What "vintage sounding" drum set to buy under $700?

[Quint]

I'm looking to get a drum set for my own personal use and need some help. I've been playing drums for over 15 years now, just never professionally. I picked up the guitar in high school and that became my main emphasis although I continued to play drums here and there, just always on other people's kits. Because of this, I know what sounds I like but I don't know a whole lot about the various brands/model series and features that I would want.

I'm not really into the whole "modern rock" sound (Nickelback, Creed, Linkin Park) so I don't need nor want a drum set that resonates for two minutes every time you hit it. I just want a nice, warm, round sound that can accomodate loud (John Bohnam or Keith Moon style) and quiet (Neil Young "Harvest" or folksier style) playing. Perhaps a modern example of drum sounds that I like would be Glenn Kotche's stuff with Wilco or Jack Iron's stuff with Pearl Jam. An older example would be Charlie Watt's stuff during the "Sticky Fingers" era.

Anyway, I've looked at some of the new Gretsch stuff as well some of the new Ludwig stuff. I also read that lengthy thread on the Ludwig Accent Custom "Zep Set". Those sound clips sounded great and might be an example of what I'm looking for (although I might be a little worried that the Zep Set could handle quieter stuff, or maybe it can). So what modern brands/model series (new or used) should I be looking at? Also, what about the old vintage stuff (Ludwig, Gretsch, Slingerlands, etc)? I've read that a lot of vintage sets can be picked up for the same prices as comparable new kits and sometimes for even lower prices. Oh, and I'd like to be able to do some recording with this kit so keep that in mind when you make your suggestions.

So what suggestions do you guys have? I'm looking to keep it under $700 if possible (maybe I could go over a little if I have to).

[RoundBadge]

look on ebay for old 3 ply ludwigs .you can find decent players kits for 700-1200
older WFL's can be found too..a bit more rare
Gretschs are gonna be more but can be found
ealry 70's and earlier Rogers are great too

[Quint]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

look on ebay for old 3 ply ludwigs .you can find decent players kits for 700-1200
older WFL's can be found too..a bit more rare
Gretschs are gonna be more but can be found
ealry 70's and earlier Rogers are great too

So everything you mentioned above is old or vintage right? Do you have any thoughts on newer stuff or is it going to be my best bet to just look at the old stuff for the sound and price I'm aiming for?

Are Slingerlands any good? I came across a 76' 7 piece maple Slingerland with a 16x26 bass drum for $700. Would this kit suit my needs or would it be a compromise on the sound I'm looking for?

Also, for the sound I'm looking for, it seems to be that the lower ply counts are what I should be looking for (ie., 3 ply better than 5 ply). Is that correct? And would you say that the ply count is a pretty important factor in the particular sound I'm looking for? What about any other features that are geared more towards the sound I want? I'm going to want a more round bearing edge right?

Thanks for the help.

[dadumtish]

vintage means dark and warm sounding - this comes from the mahognay / poplar 3 py shells with maples support rings and the wide rounded bearing edges .

OR old aged thin maple shells .

the bearing edge has a lot to do with it as well

I bought an old 68 ludwig super classic and got the edges redone by a pro into a vintage edge as the edges were trashed.

now it sounds woody , warm organic , and sexy .

be aware that the shells can be a bit out of round , and a bit thick , so its best to use acquairan modern vintage heads as the hoops are alot larger and slide on the shells better. . I use the thin acquairna ones as resos and normal coated ambassdadors as batters .

these were the cheapest , crappiset kits mass produced in thier day , but they sound and play like heaven.

[Quint]

Originally Posted by dadumtish

vintage means dark and warm sounding - this comes from the mahognay / poplar 3 py shells with maples support rings and the wide rounded bearing edges .

OR old aged thin maple shells .

the bearing edge has a lot to do with it as well

I bought an old 68 ludwig super classic and got the edges redone by a pro into a vintage edge as the edges were trashed.

now it sounds woody , warm organic , and sexy .

be aware that the shells can be a bit out of round , and a bit thick , so its best to use acquairan modern vintage heads as the hoops are alot larger and slide on the shells better. . I use the thin acquairna ones as resos and normal coated ambassdadors as batters .

these were the cheapest , crappiset kits mass produced in thier day , but they sound and play like heaven.

I've been hearing/reading about this whole "out of round" thing. I get what it means but how big of a deal is this to the sound? How much will it affect it and what other pitfalls come with a drum that is out of round? Also, is it something that can be corrected? It sounds like something I'll have to watch out for with the older vintage drums.

Are you saying that those Ludwigs you bought were the "cheapest, crappiest"? How much did you pay for them?

[dadumtish]

Oh I paid alot for them ! probably about 2000 dollars .
( for a kit that was a bog standard piece of crap in 1968 )

pics :

ludwig edges and kit - a set on Flickr


white pearl , refurb . with 1968 snare .
the shells are a tiny bit out of round , so normal heads are a tight squeeze on them - removing a bit of the finish peral at the edge would fix it , but i chose acquiran resos to solve that. I use normal ambassdors on top and tune medium high .

records and sounds incredible - the bass drum is magical .

if you want a drum sound that is punchy rich and full of character- get one - you wont be sorry , but dont pay as much as I did - I was a bit loose with the cash at the time ( in other words - a moron )
but I love playing this kit , I smile every time .

[Quint]

Originally Posted by dadumtish

Oh I paid alot for them ! probably about 2000 dollars .
( for a kit that was a bog standard piece of crap in 1968 )

pics :

ludwig edges and kit - a set on Flickr


white pearl , refurb . with 1968 snare .
the shells are a tiny bit out of round , so normal heads are a tight squeeze on them - removing a bit of the finish peral at the edge would fix it , but i chose acquiran resos to solve that. I use normal ambassdors on top and tune medium high .

records and sounds incredible - the bass drum is magical .

if you want a drum sound that is punchy rich and full of character- get one - you wont be sorry , but dont pay as much as I did - I was a bit loose with the cash at the time ( in other words - a moron )
but I love playing this kit , I smile every time .

Well that's the kind of sound I'm going for. I just can't afford to pay that much. I don't wanna even spend half of what you spent. How much do you think I could get a set like this for?

If that kit is too much for me, do you have any other thoughts on a kit that might fit my needs and is in my budget?

[Quint]

How are the Roger's Holiday series? Also, is there anything wrong with mixing and matching if I manage to find good deals on individual drums? I don't care if they all look the same, I just want them to sound good.

Oh, what series of WFL's should I be looking for? Also, how are the WFL's from the 50's? Actually, any drums from the 50's?

[dadumtish]

I live in ireland , and bought mine in the uk - we tend to pay more for luddy kits like these in europe anyway , and alot more for good refurbs .
everyone wants one of these kits these days . I wanted one cos I cant get the tone I want in modern drums , ( i learned to play on vintage kits as a young lad )

these kits would be allover the place in the US ,
so you should find one very cheap , just scour ebay and local ads - its when they get to europe that they rocket in value

I dont have much experience with rogers or slingerland , but if they have rounded edges and thin supported shells , they should all be similar sounding .

[Quint]

Originally Posted by dadumtish

I live in ireland , and bought mine in the uk - we tend to pay more for luddy kits like these in europe anyway , and alot more for good refurbs .
everyone wants one of these kits these days . I wanted one cos I cant get the tone I want in modern drums , ( i learned to play on vintage kits as a young lad )

these kits would be allover the place in the US ,
so you should find one very cheap , just scour ebay and local ads - its when they get to europe that they rocket in value

I dont have much experience with rogers or slingerland , but if they have rounded edges and thin supported shells , they should all be similar sounding .

Thanks man, I'll check those Ludwigs out.

Oh, by thin supported shells, you mean 3 ply right? Or, are there thin shells with more or less layers?

[dadumtish]

3ply !

[Quint]

So would something like that new Ludwig Accent Custom Zep Set be "too much" drum for recording, given the type of music that I mentioned I'm aiming for? I know it won't have a problem being big, I'm just worried that it will still be big even when I don't want it to be. I don't need pounding bass drum on folk music, know what I mean? I'm asking because I found one of these Zep kits that's less than a year old for $500 and it comes with gig bags for everything.

Maybe a good middle of the road kit would be better with something like a 22" kick?

[RoundBadge]

I have a line on a pristine,mint/showroom condition Ludwig white marine pearl 3 ply 4 piece kit in LA if your interested.will be more than 7 bills less than 2k .

[Quint]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I have a line on a pristine,mint/showroom condition Ludwig white marine pearl 3 ply 4 piece kit in LA if your interested.will be more than 7 bills less than 2k .

Hey RoundBadge, thanks for the info. If money wasn't gonna be an issue, I'd definitely be interested. However, I've got other slutty stuff that I need to buy so I've gotta stay on target with this one. I appreciate the help though. That kit's probably gonna be in the $1200 to $1500 range isn't it? I've been looking around and found some decent 3 ply Ludwigs on ebay that might suit my needs. As long as they sound good and work together sonically, I don't care if they even match, aesthetically speaking, since they're only for me anyway.

[RoundBadge]

Yes.no worries.
you could even put together a kit of "orphan" drums as well.just buy piece by piece.
Kinda cool having a frankienkitthumbsup


..

[Quint]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Yes.no worries.
you could even put together a kit of "orphan" drums as well.just buy piece by piece.
Kinda cool having a frankienkitthumbsup


..

Yeah I agree. A frankenkit could be kind of cool and that way I could wait until individual drums come down the pipes that are really what I'm looking for instead of making compromises to get a complete kit.

I had already kind of considered this but I did have one worry. I'm a little concerned with toms that mount on the bass drum. There could be issues getting the toms of various drum kits to mount on an unmatched bass drum. Would that be that big of a problem to overcome or are there potential pitfalls in this? I guess I could always just put the "rack" toms on their own individual stands and arc them over or around the bass drum.

[coprock]

I just purchased a minty early 70's Slingerland kit 22", 13", 16" and matching 14x5" snare for $1,000 on ebay. As an owner of several vintage gretsch and rogers kits, I am most impressed with these drums. Closer in sound to the Rogers, the Slingerlands have a wide open sound with great attack. Impressive craftsmanship and excellent chrome. Very little pitting on drums nearly 40 years old. I like the setomatic tom holder. Like the Rogers swivomatic it has a little give to and lets the rack tom resonate nicely.

Slingerlands don't seem to be as collectible and thus seem to cost less than gretsch, rogers or ludwig. I am sure you could find a kit for less than $700 with a few scratches on it.

I don't recommend constructing an orphan kit, unless the drums of the same manufacturer and design with only the finish varying.

[HeavyG]

Gretsch's Catalina Club line is outstanding and is definitely chock full of vintage mojo and tone. You can get some cool vintage finishes, too (the alien blue is killer!). Ringo and Charlie would be proud...and so will your wallet, as most of these kits go from $500-1000 US.

[Quint]

Originally Posted by HeavyG

Gretsch's Catalina Club line is outstanding and is definitely chock full of vintage mojo and tone. You can get some cool vintage finishes, too (the alien blue is killer!). Ringo and Charlie would be proud...and so will your wallet, as most of these kits go from $500-1000 US.

Yeah, out of brand new drums that I've looked at, the Gretsch Catalina series and some of the Ludwigs were the only ones that really interested me and were also in my price range. Still, the price and instant mojo factor do have me interested in the older vintage kits.

I'd love to be able to sit down on a kit and have it sound like instant "Levon Helm". By the way, anybody know what kind of kit he played on back during The Band's peak period?

[Hazer]

Check out Yamaha Rydeens or Stage Customs. They're made of Phillipine Mahogany (soft, stringy hardwood), the SCs having an inner ply of something better IIRC. They definitely have a vintage vibe going on. You can pick up a set for under $500.

If buying used, always budget for having bearing edges redone. Softer wood edges and sticktips don't mix.

[Quint]

So today I just bought a 1969 4 piece Sonor kit (kick, 2 toms, snare) along with a Paiste 2002 (red label) 20" ride and Paiste 2002 (red label) set of 14" hats for a total of $700. What do you guys think of these old Sonor kits? I plan on changing the heads out with some coated Emperors but, even with the old heads, it sounds pretty damn good once I got the drums tuned up. I'm pretty happy and can't wait to swap out the heads.

Any thoughts or things to change out or watch out for on these old Sonors?

[HeavyG]

Vintage Sonor? Even non vintage Sonor...Love, Love, Love them...nicely done. I have a vintage bell brass snare of theirs...absolutely brilliant. Bravo on the 2002s, too...smoking metal, bro. Now go knock us out behind those things...thumbsup

[Quint]

Originally Posted by HeavyG

Vintage Sonor? Even non vintage Sonor...Love, Love, Love them...nicely done. I have a vintage bell brass snare of theirs...absolutely brilliant. Bravo on the 2002s, too...smoking metal, bro. Now go knock us out behind those things...thumbsup

Thanks man. I'll see what I can do.

[biggator6]

Run, don't walk... RUN over to drumforum.org right now.

A guy has a 1971 Ludwig Black Panther kit for sale on there for $850 in NICE condition.. 3-ply.. 22/12/13/16

DrumForum.org • View topic - Panther's are sold


... wow, too late - they just got sold.

But watch that site - there's always some good deals on vintage drums.

[Ryan Earnhardt]

The yamaha hip gigs have rounded baring edges to them, giving them a more vintage sound. They are a little hard to tune sometimes.

[RoundBadge]

An amazing old WFL kit just went for 800.00
These are great drums for the vintage recording vibe

WFL Ludwig 22, 13, 16 Kit w/ Matching Buddy Rich Snare - eBay (item 280264704890 end time Sep-14-08 19:00:00 PDT)

[Quint]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

An amazing old WFL kit just went for 800.00
These are great drums for the vintage recording vibe

WFL Ludwig 22, 13, 16 Kit w/ Matching Buddy Rich Snare - eBay (item 280264704890 end time Sep-14-08 19:00:00 PDT)

Yeah, those WFL's are pretty cool drums. No opinion on the Sonors I bought? I figured you'd have an opinion on those for sure.

[RoundBadge]

Sorry,not a lot of experience with the older Sonors.
only the newer Delite series which for a more modern vibe sound great thumbsup

[zulusound]

Buy my kit. Awesome sounding and looking Slingerland / Ludwig kit for $699

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...ml#post3525982