darken the sound of cymbals ?

[hankdrummer]

i have this cymbal set - you can listen to a clip of it here
MASTERWORK TROY BECKENSATZ - Cyberstore International Français

my cymbals have more nasty overtones than the ones in the clip (these are hand hammered and not every models sound the same), and overall, i'd prefer a darker sound. the darker the better !

any tips & tricks to get it to sound darker ? sand it ?

i'm not looking for "industry standard" sounding cymbals. i'm not afraid to experiment

thanks

[phaqu]

The obvious would be to take your "not as dark as you want" cymbal to a drum shop and compare it to some potentially dark(er) cymbals they may have.
There is a cymbal forum somewhere (They got'em for everything now) on the net. Someone there would definitely have suggestions for you.
Im not a cymbal smith, just a cymbal breaker.

[John Eppstein]

Trade 'em in on some K. Zildjians.

[u b k]

Sabian aa's, the heavier ones... lovely, thick, dark, slow.

But if you're looking for gear to darken them, I'd have to say ribbon mics are the way to go, followed by some deep squeeze.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.

[Sk106]

yeah, cymbals is one of those things that you can't work around easily.

a few cheap tricks is to tape them, very discreetly. It will make them more dry, but also cause dead spots and sound generally more cheap and "tinny". Another trick is to use a spray bottle and spray water on them, just before you play. This makes for a subtly more darker and more dry sound, but you'll have to do it often because you play the moist and drops off pretty quick, and you'll have to deal with the drums, heads and drummer getting drops all over. (watch out for the combination of condenser mics and moist though)

Using specific miking can help too. Can't help there though. But if you have the economy, get the cymbals you need instead. Or at least start scouting for models that have the sound you prefer.

[musicbydesign]

If it all sounds good while playing maybe it's the mics you are
using. Also maybe the mics are too close? Is the room treated?
It'll be a nightmare if not. Like UBK said, give some ribbons a try.
As far as non-ribbon mic's, the Beyer Mc930 is excellent and smooth.

Daniel

[thenoiseflower]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

i have this cymbal set - you can listen to a clip of it here
MASTERWORK TROY BECKENSATZ - Cyberstore International Français

my cymbals have more nasty overtones than the ones in the clip (these are hand hammered and not every models sound the same), and overall, i'd prefer a darker sound. the darker the better !

any tips & tricks to get it to sound darker ? sand it ?

i'm not looking for "industry standard" sounding cymbals. i'm not afraid to experiment

thanks

Bury them

bake them or both, just let it cool first (ouch) dont cool it with water after you bake it either, tutt

Bury them for a couple seasons.

get all that ugly shine off there and replace it with earth.

clean it pretty good with water and shit.

done. play

OOOorrrRRRRR

you could just get some cymbals from roberto spizzinchino.

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

i have this cymbal set - you can listen to a clip of it here
MASTERWORK TROY BECKENSATZ - Cyberstore International Français

my cymbals have more nasty overtones than the ones in the clip (these are hand hammered and not every models sound the same), and overall, i'd prefer a darker sound. the darker the better !

any tips & tricks to get it to sound darker ? sand it ?

i'm not looking for "industry standard" sounding cymbals. i'm not afraid to experiment

thanks

I know I'm an idiot, but wouldn't it make sense to sell those cymbals and buy the cymbals which have the sound your looking for???

[SRS]

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

I know I'm an idiot, but wouldn't it make sense to sell those cymbals and buy the cymbals which have the sound your looking for???

You are NOT an idiot... this is the most obvious answer. Other than this most obvious fix... as for gear, try a large diaphragm condenser mic, like a KSM-32, and maybe like a Great River pre. That combination can tame the recorded sound some to be what might be called "darker".

You could try moongel on the upper bell portion. If you use moongel, make sure you use equal sized pieces of it (cut) and place it evenly on the bell (one piece on each side 180 degrees out from each other, or 3 little pieces placed 1/3 distance apart. Tiny amounts of tape can work too, as mentioned.

The water trick... is not one I would NOT (edit) advocate, especially if you like your drum shells, hardware and mics. My 2 cents.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

wouldn't it make sense to sell those cymbals and buy the cymbals which have the sound your looking for???

perfect sense.

[A2D]

try using ribbion mics on the OH's, works very well
also as mentioned you could try putting one strip of duct tape on the back side of the cymbal, from the bell to 3/4 the diamerer of the cymbal,

[Schneider]

Ive found that sizes will make more of an impact than the brand, audition some 17/18" crashes...

Although I'd have to recommend some HHX from Sabian, or K customs from Zildjan!

[joeq]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

my cymbals have more nasty overtones than the ones in the clip (these are hand hammered and not every models sound the same), and overall, i'd prefer a darker sound. the darker the better !

are you buying your cymbals over the internet?

some manufacturers are famous for consistency, but many others are equally famous for 'snowflake' style variation - i.e. no two are the same

buy your cymbals in a store, road trip if you must, and hear what you are getting


if you are dead set on keeping the cymbals you have, (whose sound you don't like, ) I would go along with the suggestions of ribbon mics and the suggestion to bury them in the back yard

the cymbals, that is...

burying your ribbon mics in the back yard will result in a sound that is too dark

[You_Father_Sky]

Bottom line: you want dark cymbals? Get DARK cymbals.

There is no point in trying to get the tone you want after the fact, go to the source. My main crashes are a set of vintage 70's era 20" Avedis Zildjians. THOSE are dark, warm and have had 30 years to be broken in.

[paulreed]

if you don't want to replace your gear, buy more, or wait a few seasons for mother nature to do her thing, maybe try using some eq on what you have recorded.

[rty5150]

well, also, guys, if the "client" brings in some cymbals that are bright(not like this particular situation), i like to darken them a bit by running them into some ribbons and into a transformer based preamp to soften the top and bump up the bottom. fatheads into my isa428 work wonders for this.

[andychamp]

If you HAVE to go the taping route, here's a better alternative.
Although I'd consider replacing the cymbals altogether the best option.

[Jeff16years]

my new thing is big, heavy cymbals. 18+20" heavy crashes, 22" heavy ride and 14" heavy hats.

i wouldn't call it a dark sound, there is still a lot of top end, it's just a little warmer (for lack of a better word)

-jeff

[SoSueMe]

Another vote for Zildjian Ks. Also don't buy sound unheard, and play with a variety of sticks, weights, and tips.

[drtechno]

keep zildjens clean; sabanes and paistes dirty.

try a different felt washer diameter. this effects the bell of the cymbol, where the higher frequency harmonics are produced. also a little electrical tape in the bell area undernieth works too.

[j2dafo]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

Trade 'em in on some K. Zildjians.

or better yet, some istanbul agop's.

I will echo those that said it makes most sense to ditch these and buy some more suited cymbals to your needs. Never buy cymbals w/o playing them, unless you trust the soundfiles someone posts. (cymbalsonly.com)

If you are stuck with them, try different sticks (more specifically different kinds of wood and tips), try burying them and baking them, as suggested.

My darkest cymbal is a flat ride (darker to begin with) that was salvaged from a music store that was set ablaze to collect insurance money. The cymbal soaked up all that smoke, turned a bluish color with hints of green, and now sounds like no other cymbal out there.

and um, yeah, ribbons for cymbals is always worth a shot

[Clayphish]

I can't stress enough to you that you're not going to get the sound of these cymbals if your cymbals aren't even close to these. You could throw as much dirt on them, bake them or whatever; the only thing you're going to get is a deader/dryer sounding instrument. The thing about dark cymbals is that while they sound dark they still have a tremendous amount of overtones, but they're more complex in nature and therefore more musical. It is this that makes them pleasant to listen to and very expressive sonically. So, if you take the overtones of your cymbals away by conflicting with how the cymbals vibrate you're not going to even remotely get to where these cymbals are.

If you want similar sounding cymbals, you're going to have to go with either brilliant K's or A customs (or Sabian, etc. equivalent).

Hope this helps.

[tysonviolin]

Coles ribbons.

[usefullidiot]

reverse over them with your car

[toolskid]

Its almost impossible to get anything really dark sounding off the shelves nowadays, the trend is really for heavy bright cymbals, especially zildjians and sabians. The istanbul mel lewis agops can be decent, but harder to find nowadays, and you could check out the Dream Bliss series . You can look for old A zildjians on ebay but they won't really be trashy. If you want REALLY dark and trashy, contact Matt Nolan Custom cymbals. He can make you some crazy good stuff in stainless steel (or more regular materials). Otherwise, you can check out Steve Hubbacks stainless steel work if you can find any!

[tapehiss]

zildjian makes these amazing cymbals called "K custom dark crash"


"K custom dark ride" etc.................

trust me, these cymbals are amazing and truly are as dark as you'd ever need a cymbal to sound while still remaining musical!




bbboooooyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!

[RoundBadge]

can't beat old Zildjian A's and K's from the 40's/ 50's..ribbon mics help too.tape can work but will deaden the sustain if you use too much

in a pinch i sometimes spray the cymbals[away from the mics!] w/ this stuff:

Discount Dulling Spray Clear Coatings - The Man Store

wipes off when your done

[tapehiss]

you can also spread strawberry or blueberry yogurt over the cymbal with a paint brush and this really gives it a dark, yet musical resonance, depending on what flavor.

[eusagc]

Hhhhmmmm... Yogurt...

[stellar]

I will sell you my super dark zildjian ride. its vintage...

or use 57s