It's not like little Johnny has been bouncing them around on his way to and from gigs.

when I am looking at used drums, the main thing I check for is that they rest flat on a flat surface and that they are round to my eye. Of course look for obvious cracks, and a big one is stains (or mold!) indicating water damage... Maybe you have to replace some lugs, maybe one cymbal stand is stripped, but it is very unlikely that you will learn that a whole kit is "bad" - but only after you get it home.

In fact I would say the likelihood is less than 1%!

[chrisso]

I agree, with very little to go wrong, buying used is a no brainer.
I've bought used for years, and only ever had one bad experience (and I had gambled on the purchase anyway, so I was part to blame).

[Sean Sullivan]

I got my Ludwig Fab Four Classic Maple Bop kit on eBay with all the hardware for $670. It had only been used 4 times by the former owner who used it in a Beatles cover band for a summer. It's a $2000 kit and records great, I added a RIMS mount to the rack tom which really allowed it to ring (tom mounts on the shell really chock the sound). I'd like to get a nicer snare, but that's later down the road.

[claend]

Thanks all for your responses...You guys are great!!
I'll look for a nice kit in the 2nd hand market, seems definetely my best shot.

Bout the kick stuff... What measures should i look for the intended purpose?? (pop to loud rock).

What Ludwigs are suitable for more agressive styles (metal...)

Originally Posted by mrmike186

I am willing to bet that your budget could have many options on the used market, anything from a Tama Starclassic Performer, Grestch Renown, Ludwig Classic Maple, Pacific Platinum series, Pearl MCX. These are all pro quality looking and sounding kits that would work quite well for rock and pop.

Thanks, will have a look at those

Carlos Perez

[claend]

What's your take on the virgin vs non virgin kicks for recording purposes?? I've read diferent opinions...

Cheers!

[chrisso]

22" is an all purpose standard.

Virgin kicks?
Well virgin shells were designed to resonate freely without hardware.
This works brilliantly with toms.
Bass drums tend to be damped in some way, either with the type of head used, or with some material like a pillow or small blanket.
If you use any damping, the virgin bass drum sort of loses it's relevance.
Having said that, I have mostly virgin bass drums. A little more because I like my mounted toms on stands so I can position them more flexibly.

[claend]

Thanks Chris!

22"W, noted, what about deep standards?

It's seems the virgin/non-virgin is not so relevant for you (no pun intended!). Anyone else??

I tend to edit toms depending on type of drummer/music, so probably no big deal for toms either. (picking up vibrations from kick, etc...)

Originally Posted by chrisso

22" is an all purpose standard.

Virgin kicks?
Well virgin shells were designed to resonate freely without hardware.
This works brilliantly with toms.
Bass drums tend to be damped in some way, either with the type of head used, or with some material like a pillow or small blanket.
If you use any damping, the virgin bass drum sort of loses it's relevance.
Having said that, I have mostly virgin bass drums. A little more because I like my mounted toms on stands so I can position them more flexibly.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by claend

Thanks Chris!

22"W, noted, what about deep standards?

It's seems the virgin/non-virgin is not so relevant for you (no pun intended!). Anyone else??

18" depth is the more modern standard. It used to be 14 or 16.

I would prefer a virgin kick for the reasons Chris mentioned. And I also like having a kick with more resonance, tone and boom than I need, because I can always alter those qualities. Trying to make up for a kick that lacks those qualities is much more difficult.

[claend]

Originally Posted by Jax

18" depth is the more modern standard. It used to be 14 or 16.

I would prefer a virgin kick for the reasons Chris mentioned. And I also like having a kick with more resonance, tone and boom than I need, because I can always alter those qualities. Trying to make up for a kick that lacks those qualities is much more difficult.

Good points, you guys rock!

[Grumblefoot]

Also if buying used please check to make sure the edges are solid and that there are NO gaps.

How to test drum bearing edges | recording hacks

[mikethedrummer]

Originally Posted by Grumblefoot

Also if buying used please check to make sure the edges are solid and that there are NO gaps.

How to test drum bearing edges | recording hacks

That is awesome thank you for that!

I didn't see anyone else mention it so, make sure you have some really nice cymbals. You can make a cheap drum kit sound good with new heads and tuning (or samples )
BUT you can NEVER make an awful or broken cymbal sound better. NEVER.

If you get a pack of cymbals you usually get an extra one for free as well so look into that. Do NOT get bronze cymbals. They are cheap for a reason.
Zildjian just bumped up their manufacture's warranty up to 2 years, I dont know about other companies, but that is a great deal. If my crashes last 6 months its impressive..

The idea of a house drum kit is knowing no matter who walks in the door, you can make the drum kit sound like a drum kit.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer

Do NOT get bronze cymbals. They are cheap for a reason.

Basically all cymbals are bronze.
Maybe you should change that to 'budget' cymbals.
Also, the cymbal packs are often 'budget'. I'm not a fan of cymbal packs.

If my crashes last 6 months its impressive..

Ouch. Crazy man.

[MaxyPants]

Originally Posted by claend

Dear drumheads ,

I run a small studio that includes a room whitch i rent to 2 bands for their practisse needs. Given the space is limited, I'd like to buy a drumset -excluding cymbals- for both bands, whitch could also work for my recording needs. Now, I'm not a drummer, and would like to know whitch kind of drums would be appropiate for this situation.

My main focus is pop to loud rock and everything in between, 2nd hand market is fine and would like to keep it in the ballpark of 800€.

i know it's a very general topic, but given my limited knowledge of brands/woods/specific uses, any suggestions will be highly apreciated.

Carlos

If you could spend some time on cragislist or searching pawn shops, garage sales, etc. you could try to find a 60's keystone or 70's green/olive badge ludwig kit. They are very versatile for many genre's and have a great thrashy rock sound. I got my 60's Black Diamond Pearl Keystone Ludwigs for $600 and they sound amazing!

*EDIT* Thrashy and LOOSE rock sound

[claend]

Hey,

I've spotted a demo Ludwig accent at a really good price, do you think it will be good for my needs (please see post #1)

Thoughts??

[Jax]

I'd skip the accent line, unless you happen to find a used Zep kit. The Zeps sound more than decent and they'd be great rock (26, 13, 16, 18).

[claend]

Thanks guys...

Another option:

I've found a local selling a Mapex Saturn whitch looks new for less than half the price new.

Kick: 22"x18" virgin
toms: 10"/13"/14" (don't know D)
He also would include a mainstream metal snare, a yamaha pedal and some stands (not all)

Seems like a good deal to me, maybe not a real ultra-top-knotch drumset, but just below it from what I've read...

Opinions/experiences considering my needs??? (please see post 1)

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by claend

Thanks guys...

Another option:

I've found a local selling a Mapex Saturn whitch looks new for less than half the price new.

Kick: 22"x18" virgin
toms: 10"/13"/14" (don't know D)
He also would include a mainstream metal snare...

Seems like a good deal to me, maybe not a real top-knotch drumset, but just below it from what I've read...

Opinions(experiences considering my needs??? (please see post 1)

I would bet the sizes are 10/12/14. If thats the case then I would go for it. Mapex Saturns are a quality kit.

[medearis]

About 18" kicks - THEY HAVE BAWLS!
There are tons of people in the Texas music scene (I'm sure elsewhere too!) that are using the Catalina Club Jazz kits for EVERYTHING. I live in a metal & jazz-centric town (VERY strange, I understand :P) and I ALWAYS see those 18" kicks. Do not let the size of the drum make you think it's for a certain style. EVER. Sound is sound, bawls is bawls.

Small drums. Big voices. It's possible, as y'all know!

[claend]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

I would bet the sizes are 10/12/14. If thats the case then I would go for it. Mapex Saturns are a quality kit.

Thanks for your response, but those are the real measures. Seems that he is downsizing a 8 pieces kit (2 kicks) and selling the shells he's using less. I guess I could get a 16" FT or a 12" T further if necessary.

You guys think that the (10/13/14) toms might sound weird together for general purposes??

Thanks!

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by claend

Thanks for your response, but those are the real measures. Seems that he is downsizing a 8 pieces kit (2 kicks) and selling the shells he's using less. I guess I could get a 16" FT or a 12" T further if necessary.

You guys think that the (10/13/14) toms might sound weird together for general purposes??

Thanks!

Yeah, I would not be comfortable with that arrangement as a player. Doesn't mean it couldn't work but I think you might be limited in some respects. That said, the Saturns are great shells. If you can fill in the gaps later its still a value