17th March 2008
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#1 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 213
Thread Starter | Supraphonic vs. Acrolite?
Hi, Is the Arcolite and Suprophonic made from the same shell? Thanks, Don
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17th March 2008
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#2 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Mar 2006 Location: New Mexico
Posts: 289
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The answer is generally yes, from the early 60's until about 84-85 although the ludalloy is chromed on the supraphonic. The old supraphonics were COB and the acro prototypes had all aluminum hardware (hoops, lugs) and had reliability issues.
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18th March 2008
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#3 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: New York
Posts: 12,785
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I have an acrolite that seems to weigh about half of what my supra weighs
__________________
. “What you ask about is music. What you like is sound. Now music and sound are akin, but they are not the same.”
— Confucius |
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18th March 2008
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#4 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,067
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Acros have less lugs and no chrome - otherwise, they're basically the same.
The weight difference is likely the two extra lugs and the chrome.. chrome is heavy.
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19th March 2008
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Carlsbad Ca.
Posts: 1,765
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An 8 lug Acro sounds a lot different than a supra.
Best to have both. 6.5 supra gets 70% of all duties done in my place. I love my acro for quieter tracks, and for gigs ( quieter) and drier.
cz
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19th March 2008
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#6 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 213
Thread Starter |
Thanks for the responses guys. Sounds like a supra and an acro would cover a lot of bases.
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19th March 2008
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#7 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 296
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The Acrolites shells were fashioned from aluminum and the Supraphonics were (as previously noted) fashioned from brass; in the early sixties they switched to a copper alloy to save money. The Supraphonics were chrome-plated and the Acrolites were not.
Both instruments sound wonderful. I always preferred the Acrolite. In the vintage drum world it is a common perception that if the Supraphonic was rare it would be extremely high-priced. It is perhaps the most recorded snare drum in rock music history and it was the flagship of the company for years.
Wm. F. Ludwig Jr. told me that they always tried to hide the fact that the Acrolite was of the same quality as the Supraphonic (though they had their distinct tonal flavours) as the price points were disparate and the profit margin on the Supraphonic was greater.
You can readily find used examples of both models at very good prices. It is good to know that exceptional instruments can be had for little money.
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19th March 2008
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#8 | | 500 series nutjob
Joined: Nov 2004 Location: 500 series Guru SKANK! ; )
Posts: 11,297
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i have two Acrolites, ( love them, thank fellow slutz for the recommendation ), the shells seem to be of a different finish, did they just polish the older ones?
i have seen a few older ones that almost look chrome.
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8th May 2008
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#9 | | Gear Head
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 62
| Quote:
Originally Posted by vitreouswindows The Acrolites shells were fashioned from aluminum and the Supraphonics were (as previously noted) fashioned from brass; in the early sixties they switched to a copper alloy to save money. The Supraphonics were chrome-plated and the Acrolites were not. | This is true that some Supras were made of brass, but later they were changed to aluminum. I can't give an exact date, but I believe it was late sixties. This is why they're plagued with pitting -- aluminum doesn't take chrome very well.
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8th May 2008
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#10 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2004 Location: The Land Behind The Zion Curtain
Posts: 1,120
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazer This is true that some Supras were made of brass, but later they were changed to aluminum. I can't give an exact date, but I believe it was late sixties. This is why they're plagued with pitting -- aluminum doesn't take chrome very well. | I have to wonder about this. I have a early 70's olive badge acrolite that I have tweaked out and it sounds fantastic. I also have a pre serial Supra that is an amazing drum but sounds totally different than my Acrolite. It is chromed but is aluminimum as far as I can tell. (A magnet won't stick to it) It has more of a Black Beauty sound than the Acrolite will ever do.
Both are great drums and on both I have changed out the strainers to a 30 or 32 strand Pure sound and it balances out both drums great. FWIW I hate bottom snare mics and with the bigger strainers it gives me enough of the snare sound that I don't feel like I need the bottom mic at all ever. Of course I have kept the original strainers but I wouldn't ever put them back on unless I sell the drum.
Michael Greene
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23rd May 2008
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 821
| Supra vs. Acro
...I remember being in 3rd grade band in the early 70s...and the other guy who played snare had a Ludwig Acrolite and I had a Slingerland (Radio King, I think)...what I do know is that his Ludwig sounded so much better to my ears. I then figured out that just about every snare (even if it isn't made by Ludwig) mimics the Supra, Acro or Black Beauty. Kenny Aronoff or Gadd gives Yamaha or Tama a Black Beauty and says "make me something like this". I researched setups of the pros and saw how many guys used Ludwigs...and those "holy grail" albums where I said to myself "I love that snare sound...it is probably a Ludwig".
But I knew that back in 3rd grade.
As for the shell composition...it depends on the year. Ludwig changed their shell from brass to spun aluminum for cost reasons. As similar as they are...they sound decidedly different. Supras remain metal shelled...Black Beautys are brass. The consensus is that Supras and Black Beautys are the holy grail...but Acros are beautiful, unique and almost as amazing (for a fraction of the cost). Shhhhh...it will drive the prices up.
__________________ Nelly Drummer, Vocalist, Project Studio Stunt Pilot
“My vocation is more in composition really than anything else - building up harmonies using the guitar, orchestrating the guitar like an army, a guitar army.” Jimmy Page
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29th October 2008
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#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2008 Location: MD
Posts: 754
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i have 3 of them!! just bought my 3rd one 2day for $20!! got 2 acrolites and a supra. yaaaayy me!! |
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5th November 2008
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#13 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,067
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I've got a 70's Acro, a 70's 5x14 Supra and a 70's 6.5x14 Supersensitive.
Damn, they're all great sounding snares. I've got the 6.5 cranked way up, JB style, and the Acro low & fat. The 3rd one sits right in between.
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15th December 2008
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#14 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Canada
Posts: 658
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How do the newer/black&white badge Acro's compare to the old ones?
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3rd January 2009
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#15 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Dec 2007 Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 285
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ive got 2 acro's and one supra...'
traded a arcolite for a supraphonic at a local school in the theatre department (they used it as a prop)... that acro had horrible pitting and broken drum heads but i guess they loved it as much as a prop as i like the supra for recording  .
love em all but much prefer my mid sixties rogers wood powertone.
well that and my perfect condition gretsch wood round badge snare got at a estate sale for $15 with the orginal stand. (sorry but sometimes i just have to brag)
there's something about wood snares that always sounds way betters to me.
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3rd January 2009
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#16 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,067
| Quote:
Originally Posted by pootkao How do the newer/black&white badge Acro's compare to the old ones? | They're the same. They haven't really changed them in.. well, pretty much ever. Not in any significant way anyway.
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11th January 2009
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#17 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 30
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The chrome on the supra-phonic changes the sound. Supra-phonics sound similar to the acrolites but a little brighter with better stick definition, though still mushy compared to a lot of drums. I like the sound of both but prefer the old 1959 chrome over brass supra-phonic I have which sounds very similar to a black beauty.
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13th January 2009
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#18 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,452
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I have a good condition 70s Acrolite but the sound is really piercing (especially when strunk very hard). I think it has an Evens power center head.
Any tweaks for snare drum that you like?? Any tips on how to get a better sound out of an Acrolite?
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13th January 2009
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#19 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Pennsyltucky
Posts: 2,681
| Weird Science Quote:
Originally Posted by MJGreene Audio It is chromed but is aluminimum as far as I can tell. (A magnet won't stick to it) It has more of a Black Beauty sound than the Acrolite will ever do. | A magnet won't stick to brass either. Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyG Supras remain metal shelled...Black Beautys are brass. | Brass is a metal. Quote:
Originally Posted by sumskilz The chrome on the supra-phonic changes the sound. | Not enough to mention. A turn of one lug will change the tone/timbre much more than the chrome on the shell.
Over and over I read this myth in forums.
I've already had this discussion in this forum: see this thread: Couple of quick Ludwig Supraphonic Questions.
In a nutshell, it's all about the additional lugs on the Supra:
- The additional weight imposed by the two extra lugs (which are indeed quite heavy) alters the way the shell vibrates.
- The additional lugs restrict hoop movement (vibrations) thus forcing more energy to go directly into the shell. An exaggeration of this effect can be heard by using a die-cast hoop. Those things don't flex at all, and the resulting timbre is highly focused and punchy.
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13th January 2009
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#20 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 30
| Quote:
Not enough to mention. A turn of one lug will change the tone/timbre much more than the chrome on the shell.
Over and over I read this myth in forums.
I've already had this discussion in this forum, and won't go into it again here. See this thread:Couple of quick Ludwig Supraphonic Questions.
In a nutshell, it's all about the additional lugs on the Supra:
- The additional weight imposed by the two extra lugs (which are indeed quite heavy) alters the way the shell vibrates.
- The additional lugs restrict hoop movement (vibrations) thus forcing more energy to go directly into the shell. An exaggeration of this effect can be heard by using a die-cast hoop. Those things don't flex at all, and the resulting timbre is highly focused and punchy.
| Well the chrome on the shell should make it slightly stiffer, but the sound difference I hear is exactly what you're describing. So now that I think about it, I agree that those two extra lugs have to be making more of a difference than the chrome.
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13th January 2009
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#21 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2004 Location: The Land Behind The Zion Curtain
Posts: 1,120
| Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbowes I have a good condition 70s Acrolite but the sound is really piercing (especially when strunk very hard). I think it has an Evens power center head.
Any tweaks for snare drum that you like?? Any tips on how to get a better sound out of an Acrolite? | Try using an Evans Dry head, coated. I found that it really tamed my Acrolite in a really nice way.
Also just for sound try using Pure-Sound strainers and get some that are pretty wide. For me it balanced out the drum really well.
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13th January 2009
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#22 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Pennsyltucky
Posts: 2,681
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MJGreene Audio Also just for sound try using Pure-Sound strainers and get some that are pretty wide. For me it balanced out the drum really well. | Pure-Sounds are kickin' |
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14th January 2009
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#23 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 30
| Quote:
Try using an Evans Dry head, coated. I found that it really tamed my Acrolite in a really nice way.
Also just for sound try using Pure-Sound strainers and get some that are pretty wide. For me it balanced out the drum really well.
| +1 thumbsup on both counts
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14th January 2009
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#24 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2004 Location: The Land Behind The Zion Curtain
Posts: 1,120
| Quote:
Originally Posted by sumskilz +1 thumbsup on both counts | Just a little background. I actually found out about the Evans Dry heads when I bought my Supraphonic. It came with the Evans dry head on it and I tried a couple of other heads but really liked what the Evans head did. I wasn't as happy with my Acrolite as I wanted to be and just for kicks threw another Evans Dry on there. It pulled it together really nice.
Sooo. Thats the long winded happy accident of how I figured it out.
Michael Greene
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