What makes a "good/bad" Ludwig Supraphonic

[pedrohead]

I'm in the market for a Ludwig Supraphonic for the studio, but see prices range in hundreds of dollars for what appear to be very similar drums.

Are there features or eras that really separate "good" from "bad" Supraphonics, or is it simply price variation in the market and people generally paying more for something "vintage"? Kind of a newbie on the matter. Thanks.

[jhall]

The price difference is determined by a few things.

Supra's have a few different eras and those contribute to the value, however, the shell has not changed that much.

The Supraphonic replaced the "Super".. The former is a Aluminum shell (Ludwig calls it Ludalloy) The latter was a brass shell. The Super is a welded shell, and Supraphonic was spun, one piece shell. On eBay, you will see COB (chrome over brass) Supraphonics that command high dollars. As will mint condition 60's era regular (alloy) supraphonics.
The size plays a large part in the value as well.. The 402 which is the 6.5x14 model generally is a more valuable drum.. in both shell configurations. Brass being much more rare. The 400 (5x14) model is much more common, but is a staple for most drummers. I own both sizes, and they both are great.
The B/O (blue & olive era) early 70's into the early 80's are where I see most of the 400/402 sell online. John H. Bonham (RIP) played the 402 famous, so the 402 in this era is almost always higher.. again, it is not AS common, but there were a lot of these made.. both models.
The physical condition, touched on earlier, is a contributing factor as it is in anything.
The alloy didn't take the chrome plating well, so it is well known to "pit". Meaning the chrome plating would 'un-bond' and flake off, leaving "acne".. as it is known. It doesn't affect the sound, but it is not pretty. You will see models that for whatever reason have no pitting, these obviously sell for more.. again in both models.

The later models through current.. the shell supplier has changed but the drum essentially sounds very similar. I know there will be some that will say, that one era is better than another, but i have owned and played dozens of these drums, and there is standard 'tone' apparent with both of these sized drums.

I love and play both all the time, and think they are a standard sound that people should own. Tele, Strat, Les Paul, Hollow Body.. there are snare drum equivalents.. and to me the Supraphonic is the Strat of the snare world..
Aluminum is really a good metal in a recording atmosphere.. the drum has a lot of 'front-end'.. i don't notice any harshness/darkness that can be associated with other metals, but then those traits give character. So.. the Supra can be also seen as being vanilla also.. but it is a great place to start.. can be found readily and has been used on more recordings than you/me are aware of..
I don't think you can buy a 'bad' one. The only thing I steer clear of is... the Supersensitive. I prefer the Supraphonic throw-off to the SS. It is easier with less maintenance. Snares are more readily found.. again, some may say the SS sounds more.. well.. "sensitive".. I don't I have lost anything in that department over the years.
Buy a new one.. if you want it shiny and clean.. get an old funky one.. spend a lot of money and get a clean vintage one.. I don't think you can miss.
There are a couple other factors.. like said earlier the throw-off.. but the earlier 60's had COB hoops.. so that will have an influence on the sound.. you can after market hoops.. in Steel.. or even wood that influence the drum to play and sound much different than the stock hoops..
Just figure out what you can spend.. and grab one. Either.. Both! You will love it.. and you will have a timeless sound at your fingertips.

Best of luck.

[pedrohead]

wow. thanks for all the info.

[Morbid Koala]

If you don't want to shell out the big bucks for a Supraphonic, you can get a Pearl Sensitone which is the same drum.

Ludwig let the patent expire on the Supraphonic back in the day and Pearl picked it up. I play a Supraphonic but was pretty amazed how close they sound, if not identical and for almost half the cost.

[chrisso]

Ditto jhall.
I've recorded both vintage and new Supras and found little difference.
For the sake of it I would buy a vintage one, but if you need bang for buck (why not?) I don't think you can go far wrong with any era.

[biggator6]

There's a 5x14 Blue/Olive badge Supraphonic for sale at drumforum.org right now for $125.. minor pitting (common to Supras) but DAMN that's cheap.

To answer what makes a good/bad Supra? I haven't heard a bad one yet.

[sumskilz]

The biggest difference between the good and bad sounding ones is the player.

[666666]

Originally Posted by Morbid Koala

If you don't want to shell out the big bucks for a Supraphonic, you can get a Pearl Sensitone which is the same drum.

Pearl Sensitone...??? Which one?

I actually switched to a Pearl Steel Sensitone for live use so I could keep my mint vintage Supraphonic safe in the studio. The Steel Sensitone is by far a copy of the Supra and certainly does not sound exactly the same, however it DOES capture enough of the general overall Supra sound to make it "pass" as a "Supra-substitute" for many situations.

Also, interestingly, Pearl released an Ian Paice signature model which is basically just a Steel Sensitone with tube lugs on it. Of course Paice often used a Supra back in the day... this implies that Pearl feels the Steel Sensitone shell most closely emulates a Supra.

But also note, Pearl offers an Aluminum Sensitone as well... which some might feel would be a better choice in the name of trying to emulate a Supra (since Supras were "Luddaloy" which is seemingly very much like aluminum). I have not tried an Aluminum Sensitone, but I suspect the Steel Sensitone is still closer to a real Supra anyway.

So... when you say Sensitone, shall I expect you are referring to the steel one, or aluminimum, or...??? The Sensitones also come in stainless steel, as well as brass and bronze.

Question for all: which Sensitone do you feel is best at emulating a real Supra? Steel or aluminum or stainless steel or...???

In the meantime, I'll keep using my Steel Sensitones since they certainly do the job well enough... but I still am curious if the aluminum or stainless-steel version might do it even better....??? Sensitone gurus, what say you?

[biggator6]

6666666 -
the Brass Sensitones don't sound like Supras so much - but they're awfully nice (and not real expensive!).. *cough*poormansblackbeauty*cough*

"-)

[drumzealot]

Originally Posted by Morbid Koala

If you don't want to shell out the big bucks for a Supraphonic, you can get a Pearl Sensitone which is the same drum.

Ludwig let the patent expire on the Supraphonic back in the day and Pearl picked it up. I play a Supraphonic but was pretty amazed how close they sound, if not identical and for almost half the cost.

Word.

I prefer my brass Sensitone to my ludalloy supra (which I just sold). Both sound great. Just a matter of personal taste. They both cost around $130 (the pearl was new, the supra made in 1970). I'm no expert on new snare drums but the Sensitone is a great deal.