Mixing Virtual Drums

[imzadim]

Hi there,

I've been reading and learning a lot about mixing real drums on this forum and I'm trying to apply some of the principles on virtual drums. I work with Addictive Drums and EZdrummer and they both have a similar setup as far as mics are concern: Close mics (kick, toms, snare low, snare hi, hi-hat), room mics and overheads.

Since this is similar to the kind of tracks you would end up having when recording a kit in your studio I'm trying to emulate the usual work flow that engineers follow to mix real drums, but I'm a bit confused on a few points and don't know how far should I go with this process since I'm dealing with sampled drums.
I'm mostly confused about what the work flow should be and I'd love to hear some tips about it.

Basically I'm adding some comp/eq to the snare and the kick as well as some verb to the snare. Then I mix the whole thing into a bus (close mics, room, OH) and add compression with a bit less attack than the one I used for the other mics and maybe some eq.

Some of my questions would be how can I apply the parallel bus compression on this situation? how show I add reverb on the snare (before compression? after?) and the whole kit if needed? should I compress the room mic? If I send everything to a heavy compressor while keeping a clean version should I include the room and the OH on both versions? and very important: how this process differs from mixing a real performance? For example, am I going to far and I should just bounce each part of the drum separately (e.g snare=room snare+ OH snare+ snare Mic) and then mix them together and not worry about OH and room samples at the end?

I'm dying to hear some ideas on how should I route each mic, sample, etc. to get a realistic and good sounding drum mix. I know this will vary depending on the style and the song, but I'm just looking for guidelines.

Thanks in advance!!!

[Stevedresser83]

you could set up 4-5 auxes. a few reverbs then 2 auxes with the same input. One of these can be your "clean" aux while the other is par. comp aux. Try maybe only sending kick snare toms to these auxes. If you use verb on an aux its after comp/eq.

[imzadim]

Originally Posted by Stevedresser83

you could set up 4-5 auxes. a few reverbs then 2 auxes with the same input. One of these can be your "clean" aux while the other is par. comp aux. Try maybe only sending kick snare toms to these auxes. If you use verb on an aux its after comp/eq.

Do you mean something like this?

AUX1(clean)=Kick, snare, toms
AUX2(comp)=Kick, snare, toms
AUX3=Room+OH

Should I also compress AUX3 or just leave it alone?

(And you don't compress the verb)

[Heartfelt]

I use AD.

I program each track individually with an instance of AD on each channel. What I mean is seperate kick, snare, hh, each cymbal and each tom.

On each, I use or dont use OH or rooms, depending upon how it sounds.

This enables me to use Waves and Stillwell effects, instead of AD effects on each channel. This helps me sculpt each one pretty well and opens it up to run auxs in all kinds of scenarios, including verbs, multing of samples for snare, parrallel comp or w/e.

I will likely find a way on my next tune (I am 2 songs new to AD) to split it up more like a real kit... close mics and then rooms and OH.

Hope it helps to see another perspective.
Rob


PS, click on me to see my post in the example section to hear a song with AD.

[Track 7]

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I was under the assumption that the drum samples used in these types of programs were pre-eq'd and comped !

I know that the sounds in the program like EZ Drummer sound that way!
I have used them for years and even published some of the tracks and people flipped over them.
I've never eq'd or compressed any of them!

[Heartfelt]

Yes they are but at times, they may not sit well in a mix.

That is what I love about AD. I can use some sounds processed, or I can strip them down to mics only and rebuild them which ups the versatility.

[imzadim]

Originally Posted by Track 7

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I was under the assumption that the drum samples used in these types of programs were pre-eq'd and comped !

I know that the sounds in the program like EZ Drummer sound that way!
I have used them for years and even published some of the tracks and people flipped over them.
I've never eq'd or compressed any of them!

EZ Drummer is VERY compressed, and that's one reason I don't use it much. AD is not so much, so you have a lot to work with.

[Heartfelt]

I actually went and learned the right way (so to speak) in AD, this morning/last night.

If I have a performance on a track and an instance of AD on the same track, I can open the plug, choose create multichannel routing and it creates aux tracks fed from the channel with the plug for:
snare
kick
hh

tom1
tom2
etc..

OH
Room
Bus

That seems more realistic. and allows treating it like a kit and not random samples.

NOTE:
I also learned that I can keep my method of programming each element seperately. REAPER allows to have multiple midi tracks sent to a buss where the VSTI resides. That means I can have seperate midi tracks for each kit piece which makes editing very easy.

Hope that helps someone else too.

[squash it]

When programming in AD. I usually do 2 instances. One for Drums, One for Cymbals. I use multiple midi tracks for each instrument. I only use the built in effects if it is for a temp mix or working mix.

For the full mix, I bounce each one dry..then import into the PTHD, as I don't run Instruments on the mixing system.

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

I actually went and learned the right way (so to speak) in AD, this morning/last night.

If I have a performance on a track and an instance of AD on the same track, I can open the plug, choose create multichannel routing and it creates aux tracks fed from the channel with the plug for:
snare
kick
hh

tom1
tom2
etc..

OH
Room
Bus

That seems more realistic. and allows treating it like a kit and not random samples.

NOTE:
I also learned that I can keep my method of programming each element seperately. REAPER allows to have multiple midi tracks sent to a buss where the VSTI resides. That means I can have seperate midi tracks for each kit piece which makes editing very easy.

Hope that helps someone else too.

[Heartfelt]

I have to admit to being scared to commit :O)

But great to hear how someone else is doing it. Is there a reason you avoid running the VSTI?

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by squash it

When programming in AD. I usually do 2 instances. One for Drums, One for Cymbals.

Why? Does it sound better or something? I can send multiple MIDI tracks to one instance of AD using Cubase.

[imzadim]

Originally Posted by squash it

When programming in AD. I usually do 2 instances. One for Drums, One for Cymbals. I use multiple midi tracks for each instrument. I only use the built in effects if it is for a temp mix or working mix.

For the full mix, I bounce each one dry..then import into the PTHD, as I don't run Instruments on the mixing system.

I can see the logic on that. It would give you more control over the cymbals, which sometimes run wild. Especially since AD just create a virtual mix of the room and the OH by adding the samples, so it's not like you are missing on anything (like you would with a real drum recording)

[AMMusic]

Are these drums multi outs? Haven't used them but I do use Mixosaurus which uses the Kontakt Player. I route the outputs of each individual drum, the OH's, PZM's and Room mics to their own individual tracks (mono for each drums, stereo for OH/PZM/Room). I then arm each track and record them, that way I can get rid of the VI hogging up all my ram and CPU. This way I have dry tracks for every microphone used (like a real drum performance) and can eq/comp/reverb/paralell bus to my hearts content. Just an idea that works great for me .

AM