Kick Heads Coated Ambassador vs .....

[skylabfilmpop]

I am dialing up a 24" Yamaha Maple custom kick and am curious, will changing the reso head from a remo coated ambassador to either a smooth white or Ebony of the same weight gain me what in terms of sound. Also How does a smooth White PS3 batter compare to a clear PS3? Thanks!!

[dudeitsree]

Originally Posted by skylabfilmpop

I am dialing up a 24" Yamaha Maple custom kick and am curious, will changing the reso head from a remo coated ambassador to either a smooth white or Ebony of the same weight gain me what in terms of sound. Also How does a smooth White PS3 batter compare to a clear PS3? Thanks!!

You probably wont notice to much difference between the Coated Smooth or Ebony, they are different films that they get from dupont but I only notice the difference when using them on the batter side. I have had great results with P3 clear on batter and Smooth white or ebony on reso with a bit of dampening on both heads, or depending on the sound I'm going for Ambassador on the batter and p3 on the reso. I always use a p3 reso always have I guess.

[skylabfilmpop]

Ok I also have a 22". I just replaced the heads with an evans emad batter and EQ3 resonant. Holy )&$&!$)$ I havent even reall ytuned it beyond the wrinkles and it sounds massive. Is all that bass coming fro the emad?? Should I go emad on my 24???

[Karate Kenneth]

I use an EQ3 Batter and Fiberskyn Resonant on my 18" bd, and it sounds like my old 22".

As for your choice on Resonant head, I don't think it matters that much.
Though Fiberskyn is great if you want that vintage look, along with some deeper bass.

My 2 cents on this...

[Animal2612]

Please try the aquairian super kick 2! Is shits on the emad!

[Musiclab]

I prefer the remo coated ambassador and the ebony head for reso. I prefer to do the muffling myself all those pre muffled heads make the drums sound like pizza boxes to me.

[Animal2612]

have u tried the aquairian?

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Animal2612

have u tried the aquairian?

A great drummer named Richard Crooks came here with a 62 Gretsch kit with Aquarian heads. I thought it sounded very good. For me I prefer to do the muffling myself rather than have pre muffled heads

[dcrigger]

Originally Posted by skylabfilmpop

Ok I also have a 22". I just replaced the heads with an evans emad batter and EQ3 resonant. Holy )&$&!$)$ I havent even reall ytuned it beyond the wrinkles and it sounds massive. Is all that bass coming fro the emad??

Actually there's no more bass there than there was before, just massively less highs and mids. And IMO the Emad goes too far in killing those freqs, giving the drum a boomy, boxiness that one has to then use large amounts of EQ to try and correct - which never (again IMO) sounds as good as just getting the damping right in the first place.

And as I find damping needs changes as the drum moves from room to room, from style to style, and often from song to song - such an aggressive factory-set approach to muffling (the SK Aquarian series being even worse in this regard) is of zero use to me as a player or as a engineer/producer.

Should I go emad on my 24???

I guess my answer is pretty obvious from the above. Actually IMO the biggest sound to coaxed from your 24" was the one to be had from the head that you took off - nothing beats a straight-up coated Ambassador for a sound that "jumps off the tape" with life and energy.

David

[dcrigger]

Originally Posted by Animal2612

have u tried the aquairian?

yep - not a great experience.

Had a rental set show up with one - an SK2. I guess if you like the one sound it is capable of making, it would be great. But need or want something even slightly different and your stuck. As the engineer on that date commented - who didn't like it either - it completely tied his hands, it was though someone had already EQ'd the crap out of the sound leaving nothing for him to do... and not liking the way the sound fit in with the music at hand, leaving really no way to fix it.

If you think about - the means to altering a drum head's frequency response is pretty visually and physically accessible. Damping the edge of the head inhibits the highest frequencies, damping the center of the head kills the fundamental - with all of the rest of the frequencies lying in between. Thinking of the head like an archery target - you'd have all these concentric rings - each representing a different frequency range. And each ring basically works like a slider on passive graphic eq - the more damping applied to a ring, the more it's corresponding frequency is dialed out.

Now traditional BD muffling methods - felt strips, pilliow, blankets, towels - all affect their muffling across a cross section of the head - usually more of the edge, a little less of the near edge, and a smaller amount part way between the edge and the center.

But most pre-muffled heads typically dampen entire rings - full circles. With something like a PS-3 with a minimal, plastic ring around the entire edge - this can work pretty well and still be pretty versatile - as most of the time, we are wanting a good portion of the highest frequency's removed. But of you look at the positioning of the muffing rings on the SK series as well as the emads - notice how far they are positioned into the body of the head. On the SK's, these non-adjustable muffing rings literally decimate the frequencies that lie below them - and because they are applied full circle, they suck out every last bit of those frequencies, yet leave the surrounding frequencies un-touched. Creating a result not unlike someone heavy-handedly attacking the bass drum sound with a mediocre graphic eq - but one that only had a full on or full off switches per band instead of sliders.

The biggest sound a drum can make is the unmuffled one - yet that sound is rarely what we're going for stylistically. The trick IMO for a big recorded sound is to damp the drum down only as much as needed to hit the mark stylistially AND NO MORE. As every by every bit that you overshoot the muffing, you make the drum sound smaller. For me, at least in some frequencies, the SK series way overshoots the mark - and it does it for every stylistic situation I can imagine.

But, like everything - if it works for you - great, go for it.

David

[Legacy Audio]

Originally Posted by dcrigger

...nothing beats a straight-up coated Ambassador for a sound that "jumps off the tape" with life and energy.

I'd agree with this statement.

A felt strip for dampening, no porting and you've got a drum that's open and a little nasty.
Ambassador's make drums sound like drums.
Anything with a ring or vent hole just robs the resonance and life from the drum. Moongel can be just as bad.

I think the modern engineer hasn't got a clue what drums actually sound like and I rarely hear a record anymore with a real sounding kit. Way too much muffling, damped heads, close micing and sound replacing.

Not sure what I'm talking about? Listen to any Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa or Zeppelin record to reacquaint yourself.

[firby]

I have a 22 or 24 inch gretsch stop sign bass drum and it really seems to like the aquarian head. It has an emad on it now and it is more adjustable but just not the same. If whatever head is not doing it for you consider swapping the beater. Personally I like the aquarian with a cherry wood beater. It's just right for that drum. The emad that I have is acrylic though, if they have those in coated that may be the thing. The cool thing about the emad is that you can pull the ring out and run it wide open like a jazzer. But, I just don't like acrylic heads on that drum