New wave of drumming/drummers

[CISUM]

I will be the first to say that drumming is my life, and everything have to do with drums I am in love with.

But it depresses me to a certain degree to see drummers now a days focused too much on speed, blast beats, and who can do the most mind blowing ambidextrous thing behind his kit.

I grew up learning and listening to guys such as Weckl, Gadd, Chambers etc. Even though these guys are gods at what they do, and can never be talked down upon, but they did all the fast mind blowing things with passion and fitting, FITTING in the song...

Now I see guys just playing fast, just to play fast. Guys who want to do just about anything because they are naturally got fast hands and feet and call themselves drummers.

Look i love Thomas Lange, but can never compare that guy to Weckl nor anyone else on that level. Even some guys in the WFD comp's... is it all about speed now?!?

Dont know just my thoughts on this, what are yours?

[rico52]

I remember what a top local drummer was told during a session with a well known singer. "Save all that fancy stuff for your own album"

Listen to "Band of Gold" by Frida Payne.............not even a crash hit.......................but what a deep groove!!!!!

[Goliath|Audio]

I don't know. Listen to Adam Dietch. Scofield wouldn't play with him if he couldn't groove.

[cortisol]

Well it is easier to learn to play fast than it is to learn to play with phrasing. It's easier to copy than it is to be stylically unique. Then just put these things together and you get most of the drummers out there!

I really can't say if this is new or not but I do think it is a shame whenthis mentality makes its way into musical styles be it metal or fusion etc.

Speed and co-ordination are easy goals to envisage. People feel like they need to prove their worth as a player of guitar, sax, drums, you name it by getting caught up in such things never thinking that to phrase with taste whether it be simple or complex is the goal.

But saying this I also find that groove players can sometimes have nothing to offer stylistically as well. Just a goove.

I think Thomas Lang has succeeded in making a profile for himself and generated some level of fame within the drumming community but there are things in his playing that are very amateur. He seems to ramp up in his meter as he executes his complex patterns. Like he can't start at the desired tempo and sorta revs up to it. At least I heard him doing this on his creative control DVD. I must admit that some of the displaced rudiments he does between his hands and feet where he shifts the rudiments in increments of 16th etc sound nice. I don't think he can hear it and pick out the golden phrases it generates - they are just patterns to him but they remind me of some of Danny Careys work on Lateralis and are quite musical.

I quite like Morgan Agren. He can improvise and phrase quite freely as an improviser and maintain geoove and energy through really complex phrasing and time signatures. You can hear and feel that that guy lives and breathes music.

I think Dennis Chambers is amazing and its funny to consider how he can play fast powerful and syncopated 16th lines much like the technique of Death Metal drummers and yet the results are polar opposite. The Death Metal drummers aren't playing 16th in syncopation and so all of the phrasing of the genre is samey and they bully through the technique to do it. The sound of struggling! LOL.

There are exsceptions though.

Peace,
cortisol

[CISUM]

Originally Posted by cortisol

Well it is easier to learn to play fast than it is to learn to play with phrasing. It's easier to copy than it is to be stylically unique. Then just put these things together and you get most of the drummers out there!

I really can't say if this is new or not but I do think it is a shame whenthis mentality makes its way into musical styles be it metal or fusion etc.

Speed and co-ordination are easy goals to envisage. People feel like they need to prove their worth as a player of guitar, sax, drums, you name it by getting caught up in such things never thinking that to phrase with taste whether it be simple or complex is the goal.

But saying this I also find that groove players can sometimes have nothing to offer stylistically as well. Just a goove.

I think Thomas Lang has succeeded in making a profile for himself and generated some level of fame within the drumming community but there are things in his playing that are very amateur. He seems to ramp up in his meter as he executes his complex patterns. Like he can't start at the desired tempo and sorta revs up to it. At least I heard him doing this on his creative control DVD. I must admit that some of the displaced rudiments he does between his hands and feet where he shifts the rudiments in increments of 16th etc sound nice. I don't think he can hear it and pick out the golden phrases it generates - they are just patterns to him but they remind me of some of Danny Careys work on Lateralis and are quite musical.

I quite like Morgan Agren. He can improvise and phrase quite freely as an improviser and maintain geoove and energy through really complex phrasing and time signatures. You can hear and feel that that guy lives and breathes music.

I think Dennis Chambers is amazing and its funny to consider how he can play fast powerful and syncopated 16th lines much like the technique of Death Metal drummers and yet the results are polar opposite. The Death Metal drummers aren't playing 16th in syncopation and so all of the phrasing of the genre is samey and they bully through the technique to do it. The sound of struggling! LOL.

There are exsceptions though.

Peace,
cortisol

I hear what you mean. I dont think that Lange knows exactly whats goin on with his playing but rather he just plays it because of the pattern, rather than "notes" he is doing. He is still an amazing player, but just dont see any soul there.

Weckl, Chambers, great! But just dont seem to see the younger guys looking up to the guys of yesteryears, not as much, but more to joey jordison and other guys like that.

[chrisso]

It depends what circles you move in I think.
There have always been highly technical drummers who reputedly didn't groove.
There are still a lot of young drummers who play for the music, but the industry promotes the chopmeisters through clinics and advertising. It obviously sells gear. But if you ask fellow musicians and songwriters, they almost always want someone who can play the right thing at the right time and make the music feel good.

[VigilantSound]

People play their drums the way they do because they like playing that way! I play fast because it makes me happy! If you cant keep up, sorry for ya!

[tomdarude]

For some mind-blowin drumaction check out those 2 DVD´s

2 of my favourite drummers:



Daniel Lanois - "Here is what is" (get the premium edition from his website!!!)

with Brian Blade on drums....sick!!!!!


+

John Mayer "Where The Light Is" (Live In Los Angeles)

the trio stuff with Pino Palladino on bass and Steve Jordan (super sick!!!!) on drums.

[Beefsurgeon]

I think it all depends on what style of music you're talking about.

If you're talking about death metal or grindcore or whatever, I'd say that playing fast as hell and hitting hard and generally being a brute about it is exactly what the situation (and music) calls for.

Dave Weckl, Dennis Chambers, etc. established their reputations by ripping it up on fusion sessions. Sure they exhibit more finesse than some of the younger guys. Why? Because that's what the music called for. The songs and the tones of the other instruments called for a lower dynamic and a different style.

It seems to me that the young musical generation of any age is always accused of playing too loud, too fast, and generally not being as refined as their elders. How many jazzheads in the 70's cringed the first time they heard a Led Zeppelin record?

CISUM, you seem to imply that the drummers you hear these days are playing things that don't fit the songs they play. I'm curious to know who you're hearing that inspires such depression?

As for WFD competitions, I look at that as a sport which has nothing to do with music, and I sincerely hope that there aren't too many kids out there who decide to pick up the sticks just so they can try to win that silly thing.

[Santiago]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

Daniel Lanois - "Here is what is" (get the premium edition from his website!!!)

with Brian Blade on drums....sick!!!!!

+1 on that. Brian Blade is great in that he's always thinking of what suits the song. Sometimes this means he will play really complex stuff, and other times he will just stick to a really simple groove.

In both cases he is incredibly sensitive and soulful.\

Highly recommended!

[usefullidiot]

I think you just need to search out the good stuff....

There are a tonne of amazing players out there you just need to find them...

Mark Guiliana
Jim Black
Jeff Ballard
The above mentioned Brian Blade...

I agree with the OP sentiments but the distinction is this, these guys are musicians...Thomas Lang etc are drummers, they might be technically proficiant but there is a reason why T.Lang makes a living doing clinics and not gigs

The drumset is a very challenging instrument to play well, in the hands of a mature considered musician it can be a beautifully delicate and soft instrument.. at its worst it can be overbearing, dominating and crippling to any ensemble....

Seach out the good stuff and dont sweat the rest....it wont last anyway

[usefullidiot]

This is a clip of Jim Black, he is finding new limits for the instrument....an inspiration

YouTube - Carlos bica, Jim Black, Frank Möbus

[beef]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

the trio stuff with Pino Palladino on bass and Steve Jordan (super sick!!!!) on drums.

Deepest pocket around!!!

-the drummer in clutch is also a monster, with chops!

[Grumblefoot]

YouTube - Vadrum Meets Super Mario Bros (Drum Video)

[Batchainpuller78]

Originally Posted by chrisso

It depends what circles you move in I think.
There have always been highly technical drummers who reputedly didn't groove.
There are still a lot of young drummers who play for the music, but the industry promotes the chopmeisters through clinics and advertising. It obviously sells gear. But if you ask fellow musicians and songwriters, they almost always want someone who can play the right thing at the right time and make the music feel good.

Look here Chrisso I totally agree with this, Yet some technical skill might even be required to play normal parts.
It's like kung fu, you need to get very good, then once acquired this skill you only use the right amount of moves or effort to get the job done.

[Newcleardaze]

Seems that in the last 2 years I've had some young kids come in to record that had me scratching my head at their speed and dexterity (mostly metal/hardcore types)... but only one of the bunch (as i found out through out the recording) was able to really turn on the groove with some impressive turns when the music slowed down and intricacy was needed.

[CISUM]

Originally Posted by Newcleardaze

Seems that in the last 2 years I've had some young kids come in to record that had me scratching my head at their speed and dexterity (mostly metal/hardcore types)... but only one of the bunch (as i found out through out the recording) was able to really turn on the groove with some impressive turns when the music slowed down and intricacy was needed.

You know, its funny because I think there are two different drummers being created.

1-Is the type of individual who has a God given talent for lightening fast speed in both his feet, and hands. And being an extream ambidextrous

2-Then you have the drummer who was born a drummer, the guy who can keep a groove. Play to the song, and not feel the need to show off. Be the drummer everyone wants, and gets called upon for sessions.

I tell you, as time goes on, everything is made to be more simple and all. And drumming is just one of those things I see all over the LA area where you get a bunch of guys in a room and its almost a race for who can play the fastest and scream (try to ad least) the loudest.

Its sad, but well what can we do?

[HeavyG]

I think you have grown as a player. I also think it is more a matter of individual perspective. While i will will not disagree your mentioning of weckl and chambers as great players...i would suggest that they are self indulgent players that focus on themselves as much or more than the song. i see players like watts, ringo, porcaro, purdie, joey kramer, etc. as more groove/song oriented players. again....this is my perspective. i hear a beautiful dave matthews melody RUINED by some of carter beauford's jagged self indulgent playing (he is a virtuoso...for sure...and he can groove like on crash)...and it reminds me that you have a choice as a player...to play to the song AND BE A SUPPORTING PLAYER TO MAKE THE SONG BETTER....or to play self indulgently and call attention to yourself. LOOK AT ME...

[mdme_sadie]

Dunno, is this any different from the long running argument in guitar circles about more of less the same thing? "Shred" (or fretwanking) versus "Musicality" (or lack of technique). Seems all you've got now is drum shred! Consider it a good thing, with care it could bring in new interest in percussion and even in music in general, and you never know, you might end up with a few people that can combine speed and musicality and do something that you want to hear and emulate.

Not every new movement is bad, and at least this sounds like it's a genuine change rather than just a rehash, which to me makes it on premise at least sound exciting (even if that's shortlived).

Anyway everyone knows it's not about how fast you move, it's about how fast you sound.

[CISUM]

Originally Posted by HeavyG

I think you have grown as a player. I also think it is more a matter of individual perspective. While i will will not disagree your mentioning of weckl and chambers as great players...i would suggest that they are self indulgent players that focus on themselves as much or more than the song. i see players like watts, ringo, porcaro, purdie, joey kramer, etc. as more groove/song oriented players. again....this is my perspective. i hear a beautiful dave matthews melody RUINED by some of carter beauford's jagged self indulgent playing (he is a virtuoso...for sure...and he can groove like on crash)...and it reminds me that you have a choice as a player...to play to the song AND BE A SUPPORTING PLAYER TO MAKE THE SONG BETTER....or to play self indulgently and call attention to yourself. LOOK AT ME...

Here's my question to you, why hasnt DCI, ever contacted Joey Kramer for a how to video on drumming? Obvioulsy they did with Chad Smith, etc, but the fact is, Weckl and Chmabers make their money by being their own little show behind the kit.

I personally feel Joey Kramer is probably the most underrated drummer in history, he is great, but in the end he is apart of a band that kicks ass and makes good music. Guys like Weckl, Lange, Chambers, Mayers are all about show and speed, (not to take ANYTHING away from their talent of techniques they use), but really pepople are more or less amazed at what they do with speed and the ability to do more than one thing at a time.

I always thought the role of a drummer was to keep time, play the groove, and add something to the song, but with these guys I really think they are just in a league of their own and cant really be a part of a band, but will awlays be endorsed and making money of videos and etc.

Who knows, I see all these gossipl drummers now shredding their hearts out, and honestly it sounds good for 1 minute, but after that its ALL THE SAME EXACT THING!!!! Its boring, and its really mind numbing,

[Svein]

Check out Mute Math's drummer.

[HeavyG]

Originally Posted by CISUM

Here's my question to you, why hasnt DCI, ever contacted Joey Kramer for a how to video on drumming? Obvioulsy they did with Chad Smith, etc, but the fact is, Weckl and Chmabers make their money by being their own little show behind the kit.

I personally feel Joey Kramer is probably the most underrated drummer in history, he is great, but in the end he is apart of a band that kicks ass and makes good music. Guys like Weckl, Lange, Chambers, Mayers are all about show and speed, (not to take ANYTHING away from their talent of techniques they use), but really pepople are more or less amazed at what they do with speed and the ability to do more than one thing at a time.

I always thought the role of a drummer was to keep time, play the groove, and add something to the song, but with these guys I really think they are just in a league of their own and cant really be a part of a band, but will awlays be endorsed and making money of videos and etc.

Who knows, I see all these gossipl drummers now shredding their hearts out, and honestly it sounds good for 1 minute, but after that its ALL THE SAME EXACT THING!!!! Its boring, and its really mind numbing,

I COULDNT AGREE WITH YOU MORE, BRO...WELL SAID. In my book...a great drummer weaves a fabric that is the groove...some spin an elegant 3 button suit that fits like a glove...others spin a bright green thong with rhinestone sequins and do a pole dance.

[HeavyG]

Originally Posted by svein

check out mute math's drummer.

bravo...balls deluxe

[Animal2612]

Speed, power, controll, and groove should b the goal of every drummer. Guys like virgil donatti and dave wreckl combine all of these elements. That's why they're the best in the world.
Blast drumming has its place u agree but its just sacrificing groove and power for speed and controll, and every decent drummer knows to make them sing, sometimes u gotta hurt them! Blast drummers hit like girls which is why there drums sound weak.
All good sound replacement 2 the rescue!

[Sofa King]

Originally Posted by usefullidiot

This is a clip of Jim Black, he is finding new limits for the instrument....an inspiration

YouTube - Carlos bica, Jim Black, Frank Möbus

Im sorry, I dont get this.
Im not saying its bad.
one mans art is another mans unintelligible mess.
it just dosent make sense to me.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by HeavyG

.others spin a bright green thong with rhinestone sequins and do a pole dance.

man, I hope no one listens to my drumming and thinks it reminds them of a sequined thong!

[cgarges]

Jay Bellerose.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC