tuning toms for pitch bend - a formula

[mistervenable]

Originally Posted by atari800

All-

A few months ago I picked up the DTS tuning system ( YouTube - DTS "One-Touch Drum Tuning System" ), which turns out to be pretty useful for quickly auditioning different head tension combinations. One of the things it's really good at is rapidly dialing in pitch bend on a tom. By sweeping through resonant head tensions while striking the batter, you can clearly hear the bend effect come into and out focus as you move through the zone in which it naturally occurs.

Curious, I began taking DrumDial measurements as I swept through tension ranges, top and bottom. What I've found is that true, deep pitch bend only occurs at one very specific combination of batter and resonant tensions. Those DrumDial measurements are as follows:

two-ply batter over single-ply reso: 75 over 68
single-ply batter over single-ply reso: 70 over 65

Not only that, but I've since tested these numbers on a fairly wide variety of toms, from a 10" DW birch fusion tom with G2s, to a huge 18" Ludwig classic maple floor tom with Hydraulics, and remarkably, they worked every time. The only variable, as noted above, is head selection: two-ply batters require the higher tension numbers to get in the zone.

I have to say, it's pretty cool to quickly tune a tom one head at a time, 75 over 68, flip it back right side up, hit it, and instantly hear pitch bend on the first strike. I tuned a friend's kit in a matter of minutes using this method and they were blown away by how good it sounded.

Note that tuning this way also moots the issue of pitching a set of toms. Since head tension is the same for each drum, pitch dispersion across the set is entirely relative to drum size. This is a great way to avoid selecting wildly incompatible pitches that wouldn't mesh as a group.

I'm curious if anyone with a DrumDial can duplicate any of this on their kit, with whatever heads they've currently got installed.

Thanks!

I'll give it a shot on Monday.... rock and roll!

[atari800]

Cool. Here are a couple samples.

The big toms are a $3,000 Ludwig classic maple Zep Set, 14", 16", and 18" with coated emperors on top and coated ambassadors on the bottom. The smaller toms are from a $400 Ludwig Accent CS silver sparkle kit -- 12", 13", 16" power toms, made of mystery wood ("select veneers") and with the stock mystery heads ("Made by Remo in China").

Close mics are Sennheiser e604s with a pair of Beyer M160s on overheads. A little eq to subtract a few db at 500hz and a little compression. Izotope Ozone on the two bus, -3 on the loudness maximizer. That's it.

Good tuning really equalizes the kits to an embarrassing degree. Not only that, but the cheap toms don't sustain as long as the maples, and so require no gating to shape the tail. Go figure.

[EstateMatt]

wow... those are some bad ass tom sounds.

[Jules]

I like the way this is going so I have copied it into the Tips & Techniques section..

Thanks

[atari800]

Cool thanks Jules. Generally speaking, the whole lack of standardized tuning thing was totally alien to me when I started recording drums. I'm still baffled how little there is in the way of accepted wisdom for pitch selection. Lots of information available for even lug tensioning, little for pitch selection. The fact that there do seem to be top and bottom head combinations which most experienced engineers would immediately agree sound "bad" suggests to me that we have more to learn.

When it comes to tuning by ear, I can't emphasize enough how much more effective this is with single-lug tuning systems. Being able to hear pitch relationships change in real time will teach you more in a week about what sounds good on a drum than you can learn in months of fumbling around with a drum key a quarter turn at a time.

Di Berardino drums come with the coolest single-lug system I've seen. Haven't tested them but would like to. At 2:14, watch this guy change a head in ten seconds:

YouTube - drum tuning sistem whith a single lug di berardino drums

[Chunkaway]

I'm not knocking you, but as a drummer those toms sound "tubby" and a bit flabby, if that makes any sense. I think you may be on to something, but whenever I have recorded in a studio, it seems I need to tune the drums up a bit higher than I think I should. (Drum dial numbers on my 8X12 Ludwig Classic Maple kit was a 77 on top and a 78 on bottom with a two ply head on top and a one ply head on bottom.) Every time I tune the toms low, like the ones on your recording, they wind up sounding muddy in the final mix. I'd love to hear your thoughts or comments on ways to avoid this problem.

[atari800]

That may simply be a characteristic of pitch bend on a tom. Pronounced pitch bend only occurs at low tunings, and definitely has a rounded sound that can be anything from disco to '80s metal. Here's a sample clip of 75/68 in a mix of the '80s metal variety, and also with the drums solo'd.

Edit: These are 10", 12", and 15" DW Collector's Series birch toms with Evans G2s on top and the stock single-ply clear heads on the bottom. Big eq scoop, lite compression, no gating. Ozone loudness maximizer at -3 on the two bus. Small, bright toms seem to maintain good clarity at low tunings.

[Chunkaway]

Originally Posted by atari800

That may simply be a characteristic of pitch bend on a tom. Pronounced pitch bend only occurs at low tunings, and definitely has a rounded sound that can be anything from disco to '80s metal. Here's a sample clip of 75/68 in a mix of the '80s metal variety, and also with the drums solo'd.

Edit: These are 10", 12", and 15" DW Collector's Series birch toms with Evans G2s on top and the stock single-ply clear heads on the bottom. Big eq scoop, lite compression, no gating. Ozone loudness maximizer at -3 on the two bus. Small, bright toms seem to maintain good clarity at low tunings.

Yeah, it sounds really nice in your mix. Hmm....now I'm wondering about the recordings I have played on.

[FW Harper]

Just bought a drum dial and tuned to your settings for single ply ambassadors over the stock clear coats on my 10, 12, and 14 DW maple toms. I finally have the sound I've been chasing after a little dampening with moongels. Works great. Thanks!

[uncle duncan]

For those who don't have a drum dial, would it be helpful to give a pitch reference? When I tried your drum dial numbers, the bottom head came out a minor or major third below the top head, which would explain the pitch bend effect.

With your lower tom tunings, what do you do about the hi tom making the snare resonate and rattle? I like a lower snare tuning, in the G to B range, and I always get big time snare rattle from the 10" hi tom, but not the 14" low tom.

[Doran Palmer]

I truly love this system, if I was building strictly a studio kit, this is the only way to go. Unfortunately with a price tag of 100 bucks US per drum a bit rich, quick turnarounds on busted heads, not bad because less time to re-tune. But the versatility to go from jazz, to metal to rock, country its awesome and very fast. Wish I could afford to own them.

Sense I've never purchased these only reviewed. My kit is 10, 12, 14, 16 toms, the DTS system as listed shows 13, 15, 16 as being available. Are these three sizes adjustable to work on all other size toms?? Didn't find the info at the site. Anyone know?? I'm assuming they are, but I hate to just assume.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by atari800

All-

A few months ago I picked up the DTS tuning system ( YouTube - DTS "One-Touch Drum Tuning System" ), which turns out to be pretty useful for quickly auditioning different head tension combinations. One of the things it's really good at is rapidly dialing in pitch bend on a tom. By sweeping through resonant head tensions while striking the batter, you can clearly hear the bend effect come into and out focus as you move through the zone in which it naturally occurs.

Curious, I began taking DrumDial measurements as I swept through tension ranges, top and bottom. What I've found is that true, deep pitch bend only occurs at one very specific combination of batter and resonant tensions. Those DrumDial measurements are as follows:

two-ply batter over single-ply reso: 75 over 68
single-ply batter over single-ply reso: 70 over 65

Not only that, but I've since tested these numbers on a fairly wide variety of toms, from a 10" DW birch fusion tom with G2s, to a huge 18" Ludwig classic maple floor tom with Hydraulics, and remarkably, they worked every time. The only variable, as noted above, is head selection: two-ply batters require the higher tension numbers to get in the zone.

I have to say, it's pretty cool to quickly tune a tom one head at a time, 75 over 68, flip it back right side up, hit it, and instantly hear pitch bend on the first strike. I tuned a friend's kit in a matter of minutes using this method and they were blown away by how good it sounded.

Note that tuning this way also moots the issue of pitching a set of toms. Since head tension is the same for each drum, pitch dispersion across the set is entirely relative to drum size. This is a great way to avoid selecting wildly incompatible pitches that wouldn't mesh as a group.

I'm curious if anyone with a DrumDial can duplicate any of this on their kit, with whatever heads they've currently got installed.

Thanks!

This is all predicated of course on the assumption that the pitch bend effect is what you want. I use a drum dial myself to expedite tuning but I prefer to use actual pitches with top and bottom at identical pitch. This allows the resonances of the drums to work as harmonies that sing without nasty resonance clashes and also helps reduce sympathetic vibration from setting off the snares by selecting appropriate pitches.

The pitch bend effect is also a problem on larger kits. Its much more difficult to get distinct note separation when each drum is changing pitch.

[Stixxs]

fascinating...

[atari800]

Originally Posted by FW Harper

Just bought a drum dial and tuned to your settings for single ply ambassadors over the stock clear coats on my 10, 12, and 14 DW maple toms. I finally have the sound I've been chasing after a little dampening with moongels. Works great. Thanks!

Awesome -- post a clip!

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

With your lower tom tunings, what do you do about the hi tom making the snare resonate and rattle? I like a lower snare tuning, in the G to B range, and I always get big time snare rattle from the 10" hi tom, but not the 14" low tom.

I don't have a formula for this one -- pitch bend is totally relative to drum size, so you really can't select your pitches as such. You can tweak within small degrees of those tensions, but if that doesn't do it, and you really want to "tune out" the rattle, you're probably better off just winging it with a non-bend tuning.

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

This is all predicated of course on the assumption that the pitch bend effect is what you want.

Clearly -- this is just a formula for pitch bend.

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

The pitch bend effect is also a problem on larger kits. Its much more difficult to get distinct note separation when each drum is changing pitch.

I'm actually not so much into pitch bend on large drums. The pitches get so low, it's like having four bass drums. But if you're doing a cover of Spinal Tap's "Big Bottom", go for it!

Originally Posted by Doran Palmer

My kit is 10, 12, 14, 16 toms, the DTS system as listed shows 13, 15, 16 as being available. Are these three sizes adjustable to work on all other size toms?? Didn't find the info at the site. Anyone know?? I'm assuming they are, but I hate to just assume.

No, you have to get the exact size. There's some play to accomodate different makes of drum, but it's not enough play, for example, to fit a 15" cable to a 14" drum. Anyway it's a non-issue -- they've got all the sizes you need.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by atari800

I'm actually not so much into pitch bend on large drums. The pitches get so low, it's like having four bass drums. But if you're doing a cover of Spinal Tap's "Big Bottom", go for it!

I think you are misunderstanding me. By larger I mean more drums, not bigger drums.

[atari800]

Ah, gotcha. Yes if you're laying down some Peart-inspired, around-the-kit fills I could see that getting a little indistinct.

[grannydrums]

Originally Posted by atari800

All-


Curious, I began taking DrumDial measurements as I swept through tension ranges, top and bottom. What I've found is that true, deep pitch bend only occurs at one very specific combination of batter and resonant tensions. Those DrumDial measurements are as follows:

two-ply batter over single-ply reso: 75 over 68
single-ply batter over single-ply reso: 70 over 65


I'm curious if anyone with a DrumDial can duplicate any of this on their kit, with whatever heads they've currently got installed.

Thanks!

i have just bought a drumdial and have a post on another forum asking what settings people have on their drums---this answers my question.

does it work on bass drums too???

[AudioWonderland]

Mapex 8 Remo Ambassador Suede 77 Remo Clear Ambassador 77 G
Mapex 10 Remo Ambassador Suede 75 Remo Clear Ambassador 75 D
Mapex 12 Remo Ambassador Suede 74 Remo Clear Ambassador 74 Bb
Mapex 14 Remo Ambassador Suede 74 Remo Clear Ambassador 74 F
Mapex 16 Remo Ambassador Suede 70 Remo Clear Ambassador 70 C
Mapex 22 Remo PS3 Clear 76 Remo PS3 Ebony 5" port 76

PDP 10 Remo Ambassador Coat 74 Remo Clear Ambassador 74
PDP 12 Remo Ambassador Coat 74 Remo Clear Ambassador 74
PDP 14 Remo Ambassador Coat 72 Remo Clear Ambassador 72
PDP 16 Remo Ambassador Coat 72 Remo Clear Ambassador 72
PDP 24 Remo PS3 Clear 75 Remo PS3 Ebony 5" port 75

[danbronson]

This is really interesting. I'll have to pick up a drumdial and try this out...

[danbronson]

Merry Christmas! I got a drumdial! haha

So far, on my 60s Pearl snare, I'm finding I like 88 on the top, 84 on the bottom. It's a steel drum, so it gets a bit clangy sounding, and a bit of dampening on tom seems to be the ticket.

I've been messing around on the toms, but everything sounds odd because the skins are just way too old and beat up. I'll replace them and experiment some more...

[chaseshucks]

is that for all the toms? the same numbers for all?