Which drumheads for oldschool sound?

[andychamp]

Hi there!
I'm about to re-skin a Sonor Force 2000 kit to give it an "oldschool" sound.
I know that there are more factors than just the heads here (tom size for one, room, mic technique, etc...), but ya gotta start somewhere...
A few examples of what I'm going for: loud BigBand drums like Louie Bellson, Gene Krupa, Motown, Phil Spector, James Brown, Bonham, White Stripes, the drums on "Raising Sand"(reportedly real calfskin).

Keywords are: open & resonant. I want Tone!

P.S.: I'm not a drummer myself

[drumzealot]

Coated single ply on top
clear single ply on the bottom.
The very subtle differences between brands won't make much of a difference to anybody other than experienced drummers.

Plus there are a few threads addressing this somewhere in the Drums! sub forum.
Try searching for vintage sound.

[AKCSTUDIO]

Remo
coated white emperor on top
ambassador coated on bottom

[Dr. Mordo]

You'll want single ply heads; double ply heads didn't happen until the late 60s
early 70s. It's fun to put dot heads on the kit to get a pretty distinctive 70s sound.

Ideally you'll have drums that are bigger than most modern kits - 13" mounted tom, 16" inch floor, 22"-24" kick. Then you'll want to tune them tighter than most modern drummers would normally tune them, and run them with no muffling. Tune them up till they are a bit choked just from the tension; you'll get a lot of attack but not much sustain.

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by Dr. Mordo

(...)Then you'll want to tune them tighter than most modern drummers would normally tune them, and run them with no muffling. Tune them up till they are a bit choked just from the tension; you'll get a lot of attack but not much sustain.

The 1st really helpful tip on tuning after YEARS of asking pro drummers.
Thank you very much!

[AKCSTUDIO]

Ok i meant to get a old drummer ha ha

[Rolf Fiesel]

Yup the oll black dots on all toms & kick tune them up really hi-prefer
concert toms and no dampening on anything

[toolskid]

Originally Posted by andychamp

Hi there!
I'm about to re-skin a Sonor Force 2000 kit to give it an "oldschool" sound.
I know that there are more factors than just the heads here (tom size for one, room, mic technique, etc...), but ya gotta start somewhere...
A few examples of what I'm going for: loud BigBand drums like Louie Bellson, Gene Krupa, Motown, Phil Spector, James Brown, Bonham, White Stripes, the drums on "Raising Sand"(reportedly real calfskin).

Keywords are: open & resonant. I want Tone!

P.S.: I'm not a drummer myself

For a good open and resonant sound, I'd recommend single plys (as people have said before) but try to tune both heads to an equal pitch to really open up the drums. The tighter you tune the bottom head, generally the more you'll choke the drum. I wouldn't recommend spending all that cash on calfskins unless you are well used to working with them! They can sound like nothing else, but require careful attention!!

[Dr. Mordo]

That's a good point - I have read and heard for years that generally when you tune drums the top head defines the pitch of the drum, while the bottom head controls the sustain. I personally haven't experimented with it as much as I could, but I play big drums and run them tight so uncontrolled sustain isn't such a problem for me.

Pre-70s drummers needed a short, controlled, but loud sound because of the lack of good amplification for drums. They needed clarity and volume. That's why they tuned them higher and used little muffling - the drum was louder than if it was tuned loosely, but still had a clear attack so the listener could hear what the drummer was doing.

Nowadays we use double ply heads, tune them way down (and often muffle them) but mic all the drums so the attack is very well defined, but there tends to be so little tone that all you hear is the attack. This creates a scooped out sound that makes space in the mix for other instruments, but it's very easy for the kit to sound very thin.

Both sounds are great in the right application, and not great in the wrong application. There's no such thing as a bad drum sound, just an inappropriate one.

[Pawel]

Remo Fiberskins are awesome heads for a vintage sound, they try to emulate calfskin heads and the tone is fabulous.

Remo - Products - Fiberskyn 3

FA is the ambassador weight and FD is the diplomat, but they're heavier than normal ones, so I'd go for the FD to have the same weight and feel of a classic coated ambassador.

Remo batter: Coated Ambassadors or Fiberskin FD.
Remo resonant: Clear Ambassadors.

Evans batter: Coated G1 or J1 Etched for a more jazzy sound.
Evans resonant: Genera Resonant or G1 Clear.

I'll tune the resonant head slightly higher than the batter head, just a little to maximize the resonance.

[skylabfilmpop]

man I heard the Remo Vintage A's the other day they were great!

[Dr. Mordo]

After many quality control issues, I'm done with Remo. And since I can't stand the brittle sound of Evans heads, that leaves Aquarian, which fortunately I love. I've been thinking of trying some other brands like Attack and maybe Ludwig (I understand they still make their own heads, but I'd do some research before I bought). Aquarians tune up faster and easier, sound great, and have fantastic customer relations. If you haven't tried Aquarian heads, you really, really should.

So, I'd buy Aquarian Texture Coated or maybe the Modern Vintage, which have a thicker coating and so have a more succinct sound - somewhere between a single and double ply. I actually love the MV heads, and they will be on my kits from here on out. Just enough ring to be interesting, but just enough control to be easy to record.

The Vintage A's are pretty interesting. If memory serves they are a double ply head with the two plies having different thicknesses. I have done pretty extensive searching on the history of plastic drumheads, but have never found any very good info on the timeline and description of the early plastic heads. So, I wonder if these truly are like the early Remos. They may very well be, but, if so, I think it's very interesting that the first plastic head Remo introduced was double ply. That seems like it'd be a later technology.

I will add, however, that to me the Fiberskyn and Renaissance are the most interesting heads Remo makes. They are both different from just about anything anybody else makes. They are, however, very different from most heads so if you don't like the sound you are SOL. I'm not saying don't try them; I'm saying know that they are a completely different thing from what you may be used to.

[slingudwig]

I use Aquarian American Vintage heads for my set only because the drums are late 1940's Slingerland Radio Kings. This means that the drum heads need to be a little on the big side to fit the drums. They do make regular fitting heads for a more modern kit.
Aside from the John Bonham, size 12x14 ride tom, the sizes are the same as Krupa and Rich.

These heads sound like calfskin and look a little like them too. They are Medium. Batter and Resonant.
-Don

[soundsundergroun]

Remo Vintage Emperor.

[TheBlade]

[slowdive]

Originally Posted by soundsundergroun

Remo Vintage Emperor.

BY FAR. I put these on my '67 Ludwig set and the sound is so amazing.

Highly recommended.