Pearl Masters Vs. Yamaha Maple

[wyattt]

I love my Pearl Masters Maple Retrospec kit, but I had originally wanted a Yamaha Maple or Absolute Maple it. There is something about Yamaha drums that I love.

Anyone care to chime in on what they see as far as differences between these two drum companies maple or birch kits? Or for that matter chime in on differences between the companies that have been around and were the primary kits around (Ludwig classic, Pearl, Yamaha, Premier, Mapex?, etc..)

[DFreshLeish]

Hey,
Im gonna go ahead and say Yamahas are the best drums out there, hands down. As far as masers vs. Maple custon nouvou (sp)...

Shells
When you compare the 6-ply version pearls to absolutes (since absolutes are all 6 play w 7play bass drum) the pearls tend to be slightly dampened in comparison. this is because pearls plys are thicker than most other drum companies. a thinner shell will resonate more. Because yamaha has such and advanced compression sytem for making their shells, they are able to keep them thin and resonant, without needing reinforcement rings which complicate tone and tuning in the high end ( a la DW).
Plus they are w hole lot lighter!

Hardware
Nouvou (sp) system = best lug system ever! Lowest mass system there is. Some people complain that they drill into the shell, but they drill into the drums nodal point (the point of least resonance in the drum) so it has ver little effect. Also, since the "lugs" and "recievers" are solid machined pieces, there is no air to trap sound, assisting in the tone. Also, yamahas hoops are aluminum diecast, giving the strength and focus of diecast and the resonance and light weight of aluminum

Mounting system
Again, Yamaha takes the cake here. Although the mount is drilled into the shell, like the lugs, it is drilled into the drums nodal point. Pearl masters system has the mount around the tension rods! so when u play, it is constantly pulling on the rods resuling in detuning and extra strain on flimsier lug hardware.

Just my opintion mixed in with a little fact. Happy drumming!

[wyattt]

Great information. I do love my pearls but I have always lusted for yamahas. The pearls seem closer to my friends starclassic maples. Yahama seems to be in their own area.

[Stixxs]

I've owned 2 sets of the Yamaha Maple Absolute's over time, and now own a DW Collectors.

The Yamaha are about the best you can get in that $ range. The shells ring like nothing else, the heads stay in tune, and miked up live i think the're the best I've owned.

...I'd buy another no problem.

[talkshowman]

Maple absolutes are nice, yeah, but NOTHING compares to the flagship Maple Customs. Fat isn't the word for those puppies, best drums I will ever play in my life (and this is coming from someone who drools over Ayottes, Craviottos, and Pork Pies. They're nice, but they ain't Yammies). Heavy though.

[Suspects]

Just got a Maple Custom Absolute Shell Pack last week (22x16, 10x9, 12x10, 14x12, 16x14) in cherry wood, and the construction is amazing - these things look like pieces of jewelry! I hate the Nouveau lugs, so I ordered the conventional Absolute lugs (still available by the way), so Yamaha considered it a "custom order" with an instant 12-week delivery time. Well worth it though, these are the easiest tuning drums I have ever encountered and they are really hold a tune. I would strongly recommend the Absolute lugs for anyone considering these drums. Oh yeah... they sound freaking fantastic.

I would join the chorus and say Yamaha makes some of the best drums in the world right now (although I'm somewhat biased, I've had a Recording Custom kit since the mid 90's).

My $0.02

Dave/Suspect Studios

[Jax]

I may be the only one in this thread who has a problem with my Yamaha Maple customs. I love the toms, but the kick has always been hard to work with. The kick doesn't have a lot of projection or tone with both batter and reso heads on. I've been playing it without a reso head and it sounds much better, but getting just the batter muffled properly isn't working.

I've tried deader heads, like Evans EQ3 (sounded terrible), blankets, Evans bass drum pillow, all kinds of tuning... all with mild degrees of success, but nothing that made me go WOW. At best, the kick is average to OK sounding. The one thing I still want to try is felt strips.

Also, the hoop is too thick to connect a pedal and have the kick lay flat on the floor. It has to be titled at a sharp angle to meet the beater at its parallel impact point (where the beater shaft is parallel to the head). I've got this part worked out, but not the tone.

Always been a little disappointed by the MC kick. I kept it thinking I could get it sounding on par with the rest of the kit.

[lokillo77]

I know this is a old tread but I want to put my humble two cents!!!!

I am a recording engineer so this is my point of view from the mixer!!!

Maple and specially birch pearl drums sound a lot better in a recording situation than yamaha maple shell!!! yamaha maple shell is loud but full of ugly harmonics

I got both kits in my studio!!! Personally I use a lot more my pearl masters studio cose I no need add EQ to clean toms I use yamaha recording in pop style musics but for me the one is the pearl masters studio birch!

The yamaha recording model sounds more like a any birch Pearl drum kit I think both are grate options!!!!!

[KickSnareHat]

I'm a busy performing and studio drummer and my Maple Customs I have owned for the past 12 years are by far the best sounding drums I've played. They are easily the cleanest sounding drums out there. (the maple customs are totally different and better than the absolutes, which are just ok in my opinion).

They do have some minor issues, including sometimes having too much sustain (yes, that can be a bad thing sometimes) and I also agree that the kick drum can take some work to get sounding good. I am finally adding some recording custom pieces for studio situations where I need a tighter sound, but the MCs are still the primary go to drums for me.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by KickSnareHat

I'm a busy performing and studio drummer and my Maple Customs I have owned for the past 12 years are by far the best sounding drums I've played. They are easily the cleanest sounding drums out there. (the maple customs are totally different and better than the absolutes, which are just ok in my opinion).

They do have some minor issues, including sometimes having too much sustain (yes, that can be a bad thing sometimes) and I also agree that the kick drum can take some work to get sounding good.

I can't compare my MC's to Absolutes, having never spent any real time with Absolutes. That said, I don't feel that I have to get to know them. The MC's are pretty great drums. The only thing I want to do is put RIMS on the toms, since I feel that the YESS mounts take away from the overall tone.

One question, though.

You mentioned the MC kick takes some tweaking to sound good. What do you do to get the most from the kick? Mine has never quite lived up to the rest of the kit.

[relayer]

I'm going to be the odd man out and suggest Pearl Masters Birch. It's all about taste though, and Yamaha Maple is too "Smooth Jazz" sounding for my personal preference. Yamaha Birch is another matter, but I've found Yamaha drums and hardware to be cumbersome. If budget isn't an issue, I'd look at Craviotto, Noble & Cooley, or vintage options.

Happy drumming.

Steve

[KickSnareHat]

Originally Posted by Jax

I can't compare my MC's to Absolutes, having never spent any real time with Absolutes. That said, I don't feel that I have to get to know them. The MC's are pretty great drums. The only thing I want to do is put RIMS on the toms, since I feel that the YESS mounts take away from the overall tone.

One question, though.

You mentioned the MC kick takes some tweaking to sound good. What do you do to get the most from the kick? Mine has never quite lived up to the rest of the kit.

Regarding the kick, I've found that it needs to be well dampened. I use Power stroke 3s for the heads and a pillow inside to deaden everything. Then I tune the heads a little above flappy. Playing it wide open or even with minimal muffling doesn't seem to work for it -- I've tried just about everything over the years. I had this almost exact same conversation with another drummer recently who came to the same conclusion about their MC kick. It may not seem like a huge sounding kick in a room with this approach, but it sounds really nice when close miked (studio and live).

[wuffb]

I have both a 1993 Yamaha Maple Custom kit in Vintage Laquer (7 piece) and a DW Collectors Series VLT in Twisted White Satin. Both kits are stellar to play on, but have differences.

1st) I like the Yamaha MC's (NOT Absolutes) the best. Have used many different heads and with each change they give a new sound . . . no surprise there. The Yammies are more focused, the thicker shells and die-cast alloy rims make for drums that are both warm and precise in pitch and tone for the studio. If you like melodic drumming . . . these are the stradivarious of drums. I have had them in the studio with the famed birch recording customs and thier clear focused tone is just a thing of beauty. As far as hardware is concerned . . . My Yamaha MC's are over 18 years old and being cared for, the hardware seems brand new. The drums are crafted so perfectly, I defy you to find the seams even in the VN finish. As far as appearance is concerned . . . with their gold lugs, natural finish and polished with Nomad drum clean/polish . . . well, other drummers in the audience are always coming up and complimenting on them. I use Evans EC2 heads or Remo Abassadors on the toms, coated Ambassador on the snare and Evans Emad batter on the bass with a kick port with DW bass pillow inside. The bass drum is a beautifully focused cannon.

2nd) I love the DW Collectors VLT's, but just a little less than the Yamaha MC's. The timbre matching shells and VLT shells do give me a deeper and more open range than the Yamaha MC's. When playing out, unmic'd . . . they sing and the floor tom sounds almost like a timpani. I don't like the DW lugs or rims, but their stands, clamps and other hardware are much more ergonomically friendly than the Yamaha hardware. The bass drum (a 23" neil peart) design is absolutely a room shaker . . . but keeps it's warmth and pitch with the standard DW heads that came with it - no Emad needed here. The look and finish of the white twisted satin is classic like the white pearl finish, but with a nod to famous "satin flame" finishes of the 60's and 70's on those old Slingerland drums. That being said . . . I hate the way "wrap" finishes seem to have sloppy seams. I am okay with wrap finishes for one reason only . . . Laquer finishes . . . especially the new "matte" rub finishes nick and scratch too easily.

Apple and Orange I know . . . but if I had to choose ONE . . . it would be the Yamaha MC's . . . by a whisker . ..

[cbdrummer44]

I've got a set of Pearl Masters Retrospecs and I've got a lot of experience with the Yamaha's. The Yammies take out the award for staying in tune but personally I like Yamaha's smaller toms (10" and down) and the Retrospec's bigger toms (12" +).

I can't really qualify that, it's just personal taste. The thicker shells really do it for me for the bigger drums and with the right head combination and tuning (I like to tune my reso heads up about a third from the batter) the Pearls are way more recordable without requiring a bunch of gaff.

I should also point out that with the Retrospecs they have the plastic wrap finish which will also dampen them, but that's pretty much why I bought em. Always get compliments from engineers on my sound. Lively but not unruly.

For gigging though I too lust after Yamaha's. No one likes lugging heavy drums. The thinner shells also sound way better from a drummer's perspective (as in sitting behind the kit but not out in front).

[Jax]

Originally Posted by wuffb

The Yammies are more focused, the thicker shells and die-cast alloy rims make for drums that are both warm and precise in pitch and tone for the studio.

Stock Maple Customs have triple flanged hoops. Mine does.

[wuffb]

Originally Posted by Jax

Stock Maple Customs have triple flanged hoops. Mine does.

I thought so too. . . Till I pulled out the original print material that came with the kit. Yamaha mc's were made with die cast alloy rims . . . Better than triple flange. The drum shells are thicker ply and very heavy as you know . . . Yamaha matched this shell with the alloy rims. Track down the original catalogue and you will find this info there.

[wuffb]

In case my other post did not go through . . . I also thought Yamaha mc's had triple flange hoops . . . But I was wrong . . . Read up on the specs from the original material / catalogues of these drums. They used die cast alloy rims . . . Far better than triple flange!

[Jax]

I'm thinking Yamaha printed the wrong information in their catalog. Die cast and triple flanged look completely different, and the MC hoops look exactly like triple flanged. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... it's triple flanged.

[mrmike186]

Is diecast better or just different?

[wuffb]

Originally Posted by Jax

I'm thinking Yamaha printed the wrong information in their catalog. Die cast and triple flanged look completely different, and the MC hoops look exactly like triple flanged. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... it's triple flanged.

Take a look Die-Cast Versus Triple Flange Hoops

It is confusing . . . note the base of the die cast rim looks like the triple flange . . . but the bearing edge (rim) is the same as the die cast!

Yamaha let's you choose from triple flanged, S hoop, aluminum die cast and steel die cast on their top line kits.

Gotta Love it . . . if it walks like a duck and talks like a monkey . . . well . . . now what??

[wuffb]

Originally Posted by Jax

I'm thinking Yamaha printed the wrong information in their catalog. Die cast and triple flanged look completely different, and the MC hoops look exactly like triple flanged. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... it's triple flanged.

JAX . . . I have the ANSWER!! Contacted Greg Crane at Yamaha (Drum Tech) . . . We are BOTH right . . .

Those hoops were called Power Hoops. Power Hoops were a cross between triple flange and die cast and were made from Aluminum….very cool hoops indeed!

[wuffb]

Drummerworld Discussion Quotes:

Yamaha Powerhoop:

"There used to be a 3.0 Power hoop (that looked like a Tripple but had the tickness of a Diecast) it was used on the Maple Custom and some signature snare line. To bad they discontinued it."

"If there ever was a PERFECT compromise between a die cast and triple flange, that was it."

[Jax]

Originally Posted by wuffb

Drummerworld Discussion Quotes:

Yamaha Powerhoop:

"There used to be a 3.0 Power hoop (that looked like a Tripple but had the tickness of a Diecast) it was used on the Maple Custom and some signature snare line. To bad they discontinued it."

"If there ever was a PERFECT compromise between a die cast and triple flange, that was it."

Cool! I did not know that. They sound great whatever the hoops are, and since they're sort of like heavy die cast hoops but with flanges, I'm going to eventually try some normal triple flanged hoops and see what it does to the sound. Thanks for the info!

I've also been wondering how they'd sound with 1.6mm triple flanged hoops, which are lighter than the 'standard' 2.3mm.

In answer to the question about whether or not die cast is better than triple flanged (or in this case, power hoops), it all comes down to personal preference. It depends what the drummer wants from the drum. But no, neither is better than the other.

From what I've experienced, die cast hoops are generally thought to 'dry up' the overtones from a head and drum, and make it easier to tune (because the overtones are less prominent). They also shorten sustain. Triple flanged are almost the opposite, allowing more overtones and harmonic content and longer decay.

[wuffb]

JAX: Another reason to NEVER sell these drums . . . they are AMAZING. You mentioned trouble with the kick drum . . . try using an EMAD batter head, with an Evans Resonator Head with a Kick Port and a DW pillow inside.

The sound I have from this kick drum now is nothing short of amazing. It is focused, with depth and serious "punch".

Happy Drumming!!

[seniorguy]

This is a first for me to participate in a forum but I noticed a common issue for many drummers in some of the posts. That issue is the difficulty in getting the bass drum to be punchy, tonal and solid without ring and without a pillow or some other object inside the drum. I believe if you place an object inside the drum and against the head to prevent ring and overtones you lose some of the punch and tone. So, I don't and won't. I spent a lot of money for an instrument with tone and punch and I don't want to kill it. My kit is Yamaha Custom Absolute Birch and I use a ring muffler but absolutely nothing else. I regularly have drummers come up and ask how I am getting the punch/tone combination from the bass drum without the annoying ring. Well, it is mostly in the tuning guys. It took me years to learn how to do it through trial and error. I find most students tend to tune the beater side tight to get more rebound and that often causes excessive overtones. They also don't understand how to tension the front head. IMHO, the key is balancing the 2 heads to prevent and cancel the unwanted frequencies. In most cases, that requires a looser tension than is often used. Tuning is an art and I'm not a expert but Dr. Drum is and he has some excellent information on turning that is real. I would guess you can still find his free "book" on the internet and it’s worth your study. Or, possibly someone who frequents this forum could share a copy with you. I also find birch bass drums are easier to tune and work well in the studio because they typically require a less EQing and you can really pull the tone I like from the wood. Honestly, I would say all the recognized top line manufactures make very nice drums and choice is often subjective or restricted by price. Buy something you like and can afford. The real deal is dedicating the time to practice, practice and practice. You can make any drums sound darn good if you have your chops up! Check out Dr. Drum.

[jsox2409]

Shannon Forrest who recently went Brady Drums played a Custom Yamaha absolute kit. His style is similar to Jeff Porcaro. If you're not familiar with his work you should check him out. Great groove and killer tones. If you listen to more recent Josh Turner or Darius Rucker CDs he is playing Yamaha absolute custom birch toms with a maple kick. The birch toms have less overtones but he likes the resonance and midrange of the maple kick. I'm really close friends with his drum tech and he uses a coated or clear ambassador on batter side of kick and a ported ebony ambassador reso head and uses felt strips to take the papery sound out of the batter head. He takes a piece of acoustic and cuts it to where it goes about 1/3 of the way up the drum and barely touches the heads He tunes the kick up slightly so that it has a pitch instead of just a deep thud with attack. I plan for my next kit to be similar to his with the birch toms and maple kick. Darius Rucker's song "This" really shows off his kick sound.

[wuffb]

JAX . . . you would appreciate this most . . .

I took each of my 7 piece Maple Custom Drums into the studio . . . "isolated each one" in a "dead" room and re-tuned them. While I have always been confident in my "higher toms" achieving clean pitch and tones, I have never been totally happy with my 12 - 14 and 16 suspended toms . . . sure they sounded great . . . but not REALLY great . . . until now.

After doing all that above, I took them out for a big gig last weekend . . . I cannot even begin to describe the beauty of the sound I got. Every single stroke was a joy, upper and lower toms. I was beginning to believe that to achieve that depth I would have to go birch, maple mahogany or bubinga or mixed wood kit. No more . . . After owning these drums for 18 years . . . I have finally given them the patient, individual tuning they deserve . . . and I can't believe the result.

If you haven't done this . . . try it . . .