Brushes/rute

[Saudade]

Is there a site where I can hear which type of brushes / rute sounds like what with which type of playing style?

I am trying to get a pair for tracking a song that I have, but I want to know which type of sound will suit that song. The drummer doesn't normally play jazz so he doesn't have a pair and almost as clueless as me about brushes .

Thanks for any insight.

[Nutmeg II.]

Originally Posted by Saudade

Is there a site where I can hear which type of brushes / rute sounds like what with which type of playing style?

I am trying to get a pair for tracking a song that I have, but I want to know which type of sound will suit that song. The drummer doesn't normally play jazz so he doesn't have a pair and almost as clueless as me about brushes .

Thanks for any insight.

One needs training to play with brushes.
You'll not gone get any good results, the drummer never did play with brushes.
And fiddeling some hours with them doesn't count at all.
Good luke with it.

Now if you want to use em like you would use a stick (wack the drum)...
Brushes give you a thud, wile rodes give you more inisial attack.
The thicker the single pins in the rod are, the more stick like they'll sound.

[earldrum]

Originally Posted by Saudade

Is there a site where I can hear which type of brushes / rute sounds like what with which type of playing style?

I am trying to get a pair for tracking a song that I have, but I want to know which type of sound will suit that song. The drummer doesn't normally play jazz so he doesn't have a pair and almost as clueless as me about brushes .

Thanks for any insight.

Hi Saudade:

When making this choice you have to decide what sound you are going after. Is the sound a traditional jazz brush style (like a swing/jazz playing) or are you trying to get the "rock brush" sound - a la "Russ Kunkel on James Taylor's "Fire and Rain." Russ actually used real brushes on that track, but I have seen him use Regal Tip, Blasticks in concert (these are like Rods or Rutes).

My choice would be based on the sound you are going after first. If the part can be played with sticks but you are looking for a lighter sound then choose the rods, rutes, blasticks. If you are going for the sweeping motion sound on a snare head then use real brushes. The latter will requires the drummer to have developed some brush playing technique to make it sound right.

I have an example of me playing rods on my esessions.com page (search Earl Bennett). The song is called Takin A Train Home. It has the rods type sound played on a snare drum.

I hope this helps,

[Saudade]

thanks for the advice.

ok I have attached 2 mp3 extracts to help you guys help me

Brushy.mp3 is the drum track I have programmed with DFH C&V for the song I am recording. I hate the brush sounds. It's too "thudy" maybe because they miked the bottom of the snare. I want something that is light and more hi-mids, because it is a jazz song and the focus is not really on the downbeats kick and snare. The drumtrack is more a background thing...with the double bass more upfront.

But anyway I am gonna use a real drum track. So...

Brushy2.mp3 is taken from a tune. The brush snare sound I want for my song is probably very close to this (note the snare on the right channel). Even the kick (boomy jazz kick) is the sound I am after for my song.

Any clue what brush/rute can make it sound like brushy2.mp3, and what miking techniques will help? I am thinking of doing it Glyn Johns style, with the kick mic further away for more room style.

But I want to buy the brushes first and give them to my drummer so he can have some practice with it It's also a gift for him to make up for the meagre session fees I am paying him to play Ahhh it's alright he's a friend

[earldrum]

Originally Posted by Saudade

Any clue what brush/rute can make it sound like brushy2.mp3, and what miking techniques will help? I am thinking of doing it Glyn Johns style, with the kick mic further away for more room style.

But I want to buy the brushes first and give them to my drummer so he can have some practice with it It's also a gift for him to make up for the meagre session fees I am paying him to play Ahhh it's alright he's a friend

Hi Saudade:

There is no way that you will get that swishy brush sound with rutes or rods. Only wire brushes will make that sound on the brushy2.mp3. Also the brushes have to be played with a certain touch to sound right. There is a great drummer DVD called "The art of playing brushes," you might want to get that for your drummer friend as well as the brushes. Watching and listening to great brush player is helpful as well. Then practice the basic pattern and go from there.

But I have to be honest I've been playing drums over 30 years and there is no right way to play brushes it is a sound and feel thing. It has taken me many years to feel happy playing brushes and i know there are guys that are monster brush players out there. Just remember that when you get the right sound you will know it, when its not the right sound it will be very obvious to your ears.

It funny that I actually did a brush playing session today. Here is what we used to mic the snare: AKG 414 on top, AT 4033 CL on the bottom, Earthworks omni condensers for OHs. I believe he used Millennial HV3 preamps. I played the track really light and swishy and it worked nicely. This mic setup brought out the high end and made the swish crisper. The kick mic was a LDC as well which gave the fatter sound when the drum was tuned more open and boomy (then on a rock session). I played the kick very lightly, I actually "feathered" the kick drum. I wish I had a rough mix of the drum track, but I did but the session was at my friends studio - I'll see what I can do about posting something in the near future.

I hope this helps you on your quest for getting that sound,

[Saudade]

Originally Posted by earldrum

Hi Saudade:

There is no way that you will get that swishy brush sound with rutes or rods. Only wire brushes will make that sound on the brushy2.mp3.

yeah I kinda guessed. So...the next question. Which wire brushes do you recommend? A browse through Vic Firth's site shows not many choices but they talk in terms of spread....weight and thickness of the wires. Which one would be relatively easier to handle and versatile at the same time?

Thanks Earl for all the tips so far. I'll try to get that DVD...let's see if we have that in the library

[earldrum]

Originally Posted by Saudade

yeah I kinda guessed. So...the next question. Which wire brushes do you recommend? A browse through Vic Firth's site shows not many choices but they talk in terms of spread....weight and thickness of the wires. Which one would be relatively easier to handle and versatile at the same time?

Thanks Earl for all the tips so far. I'll try to get that DVD...let's see if we have that in the library

Hi Saudade:

My personal favorite brushes are the Regal Tip Classic 583R wire brush or Vater's "Wire Tap" Retractable brushes. I have never used the Vic Firth brushes (except checking them out in the music store), but the purple brushes seem a little light in weight for my taste. I have found that the spread should be as wide as possible to get the brush sound, but when I was less experienced I always had the spread smaller because it seemed to work better (i.e., easier to deal with the feel of the brush).

Remember there is no right way to play brushes - it all comes down to getting the right sound and groove which takes practice and listening to develop. Some good modern sounding CDs that have nice brush playing on them would be Nora Jones or Chris Botti's recent releases within the last few years. I was listening to Nora's grammy award winning record that had lots of different types of brush playing on it yesterday. Its a great album for modern brush playing.
thumbsup

[joeq]

don't forget you will need coated heads to swish the brushes on

clear heads are too smooth, without the friction, there is no sound.

[Saudade]

Thanks a million guys, I feel so much more equipped with the knowledge to get closer to the sound I want now.