Some advice for a novice

[GeorgeJ]

I posted this in the low end forum - Didn't realize there was one just for drums -

Little by little I'm putting together a studio and was looking at add drum set The room is 16 x 22 with 9ft ceilings. It's a basement and the walls are just insulated and rocked. So I know I have long way to go. But I was looking to build a carpeted platform and set the kit up. The space will end being more of a rehearsal studio for local talent, but having the option to track is always a treat. I'm using a 002r, a Meek TwinQ, and some SM57's for now (just starting out!).

So how do I keep the noise down but not loose the sound (does that make sense).

Also, what's a good budget drum set-up to get. Budget is $750 range.

[CB_Photo]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJ

The room is 16 x 22 with 9ft ceilings. It's a basement...

Wow! A basement with 9ft ceilings! That must be nice. My basement has 6.5ft ceilings.

what's a good budget drum set-up to get. Budget is $750 range.

This isn't much for a drum kit. In this price range it's best to look for a good, used 4-piece kit (snare, bass, 2 toms) with hi-hat and a couple of cymbals. To give you an idea of kit prices, I just sold my Sonor birch kit for $850 -- without cymbals, throne or bass pedal. The guy that bought it sold his Tama Rockstar fusion kit for $650 -- without cymbals or throne.

Your space sounds great. Good luck!

[biggator6]

Budget is $750 range

You can get a great kit for $750... but good cymbals will definitely cost you more.

You can pick up old Ludwigs, Slingerlands, etc for less than that... especially if they're 'player' drums rather than collectible (mismatching or not too pretty).

I paid less than that for a very good condition set of Premier Signias a few months back (look at the 'Glyn Johns' thread in 'low end theory' for pictures).. those were probably in the 3k range new in the mid-90's.. I actually paid $700 including shipping and a full set of new heads for the whole kit (about $150 worth of heads).

That being said - cymbals will run you.. you'll save a TON buying them used, but they're still expensive. A set of hats, 2 crashes and a ride (decent quality) will probably run you another 400-500.. or you can pick up something like a Sabian B8 package to start with and replace them over time.

Keep an eye over at the for sale section at drumforum.org ... also troll craigslist, there are always deals on drums. The drumforum guys may help you put together a nice kit, too.. they're helpful like us gearslutz.
"-)

[Superdrumskills]

I would go with a Mapex pro M they sound bitchin it will depend on what kind of deals your local pro shop will give you i picked up a brand new one with some good Zils for about 1500 bucks not to bad for a bad ass kit in my opinion. Though its not in your price range I thought I would at least tell you that option.

If you cant go with that I would go with a used Gretch or something like that.....but you would have to look around for a good one.

[GeorgeJ]

Yeah we're lucky with the 9ft ceilings. Thanks for the advice. I want to end up with a live room that will be a nice place to play. I was up on the zzsounds site and the guitarcenter site looking this set. It's poplar not birch or maple. I wouldn't know the difference yet.

Tama IS52C Imperialstar from zZounds.com!

All opinions appreciated.
George

[joeq]

If you do build a drum riser (after treating the room) be careful not to turn it into a big hollow resonating box. You should stuff it good.

Also, do not anchor it to the floor, staple carpet to the underside and let it simply float on top of your floor.

I find risers are good for the drummer's ergonomics sometimes. Also if your mic stands can reach the drums from OFF the riser, you have fewer vibrations coming through the stands.

[sirthought]

+1 on the Mapex... I own a DW kit, a Yamaha, and a very cheap Mapex. And I play the Mapex all the time. I get a lot of strange looks but plenty of compliments on the sound.

Mapex... Either Pro M or the M.
Best bang for the buck without a doubt. You get very good (good, not the best) drums that play well. The heads they come with are decent, and no one should ever complain about their included hardware.

I also think the Pacific kits made by DW are decent if that's what your budget is. If you can get a Maple kit for under $1K it's not too bad. They also come with good hardware.

The Gretch Catalina Club drums are fun to play. They might be cheapest of these.

I'm sure pro drummers might flame me for this, but it is really about the playing, as most of the drum tones are EQ'd and fiddled with in the mix. Just make sure the things are tuned correctly and there are no obnoxious rattles or rings. Most problems with lower-end kits are the crappy hardware that cause sound issues. When you get into high-end instruments, people can tell a difference in quality. But for you now there are plenty of kits that $750 can buy and then beg your drummer friends to hand down to you their old cymbals.

Good luck!

[biggator6]

I'm sure pro drummers might flame me for this, but it is really about the playing, as most of the drum tones are EQ'd and fiddled with in the mix.

..not to mention sample-replaced.

[drumzealot]

There's tons of advice about buying a good set on a tight budget in this forum. Search a bit and you'll find some golden advice. You'll be well served to understand what to look for in a quality drum rather than a certain brand/model. This will give you more options.

The drum riser is a good idea if the floor is not 100% free of water including passing humidity from the ground underneath. The basement in my house has 6'2" ceilings and I built a 2" high riser just to keep my drums off the floor.

You'll also greatly benefit from building bass traps for the corners and maybe some diffusers for the ceilings and walls.

Originally Posted by GeorgeJ

I posted this in the low end forum - Didn't realize there was one just for drums -

Little by little I'm putting together a studio and was looking at add drum set The room is 16 x 22 with 9ft ceilings. It's a basement and the walls are just insulated and rocked. So I know I have long way to go. But I was looking to build a carpeted platform and set the kit up. The space will end being more of a rehearsal studio for local talent, but having the option to track is always a treat. I'm using a 002r, a Meek TwinQ, and some SM57's for now (just starting out!).

So how do I keep the noise down but not loose the sound (does that make sense).

Also, what's a good budget drum set-up to get. Budget is $750 range.

[steveschizoid]

Quote:
I'm sure pro drummers might flame me for this, but it is really about the playing, as most of the drum tones are EQ'd and fiddled with in the mix.

Originally Posted by biggator6

..not to mention sample-replaced.

Attitudes like this are exactly why they are sample replaced. When drummers insist on using old heads, when they just have a lame sounding set - you do what you can, but if you're a reasonably serious engineer, why would you want to reach for $150 software with samples that everyone has access to when you've spent tens of thousands of dollars on mics, pres, consoles, room treatment etc? Don't get me wrong, I think drumagog is great. I like to sample the kit that I am about to record with my best mics, then replace the performances to taste. I have certainly used it to replace drums that look and sound like they still have their first set of heads on them. But you can't replace the overhead and room mics, and you can't make a lame set with old heads sound like a well maintained, killer set of drums. Not to mention the fact that replacing one sound with another that bears only a passing resemblence to the original, and trying to make it sound natural, is usually a huge pain in the ass. Sheesh.

There is some good advice in this thread. Do what you can with your your set , your room, your mics, pre amps - build slowly and steadily. But don't just blow it off and assume you can fix it after its recorded. That's just silly. I wish I could have back all the hours and days I have spent trying to make crappy recordings sound good.

[sirthought]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

But don't just blow it off and assume you can fix it after its recorded. That's just silly. I wish I could have back all the hours and days I have spent trying to make crappy recordings sound good.

Well, in my defense, that's not at all what I said. You didn't quote the part about making sure the drums sound their best. I just don't think people need to have their heads up their arse about having a really high-end kit, because often the tone is played with after tracking. No one can deny that EQ won't be a possibility.

You still need decent heads, be in tune (most important), and make sure the hardware (lugs, mounts) isn't so bad it effects the sound. The better sound you get initially the happier everyone will be in the end.

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by sirthought

Well, in my defense, that's not at all what I said.

Sorry about that. I really didn't mean to be so bellicose.

Originally Posted by sirthought

You didn't quote the part about making sure the drums sound their best.

sorry about that as well, but the part I did quote really struck a nerve.

Originally Posted by sirthought

I just don't think people need to have their heads up their arse about having a really high-end kit, because often the tone is played with after tracking. No one can deny that EQ won't be a possibility.

Absolutely, but the fact that EQ will most likely be used is irrelevant to the quality of the instrument you are using to make music. EQ is used for a plethora of reasons: carving a niche, compensating for a mic or preamp,
compensating for the sound of the room, artistic manipulation - the dynamic use of frequency etc., but it starts with the sound you have to work with - e.g. you can shelve the high frequency if you feel there is too much, but (as is the case with old drum heads and guitar strings) you can't add what isn't there, you can only subtract the lows. and it's difficult, if not impossible to change (for the better) the sonic fingerprint of an instrument. You can destroy it, make it really small, distort it, echo it, but that's not what is typically done with drums. You can't EQ a Les Paul to make it sound like a Strat

Originally Posted by sirthought

You still need decent heads, be in tune (most important), and make sure the hardware (lugs, mounts) isn't so bad it effects the sound. The better sound you get initially the happier everyone will be in the end.

Given that, mine may have been a bit of a straw man argument, but if someone wants a "high end kit" (and can afford it), why does that neccessarily imply they have their head up their arse? Of course, you always have to make the best use of the tools at hand - high end or dirt cheap - that's what music and recording have always been about.
My 8 year old twins have a drum set - started out as a toy, but I've been gradually adding to it. They got their first high hat for Christmas, and their first (real) snare and cymbals for their birthday. One of them just can't get enough of it - he just glories in the sound. THe snare cost me $75 - but it's a gretch, and it doesn't sound bad. The cymbals are a zildjian ZBT i think - the entry level. I am a guitar/keyboard player by the way - not a very good drummer. Any way, the new drums are so much better than what they had that it is a total wonderland for them. Their kick cost $2 at a yard sale. The one is pretty damn good for an 8 year old. But he has gotten a lot better since I got them their new drums.
So I guess my point is that separating tone, power, sound, from performance and inspiration is like getting laid when you have a cold - you can do it, but it's just a lot better when you can actually smell the pussy

[sirthought]

Hey Andy,

I think people should get the instrument that works best for them, whether it's high end or entry level. I own high end. I own cheap-o stuff. No one has their head up anything just for wanting or owning any particular class of instrument. Some, however, look down on more affordable stuff as just not cutting it. With drums, IMO, it's just not too hard to pay attention to some basic important rules and still get where you're going without breaking the bank.

I just wanted to encourage the original poster that he should feel comfortable with his budget.

[GeorgeJ]

Ok after reading all your posts as well as speaking with drummer friends - the budget should get me started building a decent setup. Most recommended to go "used" for a better value. So this weekend's quest will be local buylines/pennysaver detail.

On another note I just picked up a bunch of MoreMe headphones from Mercenary.
Nice people and great service BTW. I was surprised at how "usable" the headphones are. Thanks again. G

[biggator6]

go "used" for a better value

Great advice... if it were me - I'd go over to drumforum.org and start looking in the classifieds there... and search craigslist - not just your local one, but all over the place (hint* use google - site:*************** ....)

I'd look for some older Ludwigs.. preferably the 3-ply maples over the later 6-ply - those are as world-class a drum as you'll find... record GREAT.. and can be had for $400-600 as long as it's not a collectible color/size kit... a common color in 20/13/16 should be fairly cheap. Clubdates or standards even cheaper.